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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: Brian E. on July 06, 2015, 11:08:35 PM
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Anyone ever do this with a simple setup - in my case, a R09-HR?
I have Ca-14 Cards and I would have access to a SBD feed. Any change I can connect a bunch of cables together with Y and get sort of on the fly matrix? Or would there be interference / would it not work like that?
My other concern is the timing would be off.
Thanks :)
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if its all done on the one recorder you will simply need to align the two stereo tracks as there will be a slight time difference since its takes a fraction of a second longer for the music to reach your mics than the sbd feed. good luck!
edit: this requires a 4 channel recorder...
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yeah I was afraid of that obaaron.
So the plan is to video record and also audio record. Maybe I'll board into my video cam and then just run mics for the second source in my Edirol. Then I'll matrix together later or just keep them separate.
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So the plan is to video record and also audio record. Maybe I'll board into my video cam and then just run mics for the second source in my Edirol. Then I'll matrix together later or just keep them separate.
I like that plan. Even if you could somehow align the two sources on the fly, you really want the control to adjust the mix later, which means keeping all four channels.
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To REALLY do it on the fly, buy two of these Brian, and send me one....! ;D
Hall Research AD-340 Universal Audio Delay Processor
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hall-Research-AD-340-Universal-Audio-Delay-Processor-/190690936715?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6610c78b
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There is a 1 msec delay for every foot of distance between your mics and the stage, relative to the soundboard feed.
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To REALLY do it on the fly, buy two of these Brian, and send me one....! ;D
Hall Research AD-340 Universal Audio Delay Processor
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hall-Research-AD-340-Universal-Audio-Delay-Processor-/190690936715?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6610c78b
LOL that'd be nice.
There is a 1 msec delay for every foot of distance between your mics and the stage, relative to the soundboard feed.
Thanks!
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top is my mics. bottom is brick walled SBD feed (attenuated by my video cam)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/shadowravenz/Screen%20Shot%202015-07-08%20at%2012.23.25%20AM_zpsik9esfpx.png)
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Low-cost options which preserve maximum flexibility to "do it right, do it better" later, along with a real-time on-the-fly matrix-
Buy a Tascam DR-70D and record 4 individual channels separately, while sending your 2-ch on-the-fly matrix out to your R-09HR. The DR-70D provides delay as well as pan and level control over the stereo mix.
Buy a DR-680 and record up to 6 individual channels separately each as well as your 2-ch on-the-fly stereo matrix simultaneously on the same machine. The DR-680 provides level control and pan but no delay.
Not sure if the 70 offers EQ per channel or channel pair, I know the 680 does not.
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70d does not have manual control over gain out to camera. 60d has it. 1/8 input preamp same on 70d and 60d. If taking sbf into xlr at line level, I don't see advantage of 70d over 60d. If video recording with a matrix is the goal, 60d maybe better choice.
Wouldn't mess with built in delay. I'd align waveforms.
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Wouldn't mess with built in delay. I'd align waveforms.
Same here. I'd also say why buy another four channels when you already have two, but that's me.
Is there a way to get the SBD output turned down before it gets to your camera? Or can you just pick up a cheap attenuator cable?
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If sending the on-the-fly 4ch matrix to another recorder (R-09HR in Brian's case, but could be any 2-ch recorder), manual control over gain out isn't very necessary. Just adjust input gain of the 2nd recorder.
If an on-the-fly-matrix is the goal, then "messing with built-in delay" accommodates for alignment on-the-fly. Aligning waveforms later for a properly done matrix any delay adjustment made on-the-fly won't matter anyway.. simply re-align the files as needed.
For successfully doing an on-the-fly-matrix, the availability of delay is more important than line out gain IMHO (unless going out to a camera without appropriate input level contol). Not having added delay (and EQ) functions to the newly reissued DR-680mk2 is one of my primary disappointments with the mk2 version.
[Edit- I'd also say why buy another four channels when you already have two, but that's me.
Because that's the only way to get both an on-the-fly matrix AND have the individual channels available to "do it right" afterwards.]
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I think you guys are missing a key point. The thread specifically addresses the issues of making an "on the fly" matrix, not the obvious advantages of doing it later.
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The other critical factor for achieving a decent "on-the-fly" matrix is good highly-isolating headphones that allow assessing the mix properly to make appropriate mix decisions (level,pan,delay,eq). Learning how to translate that very compromised monitoring situation to a good mix is a skill which takes practice.
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I used a Berhinger mixer in my early days and mixed onstage mics with a board feed and outputted to a D8. They are still some of my favorite tapes to listen back to.
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60d has selectable delay built in the menu. It also doesn't lock you out of changing your camera gain out once you start recording. Send a decent feed into the camera and be done.
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I used a Berhinger mixer in my early days and mixed onstage mics with a board feed and outputted to a D8. They are still some of my favorite tapes to listen back to.
Yeah, that's right Jhurlbs81.....if mics are onstage, no real need for delay.... 8)
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That's true. Only need delay if you have mics farther back in the room.
Problem then may be that even with good isolating cans or in-ears it becomes very hard to hear the mix clearly enough to make appropriate decisions while tweaking it if the recorder is located up front too.
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I think you guys are missing a key point. The thread specifically addresses the issues of making an "on the fly" matrix, not the obvious advantages of doing it later.
Yes, I did indeed miss that that's what you were talking about, sorry. Topic had drifted, and I had with it.
If on-the-fly matrix is the goal, yes, 4 tracks good.
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thanks all, appreciate all the input in every way. I did eventually just align in Audacity. I couldn't get a different output level on the board - I was lucky I got what I got. Luckily the camera has a built in limiter. It turned out pretty well - once I get permission, I'll post!
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if you are doing an on the fly matrix, YOU MUST run your mics on stage bottom line
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^ makes sense!
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if you are doing an on the fly matrix, YOU MUST run your mics on stage bottom line
Or your name better be Kevin Browning.