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Author Topic: reducing loud audience applause between (and sometimes during) music  (Read 2635 times)

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Offline daze

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I'm still trying to figure out the best way to handle shows with loud audience applause between (and sometimes during) songs.  For example, acoustic shows, or a single pianist, where the audience levels can be as much as 10-20 db higher than the music.

I've read and re-read threads here, I've had some success when it's "just" between the songs by using the audacity envelope tool, but when it bleeds into the music I'm still struggling (I've played around with the envelope tool, compressor, hard limiting).  If anyone has any additional tips it would be much appreciated.  I have audacity, cool edit pro, izotope rx5, and ozone 8 as my tools. 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2022, 03:05:43 PM by daze »

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Re: reducing loud audience applause between (and sometimes during) music
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2022, 04:58:37 PM »
De-click using RX7 works best for me.  Between tracks, you can use gain reduction subtly
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Offline daze

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Re: reducing loud audience applause between (and sometimes during) music
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2022, 05:21:56 PM »
De-click using RX7 works best for me.  Between tracks, you can use gain reduction subtly

Thanks.  I'll play around more.  I'm trying to make sure I know all the various ways I can attack this type of problem.  I'm also trying to figure out the best way to deal with shows where someone fiddles with their gain during the first few songs.

Offline roffels

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Re: reducing loud audience applause between (and sometimes during) music
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2022, 06:53:38 PM »
I use Izotope and select the loudest frequences when people are cheering, and attenuate.

Alternatively, I compress everything so that the music is as loud as the cheering.

Further, and this method is a huge pain, in Audacity I'll copy the cheers/claps to its own track, mix it in at a lower volume. I'll blend the "audience" and "music" tracks by fading out/fading in overlapping segments. This works fine for when there's no overlap between the music and cheering, but sounds a little wonky when they overlap.

Offline daze

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Re: reducing loud audience applause between (and sometimes during) music
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2022, 07:05:22 PM »
I use Izotope and select the loudest frequences when people are cheering, and attenuate.

Alternatively, I compress everything so that the music is as loud as the cheering.

Further, and this method is a huge pain, in Audacity I'll copy the cheers/claps to its own track, mix it in at a lower volume. I'll blend the "audience" and "music" tracks by fading out/fading in overlapping segments. This works fine for when there's no overlap between the music and cheering, but sounds a little wonky when they overlap.

Thanks!  I'm learning how to use Izotope spectral repair for singular loud claps, but I haven't figured out how to work Izotope for the thunderous audience applause in these shows where the music isn't nearly as loud. 

Offline morst

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Re: reducing loud audience applause between (and sometimes during) music
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2022, 08:06:31 PM »
I use Izotope and select the loudest frequences when people are cheering, and attenuate.

Alternatively, I compress everything so that the music is as loud as the cheering.

Further, and this method is a huge pain, in Audacity I'll copy the cheers/claps to its own track, mix it in at a lower volume. I'll blend the "audience" and "music" tracks by fading out/fading in overlapping segments. This works fine for when there's no overlap between the music and cheering, but sounds a little wonky when they overlap.
do you invert the signal of the disagreeable part so that it cancels perfectly?
If you surgically pare away all the music from the nasty-junk track, and put neat little fades on the end of each unwanted sound, then invert that track and mix, it should cancel them nicely!?

Offline daze

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Re: reducing loud audience applause between (and sometimes during) music
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2022, 08:54:55 PM »
I use Izotope and select the loudest frequences when people are cheering, and attenuate.

Alternatively, I compress everything so that the music is as loud as the cheering.

Further, and this method is a huge pain, in Audacity I'll copy the cheers/claps to its own track, mix it in at a lower volume. I'll blend the "audience" and "music" tracks by fading out/fading in overlapping segments. This works fine for when there's no overlap between the music and cheering, but sounds a little wonky when they overlap.
do you invert the signal of the disagreeable part so that it cancels perfectly?
If you surgically pare away all the music from the nasty-junk track, and put neat little fades on the end of each unwanted sound, then invert that track and mix, it should cancel them nicely!?

I've never tried inverting the signal, I'll explore that also.  Thanks for your help and ideas.

Offline morst

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Re: reducing loud audience applause between (and sometimes during) music
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2022, 09:27:26 PM »
do you invert the signal of the disagreeable part so that it cancels perfectly?
If you surgically pare away all the music from the nasty-junk track, and put neat little fades on the end of each unwanted sound, then invert that track and mix, it should cancel them nicely!?

I've never tried inverting the signal, I'll explore that also.  Thanks for your help and ideas.

polarity invert and add is just like subtracting.

Consider in math that these statements are more or less identical
1 + (-1) = 0
1 - 1 = 0

When doing arithmetic (linear*) operations on sound, such as volume level up or down on a bit-by-bit basis, this totally works.
Flipping the nasty crud upside down and mixing at full level with the original will make it drop to nothing, You might need to mix less than equal to leave something there, so it doesn't sound like a dropout.

