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Offline ejl6495

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Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« on: November 03, 2022, 01:26:11 PM »
I'm upgrading slightly from my current set up:
Channels 1 & 2 AT 3031's Cardioids (two inner positions on my stereo bar approximately 4" apart) > Zoom F6
Channels 3 & 4 Line Audio OMN1's omnis (two outer positions on my stereo bar approximately 15" apart) >Zoom F6
*Channel 5: Rode Vidmic Pro* > Zoom F6 (ziptied to the bar as a center channel) *Only did this twice*
Stereo bar link: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MicMntBar4--gator-frameworks-gfwmic1to4-frameworks-1-to-4-mic-mount-bar

I just ordered the Vanguard V1's pair which can be used as: cardioid, wide cardioid, hypercardioid, or omni mics with the various caps it comes with
V1 ink:https://www.vanguardaudiolabs.com/products/v1-pencil-condenser-kit/

I ordered two double Stereo bars that i am going to MacGyver onto my current stereo bar (wish me luck). This will give me approximately 8" more on each side for an overall total of 31" with a total of 6 Mic threads.

My current game plan (for upcoming indoor stadium show at Nassau Coliseum sitting front row center bowl):

Innermost mic positions to remain AT3031 Cards PAS 4" seperation
Middle two mic positions V1's (hypercard caps) PAS 15" seperation
Outermost mic positions Line audio OMN1 omnis A/B 31" seperation

My main question being: is there a more optimal set up here with the options i already have? Open to any and all recommendations/ tips/ tricks!

I'm a new taper and new to this forum so I apologize if this isn't the right place for this!

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2022, 02:35:35 PM »
So far, I like your approach. Obviously, you could use the Vangaurd omnis, but that loses two mics on you.
As far as wide mounting options, we use 15mm camera rails to get 4 feet of separation, but those may be too small for the Line Audio's. iirc, there are 19mm camera rails.
This is what we use:
https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-alloy-pair-of-15mm-rods-m12-12inch-1053.html                use with corresponding threaded connectors
question for you:
Quote
*Channel 5: Rode Vidmic Pro* > Zoom F6 (ziptied to the bar as a center channel) *Only did this twice*
Someone ran one of those inside of four channels of mics in front of us at Phil & Friends Friday 10-28 at the Cap. Was that you?
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E|DPA 4060 SK
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline ejl6495

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Re: Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2022, 02:54:14 PM »
I don't want to use mics just because I have them necessarily, my best pull so far (TTB 10/3/22) was using just the cards that I rigged to a hat. I've considered running the AT3031s and the V1 Omnis in a 4 channel set up. But at the same time, I think that the hypercards will be a great benefit in an indoor stadium setting (Long Island loves to talk during shows). Thats why I'm leaning towards the 6 channel set up with my existing omni's and the new V1 hypercards

Quote
*Channel 5: Rode Vidmic Pro* > Zoom F6 (ziptied to the bar as a center channel) *Only did this twice*
Someone ran one of those inside of four channels of mics in front of us at Phil & Friends Friday 10-28 at the Cap. Was that you?


Sure was! I was really unhappy with my 10/16 Phil tape and someone recommended running a center channel. It seemed to help significantly with the overall sound I achieved on my 10/28 & 10/31 tapes (couldn't tell you how or why lol, but it did). Next time you see me I wont have those crazy heavy XLR's either, got myself some GAK cables so I don't have to worry about the weight on my stand ever again -_-

tapes are over at LMA if you want to hear the difference in sound quality: https://archive.org/details/@ejl95 (10/28 came out better than 10/31)

Offline fireonshakedwnstreet

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Re: Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2022, 03:05:54 PM »
Welcome to OMT! Hopefully our master of ceremonies, gutbucket, chimes in here. I have attached some of his diagrams here for reference.

