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Author Topic: How Many Sources?  (Read 1727 times)

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Offline nulldogmas

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Re: How Many Sources?
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2022, 12:50:27 AM »

I'm recording something in a couple of hours and am bringing two sets of gear, but that's mostly because it's a venue that I've never been to, so I have no idea if cards or omnis will come out best.

And I ended up just running the omnis and leaving the cards in my bag because the minute I got there, I knew the omnis would sound so good that I wouldn't even want to bother with the cards. Which they did.

Offline Chanher

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Re: How Many Sources?
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2022, 01:21:55 AM »
Whatever I feel like in the moment. I just bought Dan's warm mod 661 and I'm looking forward to an all-in-one stereo rig where I can press a few buttons, enjoy the show, then just copy the damn file to my archives and be done with it. I'm still working on a super low-pro, adjustable stereo mount for my at853's where the mics are (semi) permanently mounted on it and I can just quick-release the mount onto my mic stand, raise it, and press record.

I still have bands and venues where I look forward to the extra work of 3 mic mix + mono sbd (my current experiment). I've been putting in the work of screening smaller bands coming through town and hand-picking the ones I think I'd enjoy. When you're into the band, especially someone fresh and new, it gives a whole new meaning to the work and suddenly it's not work.

A (generous) friend is letting me borrow his Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 3rd gen usb interface. 10 inputs. I'm gonna try some laptop multi-tracking; spot-micing each instrument and then to defy all (taper) convention, point some mics away from the band and towards the audience!
« Last Edit: November 17, 2022, 01:28:26 AM by Chanher »
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Offline robeti

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Re: How Many Sources?
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2022, 06:01:50 AM »
One. Plus video.
I only stealth.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: How Many Sources?
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2022, 08:58:51 AM »
One.  Audio only.

For me that's 4 or 8 channels configured as a single source.  Two sources if SBD is recorded - nice to have, but I don't count on that.  Making the rig fast and easy to deploy and run has been the key for me.  That doesn't simplify the after-work, but I'm okay with that as its worth it to me.  Once source of 4 channels is likely to be the sweet spot for most tapers running more than 2 channels.

The difference between the number of sources and number of channels in any single source is an important distinction I think.  A single source being purposefully designed in such a way that all channels have a specific relationship so as to work together optimally as a unit.

I've run three separate AUD sources (+ SBD) at times in the past for comparison purposes.
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Offline vanark

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Re: How Many Sources?
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2022, 10:20:48 AM »
The difference between the number of sources and number of channels in any single source is an important distinction I think.

I think we all understood the OP's question to mean how many different sets of mics or sbd channels someone was running. No need to turn this into another thread about running OMT7 or OMT8 or OMT72.

I run as many channels as I need to get a good recording. I simply don't have the time or energy to do more just because I can. I would need an associate taper to do all my post work if I went that route. And I only do 1 show every month or so, sometimes more (like this month), but really about 10-15 per year and I can't handle more than that.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: How Many Sources?
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2022, 11:07:21 AM »
In his original post, OP moondust.and.solitude specifically mentioned 3 separate sources   That's 6 channels in that particular case.  So which is it?

My point is that this is an important distinction, which is not often clearly differentiated in our discussions here at TS, but should be.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2022, 12:21:53 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: How Many Sources?
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2022, 11:31:09 AM »
^ Or misunderstood, rather.  In his original post, OP moondust.and.solitude specifically mentioned 3 separate sources   That's 6 channels in that particular case.  So which is it?

I took "sources" to mean "mic pairs." Or, more simply, how many plugs I need to find input jacks for.

Offline ol' dirty taper

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Re: How Many Sources?
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2022, 11:58:48 AM »
For the average open show, I try and run 4 channels and board when available, but when in a pinch, 2 well placed mics can often times be just as good. Far as the recorder, just depends how many channels I am running. I did 10 channels for a few shows earlier this year and it was a lot of gear to haul around, 8 mics and board, but it was fun to have the 10T running all of that. Primarily was a test to see which pair of mics I wanted to buy, the schoeps mk21s or gefell m300s, against my usual 2 pair.
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Offline jcable77

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Re: How Many Sources?
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2022, 12:51:11 PM »
depends on how many the band lets me put on stage.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2022, 12:52:55 PM by jcable77 »

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: How Many Sources?
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2022, 12:51:36 PM »
^ Or misunderstood, rather.  In his original post, OP moondust.and.solitude specifically mentioned 3 separate sources   That's 6 channels in that particular case.  So which is it?

