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Author Topic: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?  (Read 1449 times)

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Offline melontracks

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Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« on: September 23, 2022, 04:09:00 PM »
Taping a show in a small room tonight. I'll be able to position myself anywhere in the room I please, seated. Normally, I'd use my CA-14 Church Audio ST-11 mics with the card caps in this situation, but have lately been experimenting with the omni caps with mixed results, and I'm not sure why I'm getting good and bad results. Maybe distance from the source?

The music is "Americana" and I believe the act will be just the songwriter/multi-instrumentalist (no band). The FOH guy at the venue is great and attentive, so the sound will be good throughout the performance and throughout the room.

If you were me, where would you sit, and which caps would you use? Have meant to ask for feedback on this for a long time, but it's just now occurring to me, since I'm really just now dusting off the gear after a couple-year hiatus that I feel I'm not alone in having taken...

Thanks in advance!


Chris
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 04:14:14 PM by melontracks »

Offline jb63

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2022, 04:32:25 PM »
OMNIs : as close to front and enter as possible. And don't overload it. I'd go for sound right from the performer to my mics.

YMMV
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Offline melontracks

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2022, 04:42:44 PM »
OMNIs : as close to front and enter as possible. And don't overload it. I'd go for sound right from the performer to my mics.

YMMV

That sounds like a plan, and easy! I was thinking if I used omnis, I'd try to enlist my wife into helping out by holding one mic to get ~3ft spacing... Would it be worth it? And how critical is the accuracy of the spacing? Is phasing an issue if I get the spacing wrong? My default mic spacing for this approach is only about 4 inches, out of convenience.

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2022, 04:46:03 PM »
With omnis, if you have a "baffle" there are no issues with phasing

Offline melontracks

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2022, 05:02:04 PM »
With omnis, if you have a "baffle" there are no issues with phasing

Thank you. My wife's purse is a pretty solid baffle. Should be good to go. :)

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2022, 05:05:22 PM »
With omnis, if you have a "baffle" there are no issues with phasing

Yeah, placing omnis on your shoulders and using your head as a baffle works, as does placing mics on either side of a bag.

And that situation definitely sounds like a good candidate for omnis. After much angsting over this for indoor shows, I've finally arrived at: If it sounds good from where I am in the room, use omnis. If it sounds bad — whether because of room echo, yammering audience members, or whatever — go to cards to try to improve as much as possible on the suboptimal sound.

Good luck!

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2022, 05:06:10 PM »
Agreed with jb63 and DP.

Omnis will sound more natural and magical when you get it right, and can work well in this kind of situation, with teleportation time-machine like potential.

2 feet apart will be good up close and might be easier to do, which is about arm-rest-width in row seating, and probably easier at a table too.   Spaced less than about 1-1/2 feet is when a baffle of some sort will do most to improve things.  Anything works in a pinch, like a handbag, a coat, menu, table cards..

One thing to be careful of is if the PA is much louder than the performer, in which case you either need to be really close to the performer, or make sure you pickup enough clear PA in addition to the direct sound from the performer.  That direct sound from the performer and instruments contains the magic juju!  If it sounds good right up front in the center (with no muddy off-axis PA zone there) get right in front with the audience behind you and everything falls perfectly into place.

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2022, 05:13:02 PM »
Another trick: When recording from the row or table, if the audience is chatty or too loud, you can use something as a baffle behind the mics - between them and the audience noise - which could be seat backs, the stuff mentioned above or even you and your wife!  That won't eliminate the noise, but will make it indirect-arriving sound and thus more diffuse and less attention grabbing, and biases toward getting most of the direct sound in the recording from the performer.
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Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline melontracks

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2022, 05:15:43 PM »
Another trick: When recording from the row or table, if the audience is chatty or too loud, you can use something as a baffle behind the mics - between them and the audience noise - which could be seat backs, the stuff mentioned above or even you and your wife!  That won't eliminate the noise, but will make it indirect-arriving sound and thus more diffuse and less attention grabbing, and biases toward getting most of the direct sound in the recording from the performer.

I like it. Fortunately, this venue has super respectful audiences. The worst thing I've ever picked up from the aud here is the crinkling of one of those flimsy water bottles. god, i hate those things.

One thing to be careful of is if the PA is much louder than the performer, in which case you either need to be really close to the performer, or make sure you pickup enough clear PA in addition to the direct sound from the performer.  That direct sound from the performer and instruments contains the magic juju!  If it sounds good right up front in the center (with no muddy off-axis PA zone there) get right in front with the audience behind you and everything falls perfectly into place.

Interesting. I was actually worried about the wedges at the front of the stage, and picking that up instead of the performer, though I guess with omnis I'll be getting a little bit of everything. This guy plays guitar, piano, harmonica, etc., so I'll be curious to see if he even has a monitor, and where it'll be. Usually, at this place, the wedges are right at the edge of the stage, which is just a couple of feet from the front row. I'll take good notes, regardless.

Offline illconditioned

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2022, 08:06:09 PM »
nothing better than taping in a small room.I've done a lot of house and small venues.sitting up close is great, you get a mixture of 'stage' and 'PA' sound.
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Offline melontracks

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2022, 10:27:51 PM »
After all that, just got down to the venue and discovered that both the wife and I had assumed the other had put my gear in her purse and neither of us had.  :facepalm:

I guess I'll always have the memories. Ha! Thanks for the tips. I'll use them next time.

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2022, 12:05:32 PM »

Nothing is more important than actually bringing all of the gear to the show.  :banging head:
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Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2022, 01:44:06 PM »
Another trick: When recording from the row or table, if the audience is chatty or too loud, you can use something as a baffle behind the mics - between them and the audience noise - which could be seat backs, the stuff mentioned above or even you and your wife!  That won't eliminate the noise, but will make it indirect-arriving sound and thus more diffuse and less attention grabbing, and biases toward getting most of the direct sound in the recording from the performer.

Yeah, the body acts as a great baffle, both between and behind the mics. Does a surprisingly good job of minimizing chatter from behind

Offline Papaphunk

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2022, 02:58:32 PM »
ISO wife who will hold one of my omni mic's 3 feet away from mine for an entire show  :D
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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2022, 04:38:04 AM »

Nothing is more important than actually bringing all of the gear to the show.  :banging head:
number 2 is making sure you're not too incapacitated to effectively use it

 

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