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Author Topic: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor  (Read 2272 times)

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Offline tobydodds

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2022, 11:29:54 AM »
I was at 11 or 12 but the sample I provided had been boosted using Audacity > Effects > Amplify to get to that level.  I really do think the MIC IN setting was the issue.  I can't wait to go back out and try again.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 11:33:52 AM by tobydodds »

Offline mountainhop

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2022, 11:47:21 AM »
why wait? easy to troubleshoot at home

Offline tobydodds

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2022, 11:53:33 AM »
You make a good point.  I will crank some tunes and make a sample for us to listen to.  THANKS!

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2022, 02:05:38 PM »
Is there a difference between the mic in on the M10 and A10? If not, I'm skeptical that the mic in on the A10 was the issue. That sounds like improperly powered mics to me

Offline tobydodds

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2022, 02:34:40 PM »
Is there a difference between the mic in on the M10 and A10? If not, I'm skeptical that the mic in on the A10 was the issue. That sounds like improperly powered mics to me

You deserve a prize I think and also kudos to the push towards testing at home.  Why on Earth I felt like I could only test at a show is something I'm kicking myself over.  So I just bought this new rig of Senn mic (do I need two really?), A10 and SP power supply, but after doing these tests I was able to figure out that the battery on the SP was dead (the one that shipped with the SP out of the box!).  That was the issue it would appear.

Here's the testing sequence with samples.

Test 1 - MIC-IN, old battery - the one that arrived with the SP-SPSB-10 - levels cranked which was a clue
http://toby-dodds.com/content/audio_test/01_external_mic_in_w_old_battery.mp3

Test 2 - AUDIO/LINE-IN, old battery - the one that arrived with the SP-SPSB-10 - levels cranked and barely any signal, a further clue
http://toby-dodds.com/content/audio_test/02_external_line_in_w_old_battery.mp3

Test 3 - Figured these levels were weird, bypassed the SP and the levels were much better
http://toby-dodds.com/content/audio_test/03_external_mic_in_w_no_battery.mp3

Test 4 - Finally opened up the SP and replaced the battery - this time with MIC-IN, much better levels
http://toby-dodds.com/content/audio_test/04_external_mic_in_w_new_battery.mp3

Test 5 - Finally opened up the SP and replaced the battery - this time with AUDIO/LINE-IN, still good levels THIS WILL WORK!!!
http://toby-dodds.com/content/audio_test/05_external_line_in_w_new_battery.mp3

Thanks for helping me go further folks.  Had I just done AUDIO/LINE-IN I would have been stuck with another busted recording.  Now, I feel like I'm good.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 03:11:03 PM by tobydodds »

Offline roffels

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2022, 04:02:23 PM »
So I just bought this new rig of Senn mic (do I need two really?),
Glad you sorted this out.

Regarding that mic, I'm not sure how you'd be able to rig up two of those mics to work with the Sony PCM A10 because both it and the battery box have a single stereo input (maybe some of the more experienced folks can make some recommendations - would a y-cable be sufficient?)

I think people are recommending another microphone so you can do stereo recordings. But if you're happy with the mono recording, that's all that really matters.

Offline jefflester

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2022, 04:32:19 PM »
So I just bought this new rig of Senn mic (do I need two really?),
Glad you sorted this out.

Regarding that mic, I'm not sure how you'd be able to rig up two of those mics to work with the Sony PCM A10 because both it and the battery box have a single stereo input (maybe some of the more experienced folks can make some recommendations - would a y-cable be sufficient?)

I think people are recommending another microphone so you can do stereo recordings. But if you're happy with the mono recording, that's all that really matters.

