Topic: Help needed in choosing best preamp or battery + mics for NJB3 ~$500

[Will_S]

So...if you get the mod and run a 2wire bb..there will be no loss of gain? Or will there be? if youre using a 3wire theres really no reason for the mod..right? Like with the phantom/3wire setup? (my setup) as i undestood it the mod and 2wire was an alternatiue to a 3wire setup?   

2 wire mod with no 4.7k mod would be like the base model CMC-4 that Sound Professionals offers.  It's more sensitive than any of the other options we're discussing, but it also has a tendency to distort with loud material.

So if you do 4.7k mod > 2 wire battery box vs. plain 2 wire like Sound Professionals offers, yes you lose some gain.  But 4.7k mod vs 3 wire battery box, you do not.  Or 4.7k mod vs adapters, you do not.  (Now, some people run a Denecke PS-2 with the stock XLR outputs through line transformers to get RCA's to adapt to miniplug inputs, and the line transformers can add some gain.  But if you compare 4.7K mod > 2 wire BB > recorder vs. phantom adapters > PS2 > XLR to mini cable with no transformers, the gain is pretty the same.

No reason for the 4.7k mod if you are already running 3 wire power, unless you want to use a preamp or run directly into a recorder with a 1/8" input (eg an R09, minidisc might not provide quite enough voltage on the plug in power).

[nameloc01]

Right..thats what i was getting at...the gain loss with a mod>2wire. The mics wouldnt need the mod with a 3 wire..then its factory phantom 3 wire ..or 3 wire diy bb.

[Will_S]

Thanks for the reply. The set up I liked the sound of was:
DSM-6S > PA-6LC3 > M1 > 7pin>optical > NJB3

I couldn't fathom though exactly what an M1 and the 7pin>optical was though, but all that together may be out of the price range

That means whoever recorded that show was patched out of an M1, a DAt recorder (now discontinued).  In other words, there were two recorders daisy chained out of the same set of mics.  The 7pin > optical is the proprietary cable you needed to get a digital output from a Sony portable DAT.

. An alternative would be to buy an edirol-r09 and use the inbuilt recorder but I'm assuming that would sound less good?

If by "inbuilt recorder" you mean the built in microphones of the R09, yes they would definitely sound inferior to a decent set of external mics.  But if you like the open, natural sound of omni mics like the DSM-6S (and like others have said, you want to listen to more sources and choose which mics sound best to you) you should probably check out the website of the company that makes them, www.sonicstudios.com.  The "Sennheiser powered omnis" from Microphone Madness might be worth considering as a cheaper omni alternative.

Anyway, if you are really only going to record the smashing pumpkins, something like AT853s with low sensitivity mod > 2 wire battery box should work fine, as should AT853s > phantom adapters > PS2 (with a miniplug output mod, or an adapter cable to go from the XLR female outputs of a stock PS2 to the miniplug input of the JB3).  But I'd also look into the Church Audio cardioids + preamp package in the Retail Space.  These mics will not distort at high SPLs, the preamp adds a nice flavor to the sound even when the music is loud enough that you don't need to max it out on gain, and you'll have more flexibility for quieter material if you ever want to record it.  You can also pick up some omni capsules for either the AT853s or the Church mics (although the Church omnis are significantly cheaper), and in the right conditions omnis perform substantially better for the dollar than cards (again, the recording you singled out above was made with omnis).  But they are also the most sensitive to chatter from all directions, and can easily sound boomy if you are recording from the wrong spot (or if the source material is just boomy to begin with).

[nameloc01]

Unless you already had the 2wire bb.. I would think the 3w bb would be the way to go (not talking about the ps2) right?  I mean ..why mod the mics if you have to buy a bb anyway? Just get a 3w setup in one form or another.

[Will_S]

Unless you already had the 2wire bb.. I would think the 3w bb would be the way to go (not talking about the ps2) right?  I mean ..why mod the mics if you have to buy a bb anyway? Just get a 3w setup in one form or another.

Well, the original poster seems to be in a hurry to get the full setup.  The low sensitivity mod / 4.7k mod is a standard option from SP, no custom order needed, and doesn't take long to perform.  A 2 wire battery box (or 1/8" input preamp) is an off-the-shelf item as well.  Quick and easy.  A 3 wire BB or preamp would need to be a custom order and might take longer.

And if you have a recorder with sufficient plug in power voltage and a decent built in preamp (R09, Marantz PMD620, even an iRiver in my experience) you can run the 4.7k modded mics directly into the recorder in a pinch.

[nameloc01]

A ps2 is an off the shelf item too. just seems really weird to not just get a 3w setup to begin with. Thats the way the mics were designed. Each to his own. though.

[Will_S]

A ps2 is an off the shelf item too. just seems really weird to not just get a 3w setup to begin with. Thats the way the mics were designed. Each to his own. though.

It's not stock if it's got a miniplug out though.   

So the off the shelf options from SP are:

low senstivity mod ($25) plus SP-SPSB-1 2 wire battery box ($59) = $84 and minimal bulk

phantom adapters ($69 if you go with the cheaper NADY option) plus PS-2 with miniplug out (199) = $268 and substantially more bulk

I know which one I'd choose, but as you say, to each his own.

[nameloc01]

You'd still have the modded ps2 in a few days....i did. Maybe they do now...but does sp stock a 3w bb? I would be suprised if they didnt. Although maybe they just make them as needed.                            ps. A true jedi worries not about bulk.                                     

[nameloc01]

Also..after having my "go 'rounds" with sp's little plastic bbs' i can tell you i will never use one again.ever..nor any other currently available plastic one. They (sps) have caused the loss of some good recordings for me. The denecke...flawless.  Out.

[sunjan]

A ps2 is an off the shelf item too. just seems really weird to not just get a 3w setup to begin with. Thats the way the mics were designed. Each to his own. though.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. The advantages of 3-wire has been up so many times here. I collected the URLs to the FAQ and the previous discussions we had:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,89172.msg1190823.html#msg1190823
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,89288.0.html

If you're concered about bulk, you'll be surprised to find out that the Church 3-wire pre is just as small as the SP 2-wire bbox!
SP-SPSB-1: 2 x 3.9 x 1 inch
Church ST-9100: 2.5 x 3.5 x 1 inch
(or get the CA-UGLY, way smaller than anything SP offers...)

OK, the Church gear is usually made to order, but if you talk to Chris he could probably put you on fast-track for a premium. Or pick up a 9100 in the YS.

/Jan

[nameloc01]

If i didnt have the ps2 and was going to get a 3w...i'd get one of chris' not a sp model. I have several sps...one shit out..the other one i dont trust.