I agree with rock on the camera rails; they are portable, lightweight, and sturdy. With a 31" spread I would run the omnis all the way at the end of the bar, the hypers in middle, X-Y, PAS, and the cards spread about 18" inches at a 45 degree angle or so, PAS. The omnis probably will get a bit boomy in a place like Nassau, but a bluegrass outfit could always use a little bass boost. You may want to mix those down 6db or so in the final mix depending on how they sound.
Mics: AT 3031; AT 853Rx (c, o); CA-14(c); Naiant X-R (h); Studio Projects C4 (c, o, h); Nak 300/Tascam PE-125/JVC M510 (cp-1, cp-2, cp-3, JVC M510 superdirectional caps)
Recorders: Tascam DR-680 MkII; Tascam DR-70D; Tascam DR-5; Tascam DR-2D
Pres: Edirol UA-5 (Oade PMod & WMod); Marantz PMD661 (OCM); Naiant MidBox

Offline ejl6495

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Re: Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2022, 03:26:10 PM »
Welcome to OMT!

someone recommended running a center channel
^^^
Speaking of someone

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2022, 05:22:40 PM »
I just ordered the Vanguard V1's pair which can be used as: cardioid, wide cardioid, hypercardioid, or omni mics with the various caps it comes with
V1 ink:https://www.vanguardaudiolabs.com/products/v1-pencil-condenser-kit/

[snip]

My current game plan (for upcoming indoor stadium show at Nassau Coliseum sitting front row center bowl):

Innermost mic positions to remain AT3031 Cards PAS 4" seperation
Middle two mic positions V1's (hypercard caps) PAS 15" seperation
Outermost mic positions Line audio OMN1 omnis A/B 31" seperation

My main question being: is there a more optimal set up here with the options i already have? Open to any and all recommendations/ tips/ tricks!

I'm a new taper and new to this forum so I apologize if this isn't the right place for this!

Ahoy!

You are jumping in the deep end straight away to advanced multichannel microphone array recording techniques!   I strongly suggest focusing on 4 microphones first, which is already complicated and two more than most tapers use.  Most would strongly argue it best to start with, even stick with, just two mics and they have a very valid point.  Still, I totally get it and like the other folks who've chimed in and tend run multiple channels of microphones, we are here to support you, as much through our mistakes as through our successes.  Four channels of micrphones is something of a sweet spot between complexity and welcome flexibility and it will be best to get to know how and what works there before complicating things further. 

I suggest trying this:
1) Run either your AT30301 pair or V1 hyper pair as X/Y in the center in PAS.  If you can't achieve a coincident arrangement in the center without a bunch of hassle, run them with the least amount of spacing between them that you are able to arrange, but figure out a way to run them X/Y at some point.  This will provide a solid center image and eliminate the need for an additional dedicated center microphone channel, yet is likely to sound rather narrow on its own in isolation. That's a necessary compromise that better optimizes things when that pair is intended to be combined with another wide-spaced pair rather than being used by itself.

2a) Outdoors or in really good acoustics, use either set of your omnis in the 31" wide position.  Go even wider if you can. Combination with the center pair allows that.

2b) Indoors, with talkative crowds (go up high) or less than great acoustics, swap out the omnis for increasingly directional patterns depending on the severity of the situation, pointed forward but with some angle between them.  The worse the situation, the more directional and PAS they should be.  The capsule selection of the V1's will allow you lots of flexibility with that.  Keep them as wide as you are able to go with whatever bar you are using. [edit- The V1 wide-cards may be especially useful there as they are likely to have good bass extension closer to what omnis provide]



Working just within the above arrangement will give you a whole lot of options to play around with. Swap between both sets of omnis to see which you like better, swap between cardioid pairs, swap the AT cards for the V1 hypers, and change the wide position pattern from omnis to more directional as needed indoors.  All that will be very good to get in depth experience with before making things more complicated.  And this is just on the recording side of things.  You'll also have a lot of options to play around and experience to gain on the mixing side of things.

Adding additional channels will be far more beneficial once you've figure out what works best and what doesn't with just a few though experience.

^If this argument isn't convincing enough, here's a more technical one- The combination of spacing and mic patterns you currently list as available to you are not really sufficient to run as an optimized 6 channel arrangement, unless one or two of the additional mics are pointed rearward. 
« Last Edit: November 03, 2022, 05:36:44 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2022, 05:32:07 PM »
Welcome to OMT! Hopefully our master of ceremonies, gutbucket, chimes in here. I have attached some of his diagrams here for reference.