A proper Y-cable (TRS plug to L/R mono TS jacks) would be sufficient. Funny that the Sennheiser site says "jack" for the type of plug, presumably that (and the SP battery box already in use) means it is a mono 1/8" (3.5mm) plug for the mic. Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Seismic-Audio-SA-iEM2EF-Splitter-Android/dp/B008RPIPSE/ref=sr_1_7_sspa?crid=1CTZA7BIBC238&keywords=3.5mm%2By-cable&qid=1666038461&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIwLjAwIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&s=electronics&sprefix=3.5mm%2By-cable%2Celectronics%2C145&sr=1-7-spons&smid=A7KODY9T0BTOM&th=1

Just need to make sure the split is to left and right (female mono jacks) and not just a Y-cable intended for splitting say a headphone output into two because that would not maintain the individual left/right channels.

Glad to hear you figured out the battery issue.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 04:39:34 PM by jefflester »
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Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2022, 05:12:56 PM »
I was able to figure out that the battery on the SP was dead (the one that shipped with the SP out of the box!).  That was the issue it would appear.

Glad you were able to narrow it down. I know for a fact that it's not necessary, but I change my my power battery every show out of pure paranoia. Costco batteries ftw

Offline roffels

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2022, 05:16:20 PM »
I was able to figure out that the battery on the SP was dead (the one that shipped with the SP out of the box!).  That was the issue it would appear.

Glad you were able to narrow it down. I know for a fact that it's not necessary, but I change my my power battery every show out of pure paranoia. Costco batteries ftw
I bought one of these so I wouldn't have to be so paranoid or trash fine batteries. https://www.amazon.com/D-FantiX-Battery-Universal-Checker-Batteries/dp/B014FEM0X6/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2V0NALI4P6LP8&keywords=battery+tester&qid=1666041323&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI1LjA1IiwicXNhIjoiMy45NyIsInFzcCI6IjMuNzAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=battery+tester%2Caps%2C122&sr=8-5

Offline Scooter123

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2022, 05:30:19 PM »
I was able to figure out that the battery on the SP was dead (the one that shipped with the SP out of the box!).  That was the issue it would appear.

Glad you were able to narrow it down. I know for a fact that it's not necessary, but I change my my power battery every show out of pure paranoia. Costco batteries ftw
I bought one of these so I wouldn't have to be so paranoid or trash fine batteries. https://www.amazon.com/D-FantiX-Battery-Universal-Checker-Batteries/dp/B014FEM0X6/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2V0NALI4P6LP8&keywords=battery+tester&qid=1666041323&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI1LjA1IiwicXNhIjoiMy45NyIsInFzcCI6IjMuNzAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=battery+tester%2Caps%2C122&sr=8-5

Yep, that is the one I have as well, actually two of them.  I check my batteries EVERY TIME I tape.  I use low batteries for TV remotes and such. 
Regards,
Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2022, 06:32:38 PM »
I was able to figure out that the battery on the SP was dead (the one that shipped with the SP out of the box!).  That was the issue it would appear.

Glad you were able to narrow it down. I know for a fact that it's not necessary, but I change my my power battery every show out of pure paranoia. Costco batteries ftw
I bought one of these so I wouldn't have to be so paranoid or trash fine batteries. https://www.amazon.com/D-FantiX-Battery-Universal-Checker-Batteries/dp/B014FEM0X6/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2V0NALI4P6LP8&keywords=battery+tester&qid=1666041323&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI1LjA1IiwicXNhIjoiMy45NyIsInFzcCI6IjMuNzAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=battery+tester%2Caps%2C122&sr=8-5

I've thought about that, but I'm some combination of too lazy and still too paranoid, not to mention I don't know the crossover point of db:mic power, nor do I know if drain on a 9v is linear.

Offline beatkilla

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2022, 06:51:19 PM »
So I just bought this new rig of Senn mic (do I need two really?),
Glad you sorted this out.

Regarding that mic, I'm not sure how you'd be able to rig up two of those mics to work with the Sony PCM A10 because both it and the battery box have a single stereo input (maybe some of the more experienced folks can make some recommendations - would a y-cable be sufficient?)

I think people are recommending another microphone so you can do stereo recordings. But if you're happy with the mono recording, that's all that really matters.


