Topic: Sonosax MiniR82: Report from my Padded Cell

[WiFiJeff]

I like to think of myself as an "early adopter," which my wife says is a euphemism for "irresponsible lunatic."  I started out with an early M1 DAT and used it for five years before switching to an Edirol R1, ran that for about a year and a half until May when I got a Sony D1 (sweet and underappreciated machine) inorder to do 24/96, along the way I've tried out the MicroTrack (battery life and short 24/96 time untended killed that for me), the Zoom H4 (neat toy, not nearly up to the D1) and the SD722 in non-stealth situations.  So I'm just the right mark to buy this new "8-Track" Sonosax.

I put "8-Track" in quotes because out of the box you can only run it two tracks, line-in.  To use the mic-in channels or the digi-in 4 tracks you need proprietary connectors,they give you some unwired ones and there's a wiring diagram on their web site.  It has taken me a week to get a quote on ordering some XLR-to-Binder cables from them so I can use mic-in, they will also wire some Sanken COS11 mics or the low voltage DPA4063s to go in the 8-pin connectors.  You have to know what you are doing to wire these, as the choice of 48V phantom, 3.3V "plug-in" type power, or nothing is hardwired, not a menu selectable item.  Eventually I'll have to have a breakout dongle for digi-in made, too.

The manual is helpful as far as it goes, which is not very.  Correct battery polarity is to be inferred from a picture on a manual page, no indication on the machine or description.  It took several emails to find that the external DC-in is center pole positive, and some experimentation to find that a Radio Shack "A" Adaptaplug is roughly the right size.  The AC adapter is EXTRA (but they give you a nice wooden cigar box to store the MiniR82 in!).  The good news for me is that line-in at 24/96 it runs for more than 5 hours on four 2700 mAh NiMH AAs, and 9 1/2 hours using the batteries and a small lithium-ion power stick at 7.4V.  It automatically starts a new file at 4 GB, no data lost.  The gain structure of the mic-in is rational (once you get an email explaining it, no manual info), with three choices by switch, 0-40, 20-60 and 40-80 dB, varied via two potentiometer knobs that are very tough to move by accident.  For line-in you have to adjust levels on your preamp, but can select in the menu line in levels that should cover most equipment (0dB from +15, +6, 0, or -10 dBu, I'm doing fine with the factory preset of 0 dBu). 

For movie and multitrack production folks the machine does amazing stupid pet tricks that I will never use.  The manual covers lots of these, probably as poorly as it does the rest of the operation.  Although the menu selection buttons are counter-intuitive and lame, it is possible to get the hang of it quickly with some experimentation, and then a snap to use in the field, it actually requires less time to get recording than most other devices I've tried.  The worst choice was no turn-off switch, you have to shut it off from the menu.

Another misfeature is that you can't get rid of files from the machine, erasing them sticks them in a trash file where they stay, using up disk space.  To get rif of them you have to go USB to a computer and reformat the AUDIO partition (being careful not to trash the CONFIG partition, another issue the manual could be a lot more explicit warning you about).  The file transfer speed on USB 2.0 is excellent, I have been bringing 6-8GB over to my computer in about 5 minutes.

A final complaint: the 3.3V output will not run the Schoeps active cables, so you can't go directly into this box with the actives the way you can with the LemoSax preamp.  Inquires about this finally elicited the suggestion that I buy a LemoSax to feed the MiniR82, gee thanks guys.

So how does it sound?  I will not be able to test the preamps on mic-in for a few weeks, but line-in the A/D sounds as good as the D1, maybe better.  I've used a DPA MMA6000 to feed it, also a SD MP-2 with Neumann KM184s.  I'll be trying 24/192 this Friday, because hey why not.  I have not tried using a CF card in it, but it is tempting to route the tracks to the CF using the 16GB card someone has been ebaying.

If anyone has any specific questions about the machine I'll be happy to try to answer them (or you can email Sonosax and wait for the next total solar eclipse).  I'll probably be in my padded cell for the foreseeable future, because they say that to cure you, you have to confront your illness, and (did I mention this?) I love my MiniR82.