Thanks.  FYI, those PDF's are the older versions.  I've not yet updated the OMT link in my signature, but some of the new PDFs I'm working on were posted over the summer in the current OMT thread.

The first one you linked (p 1-3) hasn't changed too much except for some portions of the overview, but the second (p 4-6) has changed more significantly.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline ejl6495

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Re: Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2022, 10:29:43 AM »
The combination of spacing and mic patterns you currently list as available to you are not really sufficient to run as an optimized 6 channel arrangement, unless one or two of the additional mics are pointed rearward.

Thank you for:
A) These sweet resources
B) Chiming in on this thread.

I did my homework and some tinkering last night to see which of these options are most viable for me. With my current equipment it seems like my most viable option is the bottom technique from OMT P. 3, with the 2nd and 3rd technique from the top of OMT P.5 being my secondary choices based on what my gear is capable of.

Based on your recommendation of sticking to 4 channels, option 1 makes the most sense and I will likely run:
Channel 1 & 2: Either my V1 hyper OR sub-cardioid in the center position in XY with
Channel 3 & 4: OMN1 Omnis 31" Apart OR my AT3031 Cards (once I can make a judgement call on how talky the theater will be)

I see the 2nd option from the top on P. 5 is labeled as "not generally recommended" so i'll leave that as an option to mess around with at a less important show one day.

Looking to the 3rd option from the top on P. 5 my question is:
If I'm running:
Channel 1 & 2: Either my V1 hyper or sub-cardioid in the center position in XY with
Channel 3 & 4: OMN1 Omnis 31" Apart

why not just run it with:
Channel 5 & 6: AT3031 Cardioids in the rear facing position ?

Maybe I'm overly eager, but I feel like I have nothing to lose trying this. My recorder can support it, and I have the equipment. In a worst case scenario, I can just scrap those two channels entirely in post. I have 0 technical understanding of why/ how a rear facing cardioid would be beneficial but I have no problem yielding to your experience/ knowledge in trying it. Until last night I had never even considered rear facing mics, because it seems so counter intuitive to me. Everything I've learned about taping I've learned from other tapers on the internet so I'm always willing to take their advice and try things out of my comfort zone. If there's something I'm missing here, please let me know.

Thank you again for your advice/ these resources. It is extremely helpful & appreciated.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2022, 11:41:18 AM »
Throw those older PDFs out.  Here are current versions up through 6 channels-

Answers to your questions in posts to follow..
« Last Edit: November 04, 2022, 12:51:22 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2022, 12:02:57 PM »
Based on your recommendation of sticking to 4 channels, option 1 makes the most sense and I will likely run:
Channel 1 & 2: Either my V1 hyper OR sub-cardioid in the center position in XY with
Channel 3 & 4: OMN1 Omnis 31" Apart OR my AT3031 Cards (once I can make a judgement call on how talky the theater will be)

Best to use hypers in the center X/Y position for PAS.  Cardioids work there too, but best if they can be angled 90 degrees apart for this (and ideally more than that if that pair was to be used in isolation).  Subcards are less ideal in the center position and not really directional enough for X/Y from a distance.

Use your omnis, sub-cards, or cards in the 31" wide position.  Unfortunately choice of pattern there isn't going to affect how much distracted/taking audience you pick up by all that much, unless you are setup on stage or at the stage lip.  What is going to help most with audience noise is a closer recording position and/or getting the mics up higher above the audience.

What changing between patterns in the wide-position will effect most strongly is how much room sound is included verses how much direct focus on the PA there is.  In a really crappy, reverberant, boomy sounding room, the most directional mics you have pointed at the PA will work best.  In a good sounding room wider patterns in that wide mic position provides that goodness, while the center pair retains strong forward focus and a solid center.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2022, 12:50:31 PM »
Quote
I see the 2nd option from the top on P. 5 is labeled as "not generally recommended" so i'll leave that as an option to mess around with at a less important show one day.

