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Author Topic: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?  (Read 1422 times)

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Offline jbosco

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2022, 09:10:09 AM »

Nothing is more important than actually bringing all of the gear to the show.  :banging head:
number 2 is making sure you're not too incapacitated to effectively use it

I can't tell you how many times after a show and after I've packed up all my gear I'd go find my buddy still staring at his gear, or in some conversation and unable to comprehend that the show was over and it was time to go home and I'd have to put his stuff away for him.
---
Neumann KM 184 -> Tascam DR 70D
DPA 4061 -> Sony M10

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2022, 11:40:04 AM »
You are a good taper friend to have!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline grawk

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2022, 06:13:23 AM »
You are a good taper friend to have!

sounds like a few phish shows in the late 90s
4015gs/4061->mma:a d-vice/mixpre 10 ii/zoom f3

Offline lmgbtapes

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2022, 03:50:57 AM »
I'm partial to omnis for a litany of reasons - many gutbucket posts on this subject have been consumed! I am always in pursuit of that time machine quality, prefer energy (and often in small-medium clubs, lack of rear chatter/bar noise) from the front, find that the drum kit is often lacking in PA mix, and to be frank, want to enjoy the shows too, which for me is being near the front. That plus the 'dollar for dollar value' has led me to primarily run omnis up close, sometimes running standard FOB setup as backup.

I have an interesting comparison to add to the mix - this venue is 250, not 150, but would put it in the same 'small venue' category-

Here's omnis (CA-14s!) on stage right near the lip center between two wedges, direct line of sight to all the amps on stage, mics inches from stage floor:
https://archive.org/details/tmg2021-08-20/02_Jaipur.flac

And here's MK4s FOB (not mine, rare show for me with fellow taper in attendance, always fun):
https://archive.org/details/tmg2021-08-20.mk4.flac24/tmg2021-08-20mk4_t02.flac

Good food for thought. Both sound great to my ears with different qualitative elements. The key piece that's often lacking with omnis on stage and no SBD to mix with is the vocals, but this isn't as severe in small rooms. For me, this is one of those time machine tapes. Plan was to get SBD for matrix but didn't pan out, and I really don't mind, which probably wouldn't be the case in a larger room.

Sorry to hear about the gear fail. Always rough. Just posting for the folks who may Google this however many decades down the line. Nice to be able to contribute, finally.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2022, 04:19:35 AM by lmgbtapes »

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2022, 09:51:10 PM »
Was just browser streaming both above links, switching back and forth.. then pulled off the quick-finger-jab manual sync trick honed long ago playing back with two R-09s, only problem in this case being the sync, once absolutely nailed (takes a few times, close listening, patience, luck) only holds for one song. Still, the combo with the FOB mk4s at about 50% volume in comparison to the stage-lip CA14 omnis is sounding particularly right.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline roffels

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2022, 11:37:06 PM »
Was just browser streaming both above links, switching back and forth.. then pulled off the quick-finger-jab manual sync trick honed long ago playing back with two R-09s, only problem in this case being the sync, once absolutely nailed (takes a few times, close listening, patience, luck) only holds for one song. Still, the combo with the FOB mk4s at about 50% volume in comparison to the stage-lip CA14 omnis is sounding particularly right.

Definitely. I took an inexperienced stab at making a matrix of those two sources a while back, and thought they sounded best together than apart. There were some instruments that the on-stage mics just didn't pick up well but could be heard in the monitors, and the clarity afforded by the on-stage mics enhance the schoeps recording.

I ran spaced omnis (2.5 feet) and cards (ortf) both FOB in a small venue Friday. I definitely liked the sound of the cards on their own better than the omnis, but found that I prefer the omnis when mixed with the board feed I captured. I'll have to remember to post some samples once I get the ok to share this.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Omnis vs. Cards in small (150 capacity) room?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2022, 09:08:06 AM »
Yes. That's getting at what I've posted about in the past about combining sources, in that it tends to work best when the specifics of the content between them differs such that each provides whatever is lacking in the other.  If the SBD is good, SBD and omnis or another room/audience dominant arrangement can complement each other in this way more so than SBD and a directional pair pointed at the PA because each is providing aspects that the other is clearly lacking. And reciprocally, might do so with less potential conflict where the shared content is are otherwise very similar.

In contrast a directional AUD pair on its own in isolation can represent a better balance than either the omnis or SBD on their own. But with a PA directed AUD pair the balance between direct/reverberant, clarity/room-audience involvement, instrument and frequency balance is baked in, a consequence of recording position and microphone-configuration arranged so as to pick up a bit of everything with the intent of providing a well-balanced amount of each.

That's not to say the addition of omnis or SBD won't help an AUD pair, they obviously often do.  Only that when they do it is because whatever aspect they improve was lacking in the baked-in balance of the AUD pair to begin with.  If the AUD were perfect, those additions would be superfluous.

In a way, its two different philosophical approaches.  But each work together.

Combining the sources linked above, the FOB AUD serves to provide more SBD-like clarity, as well as acting like a room pair conveying great involved and layered audience reaction.

musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

 

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