I took "sources" to mean "mic pairs." Or, more simply, how many plugs I need to find input jacks for.

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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: How Many Sources?
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2022, 01:30:32 PM »
The difference between the number of sources and number of channels in any single source is an important distinction I think.
No need to turn this into another thread about running OMT7 or OMT8 or OMT72.
:-\ :'( :o ^-^ >:( ;D >:D
jeez. Curatorial envy?  How about OMT196?        >:D
I think there is certainly a difference between number of SOURCES, AUD, SBD, FM, stream
vs the number of CHANNELS being recorded onto.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: How Many Sources?
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2022, 04:16:21 PM »
For the record, a single source consisting of two microphone channels is capable of producing sublime stereo recordings and is the right choice for most tapers.  Call it two sources if also recording SBD, but lets ignore that for now.

More than two sources is a great way to compare things, and can hedge the bet / improve the odds by providing a choice between those sources.

What the incorporation of more channels in a single source can do is: Hedge the bet / improve the odds; Allow for a greater specialization of what the pairs or individual channels are providing, such that their sum is greater than any of the individual parts; Provide what is needed for playback using more than two channels.  Most tapers have no interest in the last one, but the other two may be of interest.

I've posted many times that for most tapers that want to run a single-source consisting of an array of more than two microphones, I think the sweet spot is probably four mic channels total.  What makes that a single source instead of two sources is when those four channels are specifically arranged to work together collectively in combination.  Two stereo pairs on the same stand or mic-bar, each designed to work well on its own, constitutes two sources, the combination of which may or may not work better than either on its own. 
^
This is the essence of the distinction I'm trying to make.

Additional microphone channels beyond four in a single source can certainly be beneficial, else I wouldn't bother doing it or posting about it at TS, yet will often be a case of diminishing returns.  Properly arranging things so all channels work together optimally gets increasingly difficult.  There is more stuff to haul and setup.  There is more one needs to do afterward.  Managing it all gets more complicated.  All of that limits the suitability of using 6 or more microphones in a single source to a much smaller subset of tapers, which is all good and as it should be.

Each taper gravitates to whatever methods work best for them.  We're a small community, fertile with individualism and creative solutions, and are fortunate to have this place to share and discuss these kinds of things. Making these kinds of distinctions is important to me for thinking about arcane concepts involved in taping and discussing them with sufficient clarity.  To each his own.  Make great tapes in your own way.  Thanks to everyone here for sharing their thoughts, ideas, and recordings.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2022, 04:19:01 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline vanark

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Re: How Many Sources?
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2022, 05:47:21 PM »
In his original post, OP moondust.and.solitude specifically mentioned 3 separate sources   That's 6 channels in that particular case.  So which is it?

My point is that this is an important distinction, which is not often clearly differentiated in our discussions here at TS, but should be.

I see you edited your post. It was not misunderstood. You can make the distinction all you want, we know what he meant. Sources, mic pairs - in this case the same thing.

There is useful information in (most of) your posts and you are clearly a knowledgeable and passionate person, you care about the community. Just no need to make these kind of distinctions that feel pedantic when you are correcting someone. If it is only me, so be it. I'll shut up now. I've said my piece.
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at LMA(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

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Offline capnhook

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Re: How Many Sources?
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2022, 05:48:09 PM »
4 sources, 8 channels into two clock-linked R-44s is fun.  I use different combinations of this gear with SBD at different times, linked and un-linked, but not more than four sources.

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Offline vanark

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Re: How Many Sources?
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2022, 05:51:13 PM »
I think there is certainly a difference between number of SOURCES, AUD, SBD, FM, stream
vs the number of CHANNELS being recorded onto.

Not to most of us. I understand the point, but it isn't applicable to 95% (maybe more) of the taping we do.
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at LMA(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

Link to LMA Recordings

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Mics: Microtech Gefell M21 (with Nbob actives) | Church Audio CA-11 (cards) (with CA UBB)
Pres: babynbox
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D | Tascam DR-40 | Sony PCM-A10 | Edirol R-4

 

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