Things change!  A modified variation on that arrangement (with the near-spaced directional pair angled forward at around +/-45 deg instead of facing directly toward the sides at +/-90 deg) is now the 6 channel arrangement I generally recommend to other tapers.  See the new PDFs. 

The only problem with doing that is you should ideally use more spacing than you have available between the center pair and those mics, and between those mics and the wide-position mics.  Because that spacing is limited, the arrangement with four forward facing mics is probably going to work better, because you can then get the near-spaced pair wide enough so that it should work better in combination with the center X/Y pair.

Quote
If I'm running:
Channel 1 & 2: Either my V1 hyper or sub-cardioid[my strike-out edit] in the center position in XY with
Channel 3 & 4: OMN1 Omnis 31" Apart

why not just run it with:
Channel 5 & 6: AT3031 Cardioids in the rear facing position ?

Maybe I'm overly eager, but I feel like I have nothing to lose trying this. My recorder can support it, and I have the equipment. In a worst case scenario, I can just scrap those two channels entirely in post. I have 0 technical understanding of why/ how a rear facing cardioid would be beneficial but I have no problem yielding to your experience/ knowledge in trying it. Until last night I had never even considered rear facing mics, because it seems so counter intuitive to me. Everything I've learned about taping I've learned from other tapers on the internet so I'm always willing to take their advice and try things out of my comfort zone. If there's something I'm missing here, please let me know.

Yes, your thinking is correct there.  If it were an outdoor show I'd say go for it as an optimal use of available mics and channels with nothing to loose.  But indoors the omnis can be iffy.  They can work, but you are likely to get better results using something more directional in the wide position.  That's more important that using all channels and/or rear-facing mics.  If you use the V1 hypers in X/Y, I'd use your AT cardioids in the wide position, or the other way around, which is something that will be good to experiment with over the course of a few indoor shows. 

It would be ideal to have an additional pair of V1 amplifier bodies so that you could use the hypers coincident in the center and be able to choose between omnis, sub-cards, and cardioids in the wide position.


What you might do with the 5th channel is use your Rode rear-facing.  It is a supercard and hopefully capable of rejecting enough front-arriving sound to be useful in that role.  Won't hurt and you can always just discard that channel. A rear-facing channel or pair will be far more sensitive to distracted audience noise and talking though, and indoors it may or may not be useful due to the acoustics even if the audience is ideal, but it can be useful indoors as long as there is space behind the recording position.  Outdoors it has a much better chance of providing some nice openness, depth, extra dimension, and audience naturalness.  If you do that, when mixing it, bring that channel up last after you have everything else working nicely, and play around with adding just a touch of it, not much. Rear-facing channels tend to be best when their contribution is at the edge of perception and only noticed in their absence once muted.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2022, 01:12:25 PM »
Other reasonable option for running all 6 channels is to use both omni and directional mic pairs in the 31" wide position.  In that case instead of getting the omnis far enough away from the directional pair, they should instead be arranged to be as coincident on each side with each other as possible.  The capsules should be as close together as possible, but it can help to angle the omnis in a different direction as far as possible (preferably pointed out to the sides or rearward, with the directional mics PAS or +/-45 deg).  That will help reduce the potential for high frequency cancellation between pairs.  In this case, the omnis will be used mostly for bass response anyway, secondly for additional room response.

Practically, that puts more weight out wide, and more wires running out there, but this might make for a better use of all available channels than a rear facing microphone in a chatty indoor space.  Generally I get better results when the omnis can be spaced much wider than the directional channels, but this is yet another option available for you.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2022, 01:15:17 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2022, 02:03:21 PM »
I don't want to use mics just because I have them necessarily, my best pull so far (TTB 10/3/22) was using just the cards that I rigged to a hat. I've considered running the AT3031s and the V1 Omnis in a 4 channel set up. But at the same time, I think that the hypercards will be a great benefit in an indoor stadium setting (Long Island loves to talk during shows). Thats why I'm leaning towards the 6 channel set up with my existing omni's and the new V1 hypercards

Quote
*Channel 5: Rode Vidmic Pro* > Zoom F6 (ziptied to the bar as a center channel) *Only did this twice*
Someone ran one of those inside of four channels of mics in front of us at Phil & Friends Friday 10-28 at the Cap. Was that you?


