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Author Topic: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor  (Read 2315 times)

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Offline tobydodds

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In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« on: October 16, 2022, 10:54:25 AM »
I've linked an audio file, recorded last night at the 930 Club of Black Angels.

http://toby-dodds.com/content/sample.mp3

This audio was recorded using:

Sennheiser MKE 2-EW Gold - attached to left eyeglass
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/clip-on-lavalier-microphone-live-speech-instrument-mke-2

This was powered with a:
SP-SPSB-10 – Micro-mini 12v microphone power supply

This was connected to a Sony PCM A10 and recorded with low levels max peak at -20 and at 24.96.  And yet the audio sounds crunchy and distorted (sample attached).  This is my second failed capture in a row both times about 50' back from PA with loud sound (100+dbs).

In my research before buying, I found great sounding recordings made with this Senn mic in a rock concert setting.

My questions.

  • Is there a setting I'm missing in the A10?  I've set the mic in to manual and ran the levels on the low side.
  • Possible 12v's is too high - even though Sennheiser recommends 9-12v?
  • Mic is too sensitive or damaged somehow?

I would really appreciate some advice on what my next move is here.  I guess I'll try a different power supply, any advice?  I ordered a Church Audio Ugly Battery Box but that was a month ago and never heard back (yay).

Thanks all!

Offline RyanJ

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2022, 03:13:35 PM »
I think you wanted to go Audio In not Mic In?
http://www.ninlive.com
Mics: Schoeps MK4s, AT853 (4.7k mod)
Pre: Naiant IPA v1.0, Babynbox
Recorders: M10, A10, Zoom F8n, Marantz PMD-620 (Concert Mod), TCD-D8
Transfers: Nakamichi CR-3A, Tascam DA-20

Offline roffels

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2022, 03:15:24 PM »
This was powered with a:
SP-SPSB-10 – Micro-mini 12v microphone power supply

Check that the battery is in the correct orientation. Like most electronics, the spring usually goes on the negative terminal, but embossed instructions show it the opposite. Going by the instructions ruined my recording.

Offline beatkilla

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2022, 04:13:03 PM »
I have the MKE-2 ew (x2) are you using a single? If so i strongly recommend getting another to pair with it.

Anyways these can handle any stack metal show there is with a battery box with no chance of distortion(i'm using church ugly or https://soundprofessionals.com/product/SP-SPSB-8-MKII/

Maybe your batteries are dead in your battery box.


Im usually on Line In  not Mic input.



« Last Edit: October 16, 2022, 04:58:25 PM by beatkilla »

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2022, 05:59:42 PM »
I think you wanted to go Audio In not Mic In?

Beat me to it. Mic in with a battery box, especially with an omni mic, is likely to make for a mess even if the recorder itself isn't clipping.

Offline roffels

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2022, 06:17:31 PM »
I think you wanted to go Audio In not Mic In?

Beat me to it. Mic in with a battery box, especially with an omni mic, is likely to make for a mess even if the recorder itself isn't clipping.

Can you elaborate? I've heard folks say this a few times with the Sony a10, in my experience I just have a more audible noise floor going line-in instead of mic in.

Offline Scooter123

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2022, 11:37:26 PM »
With a Battery Box, Mic In or Line In?

I hate to give a lawyerly answer, but it depends.  My Baby NBox sounds better with Mic In rather than Line In, so the answer isn't clear.  I would record a bunch of shows or stand in front of your stereo speakers at a reasonably high volume and do some tests. 

The battery polarization is another issue, and without seeing your battery box, the springy thing is usually on the negative terminal (-) and the flat part is usually on the nipple looking terminal (+), but again, I don't know your battery box.  Try out different directions.  I would think that one would work and one would not. 

Bottom Line:  Test. 
Regards,
Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline jefflester

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2022, 11:54:20 PM »
I think you wanted to go Audio In not Mic In?

Beat me to it. Mic in with a battery box, especially with an omni mic, is likely to make for a mess even if the recorder itself isn't clipping.