You need two for stereo , one is just mono.

This is the battery box i use with 2  sennhesier lavs. Works perfect.

Has 2 inputs.

 https://soundprofessionals.com/product/SP-SPSB-8-MKII/


Good luck and i'm glad you figured out the problem. :headphones:

Offline tobydodds

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2022, 08:27:28 PM »
Thanks again Taper Doctors.  I'm truly on my way and will record with AUDIO IN and with a working battery on the mic!

On the stereo vs. mono question though, I'm sorry I'm struggling to see this as a necessity.  When I'm recording I'm typically positioning myself in front of one of two PA stacks - which itself is mixed to mono as far as I can reason.  I don't see how having two of the same mic positioned the width of my head apart is any different sonically.  If two channel is the goal, I could even duplicate the single channel and fake stereo.  Wouldn't that be the same really?  I guess what I'm saying in stealth mode does stereo really make a difference of the mics are just the width of my glasses apart?

Please just tell me that the difference is noticeable.  If that's the case is it better by a large degree would you say?

And finally last question if you're using the Senn's do you use the caps that were provided?  I can't get a read on whether those are beneficial or not in a rock club environment.  Why put something over the mic if there's no wind?

EDITED TO ADD - I just ordered another Sennheiser MKE 2EW Gold so I will be going true stereo.  Chris at Sound Pros said "Well, a good stereo recoding has more depth than a mono recoding. TO your point, the width of your head is not much separation. However, if you place the mics on either side of your head, so that your head is between the mics, you will get a very realistic recording, with excellent separation - very close to a true binaural recoding."
« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 08:54:11 PM by tobydodds »

Offline roffels

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2022, 09:27:01 PM »
Thanks again Taper Doctors.  I'm truly on my way and will record with AUDIO IN and with a working battery on the mic!

On the stereo vs. mono question though, I'm sorry I'm struggling to see this as a necessity.  When I'm recording I'm typically positioning myself in front of one of two PA stacks - which itself is mixed to mono as far as I can reason.  I don't see how having two of the same mic positioned the width of my head apart is any different sonically.  If two channel is the goal, I could even duplicate the single channel and fake stereo.  Wouldn't that be the same really?  I guess what I'm saying in stealth mode does stereo really make a difference of the mics are just the width of my glasses apart?

Please just tell me that the difference is noticeable.  If that's the case is it better by a large degree would you say?

And finally last question if you're using the Senn's do you use the caps that were provided?  I can't get a read on whether those are beneficial or not in a rock club environment.  Why put something over the mic if there's no wind?

EDITED TO ADD - I just ordered another Sennheiser MKE 2EW Gold so I will be going true stereo.  Chris at Sound Pros said "Well, a good stereo recoding has more depth than a mono recoding. TO your point, the width of your head is not much separation. However, if you place the mics on either side of your head, so that your head is between the mics, you will get a very realistic recording, with excellent separation - very close to a true binaural recoding."

I'm not familiar with the Sennheiser microphones, but yes, stereo makes a big difference even in less-than-ideal recording situations. Chris @ Sound Pro is right, your head makes a good baffle, if you can discern stereo with just two ears with a head in-between, why not two mics a head apart?

I'm not saying this is an amazing recording or anything, but this is a tape I made with binaural mics: https://archive.org/details/Dosh2019-12-27/01-Copy+That.flac
Granted, that's pretty close to the stage, so the stereo separation is pretty extreme, but even for shows further back, you still get stereo information from the room, reverb, the audience, etc.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 09:34:54 PM by roffels »

Offline tobydodds

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Re: In Need of A Stealth Taping Doctor
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2022, 09:37:33 PM »
Thanks for taping Dosh.  I love Dosh!  His last album Forever 1972 is incredible.  Your tape sounds perfect too.  The Sennheiser's I chose have a really punchy sound that I loved when previewing samples.  I mostly end up taping loud rock shows so I think they will fit the bill quite well and in stereo all the better...

 

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