Sure was! I was really unhappy with my 10/16 Phil tape and someone recommended running a center channel. It seemed to help significantly with the overall sound I achieved on my 10/28 & 10/31 tapes (couldn't tell you how or why lol, but it did). Next time you see me I wont have those crazy heavy XLR's either, got myself some GAK cables so I don't have to worry about the weight on my stand ever again -_-

tapes are over at LMA if you want to hear the difference in sound quality: https://archive.org/details/@ejl95 (10/28 came out better than 10/31)
Well then, nice to meet you and Welcome to TS!
I have been following the thread ANd GB's replies to you. One thing about rear facing mics in OMT4 or OMT6- we used the card or hypercard AKG ckxxx a few times for that. We typically ran one card facing rear and another facing fwd at 0'. In fact, I am almost sure that we never tried a rear facing XY. However, the rear facing mic outcome can be offputting at first. As GB says,:"play around with adding just a touch of it, not much. Rear-facing channels tend to be best when their contribution is at the edge of perception and only noticed in their absence once muted."
The oddest thing is, during mixdown, once you found the correct, almost perceived level, when you mute it something positive GOES AWAY. Although, if asked to point the difference out, you may not be able to. Often, when going back and forth between all channels and muting the rear, I notice the barely perceptible, BUT THERE "ambiance" is all I can call it, and then say "Damn that gutbucket". For being correct with this theory!!!    lol   apologies to gutbucket.    8) >:D

edit to add a picture for OP [click to make it larger]
1 = AKG ck22 Omni pair
2= AKG ck460 single w ck8 shotgun as center FWD (0 degrees)
3= AKG ck61single  cardioid active
4 & 5 were not part of our channels.   
From Phish AUG 5 2017 Night 12 Bakers Dozen
« Last Edit: November 04, 2022, 07:36:05 PM by rocksuitcase »
music IS love

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Offline ejl6495

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Re: Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2022, 02:21:45 PM »
Quote
I see the 2nd option from the top on P. 5 is labeled as "not generally recommended" so i'll leave that as an option to mess around with at a less important show one day.

Things change!  A modified variation on that arrangement (with the near-spaced directional pair angled forward at around +/-45 deg instead of facing directly toward the sides at +/-90 deg) is now the 6 channel arrangement I generally recommend to other tapers.  See the new PDFs. 

The only problem with doing that is you should ideally use more spacing than you have available between the center pair and those mics, and between those mics and the wide-position mics.  Because that spacing is limited, the arrangement with four forward facing mics is probably going to work better, because you can then get the near-spaced pair wide enough so that it should work better in combination with the center X/Y pair.

I believe that I could run a set up that is pretty much the culmination of these two suggestions above and below:

Channel 1 & 2: V1 Hypercardiods XY center position
Channel 2 & 3: AT3031 Cardioids w/ 45 deg angle outwardly PAS @ roughly 30.5" apart
Channel 5 & 6: OMN1 omnis 31" apart facing either rearward or to the side

Other reasonable option for running all 6 channels is to use both omni and directional mic pairs in the 31" wide position.  In that case instead of getting the omnis far enough away from the directional pair, they should instead be arranged to be as coincident on each side with each other as possible.  The capsules should be as close together as possible, but it can help to angle the omnis in a different direction as far as possible (preferably pointed out to the sides or rearward, with the directional mics PAS or +/-45 deg).  That will help reduce the potential for high frequency cancellation between pairs.  In this case, the omnis will be used mostly for bass response anyway, secondly for additional room response.

Practically, that puts more weight out wide, and more wires running out there, but this might make for a better use of all available channels than a rear facing microphone in a chatty indoor space.  Generally I get better results when the omnis can be spaced much wider than the directional channels, but this is yet another option available for you.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2022, 04:05:57 PM »
^ Sure, do that!

