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Author Topic: Unconventional Requirements (iPhone, Roland r-07, Shure MV88+, Zoom F3)  (Read 1503 times)

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Offline tonyjuliano

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 :cheers:Hello All…

I’m relatively new to the taper scene, and desire to learn as much as I can from all of you.  My desired outcome is something most here would probably find a bit unusual.

What I mean is that I want to start taping live performances, but with the end result being decent quality but not striving for anything approaching sonic perfection.  This is due to the following reasons…

  • I wish to document the “experience” over sonic clarity.  It’s more important to me to have a record of the overall “feel” of sessions in lieu of anything approaching sonic perfection.  Crowd noise, etc. is actually ok with me, as it would add to the unique characteristics of that particular session.  But…  I don’t want total garbage either, wishing to strike a balance between some modicum of performance, but retain overall experience of sessions.
  • Due to my age (fast approaching 60), and some past accident, my hearing ain’t in the best shape.  I have approx. 30% hearing loss in my left ear, to say nothing of what would be considered normal age-related loss in overall range.
  • I don’t want to “break the bank” on gear either.  It doesn’t make sense to me to commit to multiple thousands of dollars, given my aforementioned desired outcome.

This being stated, here is a list of gear I’ve been looking into, keeping in mind that recording will always be ‘stealthy”, and take place in small to medium sized venues at sometimes relatively high SPL (nothing crazy, think normal rock type shows).

Setup 1 - cheap and dirty
iPhone X with Apogee MetaRecorder and Sennheiser Ambeo Binaural headset (like the idea of having mics and monitoring capability in the same form factor).  Also adding Shure MV88+ for a “non-stealthy”, but more flexible option.

Setup 2 - mid tier
Roland r-07 with Roland cs-10em binaural headset (again, same form factor for mics and monitoring) - could also utilize battery box from setup 3, below, for louder venues.

Setup 3 - a bit more
Roland r-07 with mics and battery box from audioreality.com.  I realize similar offerings available from Church Audio and Sound Professionals are considered higher caliber, but don’t think the extra expense is warranted, in my particular situation.  In this setup, monitoring would take place using a medium quality IEM plugged into r-07 headphone jack.

Setup 4 - Tops (for me)
Zoom F3 with matched pair of condensers (TBD, but nothing too pricey - $100 to $200 range for the pair)

My plan is to purchase all gear mentioned above, therefore having 5 different setup options available to me for different opportunities.

I welcome all your expert advice, thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 02:37:39 PM by tonyjuliano »

Offline detroit lightning

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Re: New Taper / Unconventional Requirements
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2022, 08:38:10 AM »
Welcome!

What types of music do you plan to record?

I think your plan sounds great! I’m not familiar with that Sennheiser headset, but it sounds cool. The shure mv88 is another fairly inexpensive / iPhone based mic that might offer you some options.

Overall I’d say give it a shot, see what you like and what you don’t, and make some tweaks! Making the kind of recordings you’re looking for (or a a nice tape period) doesn’t require breaking the bank.

Have fun!

Offline tonyjuliano

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Re: New Taper / Unconventional Requirements
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2022, 11:44:20 AM »
Welcome!

What types of music do you plan to record?

I think your plan sounds great! I’m not familiar with that Sennheiser headset, but it sounds cool. The shure mv88 is another fairly inexpensive / iPhone based mic that might offer you some options.


Thanks for the welcome, and your suggestion.  I plan on recording mostly amplified music, in a variety of settings (everything from coffee shops to 200-300 seat venues) all types of music, from acoustic sets to rock shows.

The Shure looks intriguing, not as “stealthy” as the other options I listed, but worth looking into, thanks.

Offline roffels

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Re: New Taper / Unconventional Requirements
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2022, 05:29:47 PM »
I used Sound Professional's binaural mics for years, with a 12v battery box. I think binaural mics will suit your purposes well, only issue I've had is the binaurals don't handle really loud music well.

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: New Taper / Unconventional Requirements
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2022, 10:40:09 PM »
If you want super easy, and willing to give up a few notches on quality the Sennheiser Ambeo Headset will do the job. This is what I use if I'm unsure of the security situation, or I just don't care about making the best quality recording.