Can you elaborate? I've heard folks say this a few times with the Sony a10, in my experience I just have a more audible noise floor going line-in instead of mic in.
Well it depends on the mic sensitivity, every set of mics is going to be different. If the mic output is too hot for the recorder preamp it's going to distort no matter what. That this recording was mic-in, with the levels set low, and the meters registering -20 dB, would all seem to point to that mic output was too hot for the recorder mic preamp. Needed to be line input ("audio in").
DPA4061 HEB/AT943 -> CA-UGLY -> R-09
AKG CK63 -> nBob actives -> Baby NBox -> R-09/DR2d
AKG CK63 -> AKG C460B -> Zoom F8/DR-680MKII
Samson C02/Superlux S502/iSK Little Gem/Sennheiser E609/Shure SM57 -> Zoom F8/DR-680MKII (multitracked band recordings)

Offline roffels

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2022, 12:14:21 AM »
This was powered with a:
SP-SPSB-10 – Micro-mini 12v microphone power supply

Check that the battery is in the correct orientation. Like most electronics, the spring usually goes on the negative terminal, but embossed instructions show it the opposite. Going by the instructions ruined my recording.

Just to elaborate, I use the same battery box as the original poster. Here's a sample of my ruined recording, with the battery installed per instruction but obviously incorrect. The distortion sounds pretty similar.
https://soundcloud.com/roffels/bon-iver-bad-battery

Offline roffels

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2022, 12:21:20 AM »
I think you wanted to go Audio In not Mic In?

Beat me to it. Mic in with a battery box, especially with an omni mic, is likely to make for a mess even if the recorder itself isn't clipping.

Can you elaborate? I've heard folks say this a few times with the Sony a10, in my experience I just have a more audible noise floor going line-in instead of mic in.
Well it depends on the mic sensitivity, every set of mics is going to be different. If the mic output is too hot for the recorder preamp it's going to distort no matter what. That this recording was mic-in, with the levels set low, and the meters registering -20 dB, would all seem to point to that mic output was too hot for the recorder mic preamp. Needed to be line input ("audio in").

If that was the case, wouldn't we see brickwalling in the waveform?

Offline tobydodds

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2022, 08:53:09 AM »
I have the MKE-2 ew (x2) are you using a single? If so i strongly recommend getting another to pair with it.

Anyways these can handle any stack metal show there is with a battery box with no chance of distortion(i'm using church ugly or https://soundprofessionals.com/product/SP-SPSB-8-MKII/

Maybe your batteries are dead in your battery box.


Im usually on Line In  not Mic input.

Thanks and the line vs mic sensitivity has to be it.  I was recording using MIC IN.  As a MKE-2 EW taper can you explain the advantage of the second mic?

This place rocks thanks for all the replied!  It's a shame I muddled through four live shows before getting this key piece of info in but oh well!  Of course the manual says nothing about using AUDIO IN for recording with a mic in a loud concert setting...

I'll get out there and record another show with AUDIO IN and share my results.  Hopefully that's it!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 09:08:13 AM by tobydodds »

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2022, 09:22:27 AM »

If that was the case, wouldn't we see brickwalling in the waveform?

Not necessarily, if it wasn't actually clipping but just freaking out the preamp. Though I will say that that waveform — with the bottom half of the wave severely unbalanced relative to the top — looks a lot like I've gotten at times with failing batteries, so it's possible this was an underpowered-mics issue too.

Question for the OP: What gain setting did you have the A10 on, do you remember? That would go a long way toward helping figure out if the problem here was the preamp being overloaded or the mics.

Offline tobydodds

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2022, 09:25:10 AM »
Question for the OP: What gain setting did you have the A10 on, do you remember? That would go a long way toward helping figure out if the problem here was the preamp being overloaded or the mics.

I had the MIC IN set to MANUAL and then rode the levels super low, based on feedback I saw elsewhere - the peak levels was about -20 in that sample I provided.  The Auto-Gain settings on the A10 are HIGH, MEDIUM, and LOW but I didn't use them.

Offline mountainhop

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2022, 09:29:40 AM »
(most) battery boxes arent preamps, and dont make the signal louder

that said if you had the battery in the box and had mic in you were putting plug in power to an (already compromised) circuit and perhaps that would cause the results

as someone mentioned, test at home.

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2022, 11:13:55 AM »
Question for the OP: What gain setting did you have the A10 on, do you remember? That would go a long way toward helping figure out if the problem here was the preamp being overloaded or the mics.

I had the MIC IN set to MANUAL and then rode the levels super low, based on feedback I saw elsewhere - the peak levels was about -20 in that sample I provided.  The Auto-Gain settings on the A10 are HIGH, MEDIUM, and LOW but I didn't use them.

Sorry, I wasn't clear: I meant what number did you have to set the recording level to on the A10 to get it to peak at -20? That wouldn't have affected the recording, but it would tell us whether you were getting a fully powered signal or not.

 

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