Topic: Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?

[Brian]

load one source in.  take notcie to it's location in the time table.  then load the next source.  whichever one is off "to the right" in the timetable is most likely, the culprit.

i'd be willing to believe that whatever source starts first is fine and whatever one comes later (180º out of phase) is the one out of phase.

can anybodyy else either back me up or refute that? that would be my guess. 

edit - on the surface it's seems like a rather big assumption.  maybe it's the complete opposite of what i just said?  you really need to perform the speaker to test to find out.

[tractor]

I found that the source that used the pre/ad of the 744 needed to be fixed not the one that went digi in.

[wboswell]

I found that the source that used the pre/ad of the 744 needed to be fixed not the one that went digi in.

So how did you determine that the mic source was out of phase?  I'm guessing you could have inverted the digi in source and gotten the same results.  On the other hand, my simple minded logic leads me to think that the mic in source would be the one more succeptible to the phase inversion.  Once the digital information is encoded, I would doubt that the 744 is doing much if anything to it, besides writing the data to the HD.

[dmonterisi]

cross posted to the oade board:

http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/Forum/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=100&topic_id=3212&mesg_id=3212&page=

[tractor]

Boswell, 

I used your logic that the digital source into the 744 was not problem since the 744 wouldnt alter the wav.  I guess you could change the digital source's phase and it still works.  Let me know what you hear from SD on this issue.

Dave

[wboswell]

This was posted over on the SD forum by a member who also posts here on occasion...

this doesn't explain the issue with your first source, but ithe AD2K+ was found to invert phase long after they first went on sale - see http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/manuals/ad2402-96-manual.pdf for details.

Steve

[fobstl]

So are you guys finding that the word clock is matching up exactly for the analog in source and the digi in source on the 744? In other words are the tracks lining up exactly lengthwize not factoring in the phase issue. I have a few 4 channel 744 sources on my computer that are sbd 2 channels analog in and aud 2 channels V3 digi in, wondering if when I get them lined up in one spot on the recording will they be lined up throughout. If they are the exact length I am guessing that means that the 744 locks the analog inputs to the digi in word clock in this case instead of using the 744 word clock?

Brothers

[tractor]

Yes I found that both sources were clocked.  I didnt have to do anything to the sources but fix the phase and mix. 

[fobstl]

Yes I found that both sources were clocked.  I didnt have to do anything to the sources but fix the phase and mix. 

Cool, thanks Dave. Hope you are doing well.
Brothers

[wboswell]

So are you guys finding that the word clock is matching up exactly for the analog in source and the digi in source on the 744? In other words are the tracks lining up exactly lengthwize not factoring in the phase issue. I have a few 4 channel 744 sources on my computer that are sbd 2 channels analog in and aud 2 channels V3 digi in, wondering if when I get them lined up in one spot on the recording will they be lined up throughout. If they are the exact length I am guessing that means that the 744 locks the analog inputs to the digi in word clock in this case instead of using the 744 word clock?

Brothers

The 7xx series internal a/d will automatically clock to any external digital source fed via s/pdif or AES, as per SD, so given two mics in a similar space, there will be no timing issues.  A sbd and aud source on the same 744 will have timing issues though.  The latency here is from the distance from the PA and the mics, which we all know.  However, the cool thing I noticed on the recent firmware upgrade, it appears that the source delay has increased from 20 milliseconds to 150 milliseconds, or at least that's what I remember seeing when I was thumbing through the menu last week.  Someone else will have to confirm that this is enough delay to make an on the fly mix as I was a C student in physics...

[fsulloway]

So are you guys finding that the word clock is matching up exactly for the analog in source and the digi in source on the 744? In other words are the tracks lining up exactly lengthwize not factoring in the phase issue. I have a few 4 channel 744 sources on my computer that are sbd 2 channels analog in and aud 2 channels V3 digi in, wondering if when I get them lined up in one spot on the recording will they be lined up throughout. If they are the exact length I am guessing that means that the 744 locks the analog inputs to the digi in word clock in this case instead of using the 744 word clock?

Brothers

I think it's about 1 ms per foot between mics and PA. However if you're within 20-25ft, you can probably get away without using any delay. How far do you think the mics were from the PA?

[fobstl]

So are you guys finding that the word clock is matching up exactly for the analog in source and the digi in source on the 744? In other words are the tracks lining up exactly lengthwize not factoring in the phase issue. I have a few 4 channel 744 sources on my computer that are sbd 2 channels analog in and aud 2 channels V3 digi in, wondering if when I get them lined up in one spot on the recording will they be lined up throughout. If they are the exact length I am guessing that means that the 744 locks the analog inputs to the digi in word clock in this case instead of using the 744 word clock?

Brothers

I think it's about 1 ms per foot between mics and PA. However if you're within 20-25ft, you can probably get away without using any delay. How far do you think the mics were from the PA?

Mics were probably 30' from the PA. I do plan to line up the sources first, just wanted to know if I could do it in one spot or if I had to cut up songs to do it. Sounds like lining up in one spot will work.
Thanks!

[dmonterisi]

steve, have you checked out the 4 channel recordings that you've done with the 744 to determine if they have any phasing issues?  it sounds like you haven't mixed them down yet, but i wondered if you might've checked them out in the wavelab montage yet?

[fobstl]

steve, have you checked out the 4 channel recordings that you've done with the 744 to determine if they have any phasing issues?  it sounds like you haven't mixed them down yet, but i wondered if you might've checked them out in the wavelab montage yet?

I have not checked them out yet but I do plan to do so soon since reading this thread. I had kind of temporarily given up on mixing them because of the issues with the over 2 gig files. Figured sooner or later someone would figure it out. I need to go back and read over this thread to nail down the work flow and will report back on what I find on the phasing.

[fobstl]

OK I have read through this thread and I am still not sure I have figured out how to mix the 2 24/96 stereo channels I have in Wavelab. Would someone mind posting a quick work flow for idiots like me so I can do something with these shows I have had on my hard drive. Thanks for the help!