The mics are a few notches down from what others have posted here. Also they are discontinued, but from what I understand you can still find them if you look hard enough. I think I saw someone just bought a set for about $50. You'll need an iPhone or iPod touch though.

Here is an example of what they can do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3sHVgTBhOQ

||| MICS:  Beyer CK930 | DPA 4022 | DPA 4080 | Nevaton MCE400 | Sennheiser Ambeo Headset |||
||| PREAMPS: DPA d:vice | Naiant Tinybox | Naiant IPA |||
||| DECKS: Sound Devices MixPre6 | iPod Touch 32GB |||
|||Concert History || LMA Recordings || Live YouTube |||

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: New Taper / Unconventional Requirements
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2022, 07:35:32 AM »
You'll need an iPhone or iPod touch though.


They work with (most) Android devices with a suitable adapter.  See https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=184075.msg2368067#msg2368067 and subsequent posts.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2022, 07:40:03 AM by Ozpeter »

Offline tonyjuliano

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Re: New Taper / Unconventional Requirements
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2022, 09:44:39 AM »
If you want super easy, and willing to give up a few notches on quality the Sennheiser Ambeo Headset will do the job. This is what I use if I'm unsure of the security situation, or I just don't care about making the best quality recording.

The mics are a few notches down from what others have posted here. Also they are discontinued, but from what I understand you can still find them if you look hard enough. I think I saw someone just bought a set for about $50. You'll need an iPhone or iPod touch though.

Fortunately, didn’t have to look very hard…

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08F72P94X?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Question, though.  I’m a bit “put off” by the inability to fine tune input level, as there seems to be only the ability to select two coarser pre-set levels (“natural” or “reduce”).  Does the included software prevent (MetaRecorder) clipping dynamically? 

My limited playing around with it so far, in low SPL situation, has produced somewhat muted result.  I realize I can amplify this post, but wonder if I’m doing something wrong.

BTW…. Hats off to your organizational skills (referring to the way you’ve documented the shows you’ve attended, in the Google sheet linked in your sig), I’m definitely going to try to implement something akin to that.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2022, 09:47:52 AM by tonyjuliano »

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: New Taper / Unconventional Requirements
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2022, 01:07:48 PM »
^ I have had good luck with reduce levels setting. Your issue isn't levels that are too low, it will be too high. At the reduced level I'm usually peaking around -3 to 0 (occasionally over for a nearby screamer).

I haven't used these for a really loud show so you might have trouble in that dept.

Again...these aren't anywhere near the best option, but they get the job done, especially if trading in effort for quality is OK.
||| MICS:  Beyer CK930 | DPA 4022 | DPA 4080 | Nevaton MCE400 | Sennheiser Ambeo Headset |||
||| PREAMPS: DPA d:vice | Naiant Tinybox | Naiant IPA |||
||| DECKS: Sound Devices MixPre6 | iPod Touch 32GB |||
|||Concert History || LMA Recordings || Live YouTube |||

Offline heva

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Re: New Taper / Unconventional Requirements
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2022, 01:22:44 PM »
Regarding ‘a few notches down’ - a renowned recording engineer who knows his stuff guest an ambeo recording of mine was made with a neumann head.
Good enough quality :-)

Offline tonyjuliano

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Re: New Taper / Unconventional Requirements
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2022, 01:26:56 PM »
^ I have had good luck with reduce levels setting. Your issue isn't levels that are too low, it will be too high. At the reduced level I'm usually peaking around -3 to 0 (occasionally over for a nearby screamer).

I haven't used these for a really loud show so you might have trouble in that dept.

Again...these aren't anywhere near the best option, but they get the job done, especially if trading in effort for quality is OK.

I get it…. Kind of hard to see how it could respond in higher SPL, time will tell.

Regarding ‘a few notches down’ - a renowned recording engineer who knows his stuff guest an ambeo recording of mine was made with a neumann head.
Good enough quality :-)

Hoping!

Offline tonyjuliano

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Re: New Taper / Unconventional Requirements
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2022, 12:42:37 PM »
OK...  Revised my original post.  After much research, I've fallen totally in love with the perceived capability of the Zoom F3, and while it definitely wouldn't be anything close to "stealthy", this would definitely give me a quality option where being unobtrusive is not required (Festivals, and venues where taping is freely allowed).  Also, I've become intrigued by the Shure MV88+ setup (especially the video capabilities), and again - while not stealthy - present some options where the phone is my chosen method of recording.