Jeff

[liverecording]

Referring to your "illness" ... How´s it going ? (meaning: Do you love the new device ?)

How does it sound when recording music instead of film dialogue ? ;o))

cheers,
liverecording

P.S. Will you also get hooked on that new Korg "thingy" that does 1bit recording? Will this be a major step foreward i.y.h.o ?

[WiFiJeff]

I'm still loving it.  The only user error I've had is a cable pulling out of the line-in, and there seems to be a problem (Sonosax has not yet solved) with the DC-in, after a successful run with a Smart Battery Pack power stick I have not been able to get it to run on DC-in again, very odd.  But it reliably (VERY reliably) runs over 4 hours on internal AA cells, about 3.75 hours with phantom power to Neumann KM184 mics.  Mostly I use it line-in, excellent results at 24/96 and 24/192.  I have used the internal pres with my new AKG C426B (and phantom) with good results, no head-on tests of the pres done yet.  The one run I have tried so far with Sanken COS11s was from a really lousy location, I hope to give it a fair test this weekend.  For a normal concert or 3 to 3 1/2 hour opera, it's set it and forget it.

That said, I am intrigued by the Korg DSD stuff, and will probably jump on it, though it will have to sound a lot better to get me off this beauty.

Jeff

[silentmark]

Anything more to report ?

[WiFiJeff]

Anything more to report ?

I use the MiniR82 practically every day.  It is a gem (and priced like one, maybe two gems).  Very reliable, gets better than 4 hours easy (maybe 5, but that's nervous territory) on 2700 mAh AA rechargeables.  The issues I had with digi-in have been resolved, mainly a problem of my V3 needing a dc cut retrofit and the meters on the MiniR82 being so good the inaudible low frequency junk was showing up looking really scarier than it was.  I hope to try the V3 with it soon (mine has been on loan since the retrofit), I usually go line-in with DPA4060s and an MMA6000 at 24/96, but have also fed it with an AKG426 with a DaviSound TB12 or a SD MP-2, and mic-in from the AKG as well, at 24/192.  I have tried mic-in with Sanken COS11s but did not like the sound of the mics compared to the DPAs, and have done a few 4 track tapes.  Service from Sonosax is still the pits, it is almost impossible to get an answer when issues arise, I am still trying to find a way to power it with an external battery but they have been slow to ship the proper cable.

Jeff

[SClassical]

Does it provide phantom power 48V so you can run mic in without an external preamp? I know you are currently using the internal A/D converter only. Shame it does not have a digital in....(even an old cheap MD recorder has it). Funny the newly release expensive recorders now a days are missing things cheap (MD) recorders  have 10 years ago.

[WiFiJeff]

Does it provide phantom power 48V so you can run mic in without an external preamp? I know you are currently using the internal A/D converter only. Shame it does not have a digital in....(even an old cheap MD recorder has it). Funny the newly release expensive recorders now a days are missing things cheap (MD) recorders  have 10 years ago.

It absolutely has digital in, in fact from four to eight channels of digital in.  I had an issue with my V3 showing a low of noise even when no mics were hooked up to it, but this was a V3 issue, the Sonosax was the first set of meters that saw the dc noise.  You have to get the dongle they provide wired with a connector, which is a nuisance, but doable.  And inputs 5 & 6 must be the main digi-in, you can't use 7 & 8 or 1-4 (also analog, menu selectable) unless there is a digital signal on 5 and 6 (and other digis are clocked to it).

It also has phantom power on the mics, and I have run both Sanken COS11s and AKGs with it, works fine.  The binder connector has to be hard wired to provide the phantom, the only thing that doesn't work is the 3V for some reason.  Sonosax response on how to use this for plug-in power mics was unhelpful and unconvincing. 

Jeff

[meatling]

So how does it sound?  I will not be able to test the preamps on mic-in for a few weeks, but line-in the A/D sounds as good as the D1, maybe better. 

Did you make some recordings with the built-in preamps in the meantime? I was wondering how your MINIR82 holds up against the 744T, sound quality wise ...

m

[WiFiJeff]

So how does it sound?  I will not be able to test the preamps on mic-in for a few weeks, but line-in the A/D sounds as good as the D1, maybe better. 