* by linear I mean only affecting a single variable at once. In this case, volume level (intensity)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2022, 09:31:13 PM by morst »

Offline daze

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Re: reducing loud audience applause between (and sometimes during) music
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2022, 09:58:56 PM »
do you invert the signal of the disagreeable part so that it cancels perfectly?
If you surgically pare away all the music from the nasty-junk track, and put neat little fades on the end of each unwanted sound, then invert that track and mix, it should cancel them nicely!?

I've never tried inverting the signal, I'll explore that also.  Thanks for your help and ideas.

polarity invert and add is just like subtracting.

Consider in math that these statements are more or less identical
1 + (-1) = 0
1 - 1 = 0

When doing arithmetic (linear*) operations on sound, such as volume level up or down on a bit-by-bit basis, this totally works.
Flipping the nasty crud upside down and mixing at full level with the original will make it drop to nothing, You might need to mix less than equal to leave something there, so it doesn't sound like a dropout.

* by linear I mean only affecting a single variable at once. In this case, volume level (intensity)

Thanks for this explanation, this is definitely something I need to play around with.  There's such a steep learning curve in all of these programs, but the best way to do it is to do it. 

Offline tim in jersey

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Re: reducing loud audience applause between (and sometimes during) music
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2022, 03:29:00 AM »
Marking thread.

Offline kindms

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Re: reducing loud audience applause between (and sometimes during) music
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2022, 02:44:43 PM »
In Audacity I use the limiter

I select the loud clapping or whatever, set the limiter to a soft limit and reduce the crowd that way. Obviously easier to do between tunes but can be implemented for tracks

I do this and then once i have cleaned it up bring the entire file up to 0 before fades etc
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Offline daze

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Re: reducing loud audience applause between (and sometimes during) music
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2022, 06:37:03 PM »
In Audacity I use the limiter

I select the loud clapping or whatever, set the limiter to a soft limit and reduce the crowd that way. Obviously easier to do between tunes but can be implemented for tracks

I do this and then once i have cleaned it up bring the entire file up to 0 before fades etc

Thanks!  I need to explore the limiter function more and get a better grasp of hard v soft limiter.  The problem I always have, when I'm grabbing something between songs (and especially when the song, or the artist speaking, bleeds into the horrific applause/screaming) is that I hear a noticeable volume difference immediately before/after what I'm trying to tamper down.  I like the audacity envelope tool as that really helps soften/minimize/eliminate that abruptness.  I'll play around with the limiter and see what I can figure out.

Offline kindms

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Re: reducing loud audience applause between (and sometimes during) music
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2022, 07:04:10 PM »
In Audacity I use the limiter

I select the loud clapping or whatever, set the limiter to a soft limit and reduce the crowd that way. Obviously easier to do between tunes but can be implemented for tracks

I do this and then once i have cleaned it up bring the entire file up to 0 before fades etc

Thanks!  I need to explore the limiter function more and get a better grasp of hard v soft limiter.  The problem I always have, when I'm grabbing something between songs (and especially when the song, or the artist speaking, bleeds into the horrific applause/screaming) is that I hear a noticeable volume difference immediately before/after what I'm trying to tamper down.  I like the audacity envelope tool as that really helps soften/minimize/eliminate that abruptness.  I'll play around with the limiter and see what I can figure out.

to expand a little. I guesstimate by looking at the WAV form about what the peak audio is and then limit the crowd to that. so im taking out the peaks that prevent a more accurate 'amplify' of the true peak for the entire show if that makes any sense.
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Offline daze

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Re: reducing loud audience applause between (and sometimes during) music
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2022, 07:17:16 PM »
In Audacity I use the limiter

I select the loud clapping or whatever, set the limiter to a soft limit and reduce the crowd that way. Obviously easier to do between tunes but can be implemented for tracks

I do this and then once i have cleaned it up bring the entire file up to 0 before fades etc

Thanks!  I need to explore the limiter function more and get a better grasp of hard v soft limiter.  The problem I always have, when I'm grabbing something between songs (and especially when the song, or the artist speaking, bleeds into the horrific applause/screaming) is that I hear a noticeable volume difference immediately before/after what I'm trying to tamper down.  I like the audacity envelope tool as that really helps soften/minimize/eliminate that abruptness.  I'll play around with the limiter and see what I can figure out.

to expand a little. I guesstimate by looking at the WAV form about what the peak audio is and then limit the crowd to that. so im taking out the peaks that prevent a more accurate 'amplify' of the true peak for the entire show if that makes any sense.

That makes sense.  That's what I played around with using the compressor function last night.  I'll play with the limiter next.  Thank you!

Offline tim in jersey

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