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Author Topic: 3 mic (LCR) distance  (Read 727 times)

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 3 mic (LCR) distance
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2022, 01:33:44 PM »
^You're fully into the optimized multichannel thing.. exploring the logical extreme of the thing much as I do.  I hesitate to suggest most folks go that far.  Its fun though!

One more general thought-
Like most things, the key is gravitating to the "just right" mid-point between extremes.  Not too much spacing or angle, yet also not too little.  Not too many channels, but neither too few.

The multi-microphone array I recommend to most folks wanting to try using more than two microphones in combination is four channels total: a coincident center pair placed in between a "mid"-spaced pair using spacing twice as wide as a typical near-spaced pair used on its own.  That represents a practical, not overly complex arrangement not difficult for tapers to achieve.  The better it sounds in the room at the recording position, the more open of a pickup pattern can be used in the twice-near spaced pair.  And the more open the pair the wider it should be.  Not that complicated.

The coincident pair does a nice job with imaging and center solidarity that might otherwise be weak in the twice-wide pair.  The twice-wide pair does a nice job providing an open ambient feel a coincident pair often tends to lack.  Because both in combination serve to cover the weaknesses of the other, each of them need not be as perfectly configured as they otherwise would need to be when used on their own in isolation.

Same guidelines for spacing as the 3-microphone configurations discussed above, but the coincident pair in the center instead of a single microphone is a big advantage in my experience.  For those suspicious of arrays of more than 2 microphones, this is what I'd suggest trying. It works really well in practical terms for concert taper scenarios.  Try it and see if you like it.  It's perfectly okay not to like it, but try it first in a few taper scenarios, give mixing the two pairs a bit of listening effort, and then decide if its something you like and worthwhile or not.
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Offline Chanher

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Re: 3 mic (LCR) distance
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2022, 03:42:21 PM »
A lot of excellent information and history in this thread, thanks guys.

My preferred approach is to take in as much info and theory as you can, then throw it out the window and go tape. set up however you want. If you keep taping and learning you'll have good results.

I'm planning a low-profile homemade 3 mic bar in my head, will post pics.
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Offline Chanher

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SAMPLES: 3 mic (LCR) distance
« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 02:23:37 PM »
I recorded Fleece, a fun 4 piece from Montreal the other week and the stars aligned for a 3 mic LCR in the "sweet spot" + mono soundboard. I thought I'd share some samples so everyone can hear and compare a stereo pair, a 3 mic mix, and a 3 mic mix + a soundboard feed.

This was at Lost Lake in Denver and it is a smaller dive venue. The room is a bit odd as it's more wide than long, BUT that means the "sweet spot" is much more accessible as it is literally right where the soundboard is (slightly LOC but only 25-30 ft from the stage/PA). Chris the soundguy let me put my mic stand up on the actual table (legs closed) and taped to the corner which pretty much puts it pretty much DFC. Perfect spot.

CM4's are ~28cm apart at ~40 degrees and I ran them into the MP2
C4 hyper as center mic (bass roll off switch engaged), about an inch ahead of the CM4's. Straight into the dr70d

I have 4 different samples:

01 stereo CM4 pair (normalized)
02 mono C4 hyper with bass roll off switch engaged (normalized)
03 3 mic LCR with some slight EQing and normalized
04 3 mic LCR mix + mono soundboard mastered, EQ'd, and normalized

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/akf2ez14mg7vthk1fdfv5/h?dl=0&rlkey=6zctnokzb1aylf65qv3g8potm

Sorry for the crappy pics, my phone's camera is all screwed up and it took me forever to just to get these crappy pics. All my money has gone to gear so no new phone haha.
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Offline Chanher

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SAMPLES: 3 mic (LCR) distance
« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 02:53:31 PM »
some notes:

-I didn't put a sample of the mono soundboard feed, if anyone wants to hear that lmk. I was expecting the usual vocal-heavy mix, but it was actually very keyboard heavy. I did my best to even it out with compression and EQ but I'm still somewhat inexperienced with these tools. As many of you know, mixing in uneven soundboard feeds is a little dangerous; it very often has a negative effect on the actual MIX of the instruments. We naturally want to improve our recordings and the clarity of a soundboard feed technically does that but at what cost? If it upsets the balance of instruments and vocals (some instruments suddenly are clear and upfront while the others are distant and quieter) is that actually improving the recording? I'm still undecided if the sample with the sbd is listenable as I do feel the keyboard is a bit louder than the other instruments. Opinions and critiques are welcome.

-I should definitely mention that even though I had the center mono hyper ~1 inch AHEAD of the CM4's (as recommended), I ended up visually lining up snare hits on ALL sources/feeds. I did some quick listening to the 3 mic mix with the center mic left alone and then with it visually aligned (the actual difference was miniscule) and if I'm being honest I didn't hear any difference so I left it lined up. I know Gutbucket talked about moving the center mic forward more in relation to the distance of the outside (left right) stereo pair and perhaps in future recordings I can experiment with that.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 07:32:07 PM by Chanher »
Line Audio CM4
AT853Rx (c,h) > AT8533x
Studio Projects C4 (c,o)

Sound Devices MP-2
bm2p+ Edirol UA-5

Tascam DR-70D
Marantz Oade Warm Mod PMD661
Iriver

 

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