Did you make some recordings with the built-in preamps in the meantime? I was wondering how your MINIR82 holds up against the 744T, sound quality wise ...

m

I've done well over 100 recordings with an MMA6000 preamp > MiniR82, only a few using the MiniR82 preamp direct.  The results there were too mic-dependent to judge, when I used a less-great mic (than the DPA4060s I normally use), like the small Sankens, Microphone Madness cardioids, or AT943s, I got less great results.  I use it every few weeks with the DaviSound TB12 preamp, the combination is superb, but I've only used it direct with big mics once or twice, and not run a head-to-head with the 722.  I would be surprised if it was a whole lot better or worse than the 722, but can't really say.  Sonosax has finally gotten out a working external power supply and DC plug, and I have tested it to run over 10 hours with a 4000 mAh Power Stick from BatteryGeek, so I'm good to go for almost anything with this.  I want to run direct with Schoeps CCMs, which should be a good test of the preamp, but I can't figure out how to wear the Schoeps.

Jeff

Jeff

[shaggy]

Possible to wear a hat where you go?  I have the perfect set up for CCM4Vs and a little less than perfect for the non-V caps. email me.

You got some pictures of the break out cables and unit?  THat would be sweet!

Thanks for the review +T!

[StuStu]

So how does it sound?  I will not be able to test the preamps on mic-in for a few weeks, but line-in the A/D sounds as good as the D1, maybe better. 

Did you make some recordings with the built-in preamps in the meantime? I was wondering how your MINIR82 holds up against the 744T, sound quality wise ...

m

I've done well over 100 recordings with an MMA6000 preamp > MiniR82, only a few using the MiniR82 preamp direct.  The results there were too mic-dependent to judge, when I used a less-great mic (than the DPA4060s I normally use), like the small Sankens, Microphone Madness cardioids, or AT943s, I got less great results.  I use it every few weeks with the DaviSound TB12 preamp, the combination is superb, but I've only used it direct with big mics once or twice, and not run a head-to-head with the 722.  I would be surprised if it was a whole lot better or worse than the 722, but can't really say.  Sonosax has finally gotten out a working external power supply and DC plug, and I have tested it to run over 10 hours with a 4000 mAh Power Stick from BatteryGeek, so I'm good to go for almost anything with this.  I want to run direct with Schoeps CCMs, which should be a good test of the preamp, but I can't figure out how to wear the Schoeps.

Jeff

Jeff

Is the DPA pre necessary to power the 4060's? I have about 100 questions I'd love to ask. I have the 4 channel bug...sort of. I can't really decide. I would have to say that if I decide to go 4 channel, my initial thought is 744t. The 722 is, to me, absolutely amazing. I was scared shitless when I bought it. It is very expensive. After my first 722 pull, I smiled, money well spent. Okay, Sound Devices fluff finished. Is this a good 744t alternative? Anyone? I am very suprised that there are not more threads/TS owners of the MiniR82. What gives? Sonosax makes superb stuff! The discreet size of it reminds of beer goggles; is that good looking or is it what I'm wanting to see?       

[WiFiJeff]

Since I need to power the DPAs, the MMA6000 is a good and small alternative to just a battery box.  The MiniR82 will not power the DPA4060s, it provides either phantom power or 3.3V (NOT plug-in power) and you can wire the Binder connectors to do either no voltage, 48V or 3.3V only.  Sonosax offers DPA4063s wired for Binders, but those are not supposed to be as nice as 4060s or 4061s. 

The main problem with the Sonosax is price, it's horrendous even without the useless version of Pyramix mine was bundled with.  But it does do 8 channels (mic-in and line-in can also be configured as digital-in, and there are 4 other digi-in-only channels), I've run it with both mic-in and line-in only, though I will try feeding it with a V3 at some point. I can't use the 722 for many things because of size issues.  The Sonosax fits in a pocket even better than the Sony M-1 DAT.