Here is my updated setup listing, with additions highlighted in red (hoping some of you with experience with these specific units give opinions)...

Setup 1 - cheap and dirty
iPhone X with Apogee MetaRecorder and Sennheiser Ambeo Binaural headset (like the idea of having mics and monitoring capability in the same form factor).  Also adding Shure MV88+ for a “non-stealthy”, but more flexible option.

Setup 2 - mid tier
Roland r-07 with Roland cs-10em binaural headset (again, same form factor for mics and monitoring) - could also utilize battery box from setup 3, below, for louder venues.

Setup 3 - a bit more
Roland r-07 with mics and battery box from audioreality.com.  I realize similar offerings available from Church Audio and Sound Professionals are considered higher caliber, but don’t think the extra expense is warranted, in my particular situation.  In this setup, monitoring would take place using a medium quality IEM plugged into r-07 headphone jack.

Setup 4 - Tops (for me)
Zoom F3 with matched pair of condensers (TBD, but nothing too pricey - $100 to $200 range for the pair)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 01:39:19 PM by tonyjuliano »

Offline roffels

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Re: Unconventional Requirements (iPhone, Roland r-07, Shure MV88+, Zoom F3)
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2022, 01:48:15 PM »
Any reason you want to go with the r07 over something like the Sony A10?

I have both, and use the Roland r07 in a pinch, but the Sony A10 is much more stealthy, has a rock-solid bluetooth connection compared to the Roland, and also does both line-in and mic-in, while the Roland only does mic-in. If you don't care about the extra bulk or bluetooth, the roland should work well.

Offline tonyjuliano

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Re: Unconventional Requirements (iPhone, Roland r-07, Shure MV88+, Zoom F3)
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2022, 02:10:55 PM »
    Any reason you want to go with the r07 over something like the Sony A10?

    I have both, and use the Roland r07 in a pinch, but the Sony A10 is much more stealthy, has a rock-solid bluetooth connection compared to the Roland, and also does both line-in and mic-in, while the Roland only does mic-in. If you don't care about the extra bulk or bluetooth, the roland should work well.

    Yes, mainly price (I got a hold of a brand new, in the box r-07 for $100).

    The Sony seems to be superior in a lot of ways (has internal memory - plus sd, internal mics are more adjustable, dedicated
     line-in recording) but…
    • The r-07 BT has been rock solid for me (iPhone)
    • I actually prefer the form factor of the Roland
    • Roland does 2X wav record
    • Sony has non-replaceable battery, r-07 takes good old AA’s
    • Sony felt “cheaper” in the hand, to me
    Did I mention price?  :bigsmile:

    Thanks for taking the time to give input, the A10 would certainly be a better choice for a lot of people.[/list][/list]
    « Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 02:40:34 PM by tonyjuliano »

    Offline tonyjuliano

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    Re: Unconventional Requirements (iPhone, Roland r-07, Shure MV88+, Zoom F3)
    « Reply #13 on: September 26, 2022, 09:32:52 PM »
    Ok, I’ve had the Ambeo headset for a couple of days now, some thoughts…
    • They work pretty nicely for lower SPL stuff, walking about is pretty decent, moderate sound levels, etc.
    • The Apogee MetaRecorder app is top notch
    • Manual gain control would be nice, alas not happening
    • They DEFINITELY are not usable in high SPL environments
    • For what I paid - $65 - worth it to me
    Just received the rest the stuff for “setup 2”, anxious to see how it compares, as these are similar setups.
    « Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 09:43:34 PM by tonyjuliano »

    Offline aaronji

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    Re: Unconventional Requirements (iPhone, Roland r-07, Shure MV88+, Zoom F3)
    « Reply #14 on: September 27, 2022, 03:51:36 AM »
    It seems to me that there is a lot of overlap in your proposed set-ups. Why not start with one small and one larger rig and see where those are lacking before buying another? Personally, I would rather have one or two pairs of good mics than five pairs of lesser ones.

     

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