Worse case, the omnis just go unused in the mix.

If they help with solid bottom end but interfere with what the 3031 cards are doing higher up, Try EQing the omnis in various ways.  Simplest would be to low-pass them so that they naturally hand-off to the cardioids as the frequency goes up.  But try other things too.  A less drastic low-slope roll off might work better, or some other curve that simply gets the omnis sounding as good as they can on their own, sort of as room mics without the need to provide direct clarity from the stage and PA that the other mics will be providing.


A fundamental thing being manipulated here is arranging things so as to promote beneficial interactions and discourage bad ones between multiple microphone channels, especially those that will end up being mixed together.  Getting sufficient spacing and/or angle between the microphones is the easiest way to achieve that, as it seeks to make the differences significant enough that problematic interactions are minimized.  Alternately, placing them as close together as possible is the flip side of that coin, in seeking to minimize any local acoustic difference at both microphones.  That's trickier because the two microphones can never be placed in exactly the same point in space, and even if they could be, they may have somewhat different phase responses. At low frequencies there is more leeway because wavelengths are long, plus the in this case the frequency response is different between the two.  Pointing the omnis away from the cardioids can help at high frequencies where the omnis become somewhat directional. EQing them can help by reducing the contribution from one verses the other in a frequency region that may be having some sort of problematic interaction.

Regardless of the technical justifications (most of which is being employed here to stack the deck in our favor with regards to interactions within the microphone array), once you get home and start playing with it, the most important thing is to go with whatever sounds right.  When mixing this stuff I find the best approach most often is to get each pair sounding good in isolation on its own, then work on getting the center + side pairs well balanced and working together.  Then bring in whatever else, in this case the omnis (conversely, outdoors the omnis are my starting point).  Once you get it all working well together, you can always save that and go back and play around with re-balancing and tweaking things further if so inclined, not only in terms of level balances between pairs, but also in playing one pair off the other in terms of EQ.  With only four channels there is already a lot to play around with afterward, with six or more the rabbit hole goes deep quickly.  Keep your head Alice.


lol   apologies to gutbucket.    8) >:D

Your comment me smile for reasons beyond this thread, my friend. Kudos to all who really listen fully with mind body and spirit, with the necessary freedom and imagination to allow the music and contribution of everyone who participated in it become realized to such a full extent in a new moment.  Reverence for Reverie!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline fireonshakedwnstreet

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Re: Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2022, 04:08:59 PM »
Wonderful discussion, as always. I think the wide card included in that V1 package could come in really handy for these type of situations, so that other set of amplifiers  could really come in handy. Best thing about OMT is you can use or not use or mix in at different levels whatever you want.

Just another note on the omnis, I believe the OM1s are flat out to 20khz, so you might want to give them a little boost beginning from 3.5 khz or so in your mixdown if they sound too distant.
Mics: AT 3031; AT 853Rx (c, o); CA-14(c); Naiant X-R (h); Studio Projects C4 (c, o, h); Nak 300/Tascam PE-125/JVC M510 (cp-1, cp-2, cp-3, JVC M510 superdirectional caps)
Recorders: Tascam DR-680 MkII; Tascam DR-70D; Tascam DR-5; Tascam DR-2D
Pres: Edirol UA-5 (Oade PMod & WMod); Marantz PMD661 (OCM); Naiant MidBox

Offline ejl6495

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Re: Recommendations for 6 Channel Setup with current gear
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2022, 04:34:46 PM »
You've given me quite a bit to digest in this thread lol! Thank you again for your time, knowledge, and experience. I've yet to make my final decision, but I'm very excited to to try out something new. You'll be hearing more from me in the coming days >:D

Warren Haynes, Anders Osborne, & guests doing The Last Waltz on Tuesday // Billy Strings on Friday. Hoping the new V1's come in time for Tuesday

With only four channels there is already a lot to play around with afterward, with six or more the rabbit hole goes deep quickly.  Keep your head Alice.

Alice & I have alot in common, I look forward to the sonic rabbit hole post show :spin:

 

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