I have also had to get all the connectors wired by outside suppliers: Sonosax gives you a digital dongle but I needed to have Cascade wire it for standard connectors.  I have a Binder-to-Lemo cable for the Schoeps Lemo CCMs (I have CCM21s, will probably pick up CCM4s at some point). I'll take some pictures tomorrow of the connectors and setups. 

Jeff

[meatling]

Hello Jeff,

thanks for reviving this interesting topic.


I may be wrong (although I hope I'm not ) but it seems like Sonosax addressed some of your criticism in the meantime. At least their price list includes various ready-made cables, so apparently you don't need to get all of them from outside suppliers anymore.

Apropos prices: For Europeans, the MINIR82 is actually less expensive than a 744T. That's what makes the Sonosax stuff so interesting to me. It's just a shame that you hardly find any information about their products.

m

[WiFiJeff]

Okay, here are some crude cellphone shots of the MiniR82 with digital dongle and breakouts to RCA and XLR (there has to be a signal on the RCA first the way it's wired to use the XLR, since lines 5&6 need a digital signal first, then 7&; with a convenient Archos Jukebox padded case that fits it perfectly (I'm not carrying it in that fancy wooden box Sonosax provides); with some lemo-to-Binder connectors (I also have Binder-to-XLR cables for big mics, and Binders out of a Sound Professionals mini-battery box for AT/Church Audio/MM mics); and my new grandson, born Thursday (not included with the Sonosax, though the price would cover it).

[gratefulphish]

When you say there has to be a signal on the RCA first, does that mean you cannot just record two channels with mics and phantom power, unless you also have some other signal running through the RCA inputs?  Do you have to keep swapping all of the connectors for each different situation?  What would be required in terms of cabling, in order to run two mics, and have an analog, or digital, soundboard feed?  Also, how can you really see eight channels of levels on that tiny screen?

[WiFiJeff]

You can run analog-in from either line-in or mic-in or both, but if you try to run a digital signal into 7&8 you will get an error message if there is no digital signal on 5&6.  I did not know this when I had the dongle wired, I thought I was adding versitility by having one RCA-in and one AES, but since it was wired with the RCA on 5&6 I have to use RCA first, no big deal, I just had to get an AES-to-RCA cable made.  I see no problem doing what you ask, you'll need Binder connectors wired to whatever cables your mic uses, and correctly pinned-out to provide phantom or not.  For a line feed you need a male 1/8" stereo plug from your preamp.  One really nice feature is that you can set the voltage for hitting 0dB, the factory default is 0 dBu, which is fine for my DPA/MMA6000, but for a hot mic into the DaviSound TB12 I was setting the knobs too far down, so I run it at +15 dBu (you can also choose +6 or -10 dBu).  The meters are about the best I've used in the quiet area, it shows every bit of noise so I've had to clean up some of my other equipment (DC correction for my V3 and replacement of noisy DC power stick with a clean one).  It is not so easy to use near clipping, as the scale is not as non-linear there as I'm used to.  With the DPA/MMA I have no trouble as I've got a pretty good grip on levels at this point, and don't have a way to check while running anyway.  WHile fooling around with other mics and preamps I tend to run too conservative.  The meter is always lit, easily  visible, it's just hard to tell when you are in the danger zone.  The problem is that there are no markings telling you where you are except for one line, default set to -9 dB.  I will probably move this to -6 dB as I think it will be more useful to me there.

Jeff

[shaggy]

Jeff,

You mentioned you got the lemo to binder cables made by an outside source.  Care to share that with us?

+T Thanks for the pictures, it is really clean looking.

ANDY

[WiFiJeff]

I bought the Sonosax through Frank at Cascade, he had the cables made up for me.  I also had Chris at Sound Professionals wire his small battery box which powers AT943s etc. with dual Binder-out short cables (he wired some ATs direct with Binders, but the 3.3V on the Sonosax is not plug-in power and when we asked Sonosax about how to use it they discouraged it, though I bet you could use it with some resisters properly placed), the battery box is actually a whole lot more flexible in what it lets me use, and very tiny.

Jeff

[StuStu]

Thanks for sharing the information. It's a slick looking little all-in-one. (Cute baby pic too!)