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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: down2earthlandscaper on May 26, 2015, 12:51:13 AM
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I'm on the fence between Mix Pre-D and USB Pre-2
Does anyone know what the difference is between the preamps on these?
The Sound Devices website states this about the USB Pre-2:
USBPre 2 includes two discrete-transistor microphone preamps with 24-bit converters and sampling rates up to 192 kHz. These preamplifiers provide the highest performance in any portable interface. Their topology is shared with Sound Devices' award-winning 744T Digital Audio Recorder.
Does the Mix Pre-D actually have different preamps?
How is the sound going to differ between the two?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm really tempted by Acidjack's USB Pre-2, but I also could go with a new Mix Pre-D…..
Decisions decisions :-\
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The MixPre has input transformers to increase gain for dialogue. They're colorless to my ears. Many folks use attenuators to step down the input gain (I do). I'm not sure if the USB Pre does or not. The main difference is whether you want to use the USB out or want full sized RCAs (USB pre) or a miniplug. I've been happy with using the stereo mini out with a right angled cable.
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Also I believe the MixPre-D can be run on internal batteries while you must use an external battery with the USB-Pre 2.
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Both products are great. I'm not sure I can tell any difference (by memory) of the two in terms of resulting sound quality (assuming same mics, etc.)
The Mix is noticeably smaller: I'd say about 20-25% smaller. Great for battery-run situations and recording to something like a portable recorder. You can also record to your computer, so I suppose this makes it more flexible. But if you are recording to your computer almost all the time, then the USB-Pre is probably wiser and it runs off of computer-energy.
Probably the big decision here is based on knowing more about your other equipment and the way you'll be recording.
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Does the Pre-D have a D/A converter? The USB Pre-2 does and could be used in your playback too.
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I'd suggest pm'ing acidjack. I'm pretty sure he's been inside and out of both and knows the preamps well. If I'm not mistaken, they do have different vintage sound devices preamps in them, but please don't take this as gospel.
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I have much more hands-on with the MixPre series as opposed to the USBPre, but to add my .02 to this thread:
- The MixPre-D (and original MixPre) utilizes Lundahl input transformers whereas the USBPre2 does not. As I understand it, the purpose of these transformers is to isolate and balance the incoming microphone signal; by design they are supposed to be transparent and not impart a "flavor" to the sound.
- The MixPre can be run on internal batteries (two AAs) or an external power supply; USBPre is external power only. However, the MixPre-D needs a minimum of 10v external as opposed to the 5v that the USBPre requires.
- Both devices have A/D and D/A converters and can be used as an external soundcard/headphone amp for a computer.
- The USBPre2 has both S/PDIF coaxial and optical, making it a little more digi-friendly for many of the recorders we use. The MixPre-D has AES digital out which, according to Sound Devices, is also supposed to be compatible with the S/PDIF protocol but it can be finicky (read: not work with some decks) and requires a specialized cable or converter.
- As noted above, the MixPre inputs are very sensitive and the output can run pretty hot with loud sources. Input attenuators are a very good thing to have on hand and use.
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Pretty sure only the USBpre2 has a D/A converter, and its A/D converter looks to have better dynamic range.
Mixpre-D: A/D Converter for USB 103 dB typical, A-weighted; sample rate selectable 44.1k, 48k, or 96k
USBpre2: A/D Converter 24-bit resolution. 114 dB typical dynamic range (22 Hz - 22 kHz bandwidth, A-weighted)
D/A Converter 24-bit resolution. 112 dB typical dynamic range (22 Hz - 22 kHz bandwidth, A-weighted)
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Pretty sure only the USBpre2 has a D/A converter
I stand corrected. The MixPre-D can be used as a USB-connected playback device but does not have a D/A converter according to specs.
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I think the contrast between the two units is pretty simple. The USBPre2 is definitely the superior unit when it comes to raw sonic performance. It has all around better specifications, so if you're recording mosquito farts it's clearly the better choice.
The Mixpre-D has a better feature set for "professional" work, which is to say that most features were implemented with the mindset of working in difficult environments and interfacing with other professional equipment. Examples include AES digital output (and lacking SPDIF), 10-18v external powering via a hirose connector + internal AA batteries for backup, and input transformers for noise isolation.
Both are great units, but in my opinion the USBPre2 is theoretically the better unit under perfect conditions. I'm not particularly fond of USB powering and would prefer a locking power connector and the ability to use internal AA's is nice, but do prefer the better noise performance, SPDIF compatibility, and ability to sync to an external clock source.
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See also http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=156191.msg1972972#msg1972972 .
--best regards
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With the mix pre-d you can use the digital output to record to an iPod touch. I think that is super cool. Very small and portable setup and amazing sound. I am using the Apogee Meta Recorder App which gives you a nice interface and ease of labelling takes... only problem is I cannot get it to record at 96khz just 48 : (
My friend who is a tonemeister in germany preferred the pre's on the mix pre-d over the usb pre so I went with that... he said the Usb-pre uses essentially the same pre as the 7000 series recorders and the Mixpre uses the classic pres from SD preamp boxes. This was confirmed to me by a tech at sound devices.
Here is his note which sums up the differences very nicely:
"The USBPre 2 and MixPre-D have different mic preamps and AD converters. The mic preamps on the USBPre 2 are the same as the transformerless pres on our 7-Series recorders. The MixPre-D have the same pres as the transformer balanced preamps on our field mixers. On the conversion side, the USBPre 2's ADC supports sample rates up to 192k and the MixPre-D only supports sample rates up to 92k. So in short, the USBPre-2 is aimed at very critical studio and test/measurement applications. The MixPre-D is aimed at field work. Please let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks."
I went with the MixPre-D and have been extremely happy with it direct into my computer at 96 or into my iPod at 48. I don't think you can lose with either device just analyze your needs and where and how you will use it most.
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When I used my USB-Pre back in 2002-2004 it ran off the USB for power, but was not bit perfect on coax > usb transfers. I believe they have since upgraded it.
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Hey didn't you just buy a 722? Wouldn't it have the same preamps as a usb pre?
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Yes :)
I was seriously about to go for a new Mix Pre-D (to the tune of $930) or Acidjack's USB Pre-2 in Yardsale. Then the opportunity for the 722 presented itself for just a few bucks more than the brand new Mix pre-D. ;D
So if the all of the 7xx series have the same preamps as the USB-Pre 2, then I guess that's what I have.
I'm still very interested, however, in all the information regarding the differences between the USB/MIX Pre. At some point in the future I could use one of them into my PMD661 for 2 more channels of SD sound…. maybe the Mix-Pre for the different flavoring on the sound?
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Gonna suggest you think about an Oade mod to your 661. You will need nothing in front of it imho, way cheaper and way smaller.
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Question...I thought Oade performed Mods only on units they sold as new...not used units?
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^^^No, he changed that policy a few years ago. He'll modify any deck in good working condition, I believe...