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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: wsphansam on February 23, 2004, 12:22:29 AM
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Hey everyone, I've been lurking around here for the past few weeks, thought it would be time to finally post something.
Well I've got a jb3 and am planning on taping in mainly smaller theaters and bars and need a recomendation on mics. I am on a budget of 500 or lower. I also would like to have a little more info on different caps I should run in the types of settings I mentioned above.
thanks,
sam
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you may want to consider allocating that $500 budget torwards mics AND a preamp. it is generally considered wiser to spend more/devote more resources torwards mics than other pieces of equipment.
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>>I am on a budget of 500 or lower.
Audio Technica AT853Rx > Beyerdynamics MV-100 > jb3
AT mics will set you back around $300 for 2 and you could pickup a used Beyer for around $250 ish.
great for stealthing as well.
marc
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http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=23;action=display;threadid=14280
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Sound Pros has some decent prices on ADKs that would probably do well for you:
A-51 LDs with shockmounts $139 each:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=search&item=ADK-MODELA-51DLX&type=store
SC-Ts w/ card and omni caps $199 each:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=search&item=ADK-SC-T&type=store
SC-1 $89 each:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=search&item=ADK-SC-1&type=store
Or check the boards for good used deals. I still haven't got one piece of new gear except my bag, and I probably could have got that here if I'd been patient.
Welcome & +t.
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You could also try to go for a pair of mics around $200 and get a new digi-mod UA-5 from Oade (on sale right now for $295) for a digital feed since you're using the JB3.
http://www.oade.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=OADE&Product_Code=EDIUA5DM&Category_Code=DDR
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You could also try to go for a pair of mics around $200 and get a new digi-mod UA-5 from Oade (on sale right now for $295) for a digital feed since you're using the JB3.
That's what I was thinking of doing, but I would probably just buy one of ebay and do the mod myself. I am interested in learning more about the Beyer, I really like the idea of using one piece of equipt. for both stealthing and open taping.
I also have been looking into the Studio Projects C4, I've found a pair with omni/cardioids caps, windscreens, mounts, and case for 369. Can someone tell me a little about these? I know they're somewhat similar to the oktava mk012's.
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I'll throw out the obligatory AKG c1000s/Denecke AD20 suggestion. You can pretty much always find the mics for around the $250 mark used, and the AD20 for about the same. The AD20 is also a pre/AD converter combo, and the c1000s come with both card and hyper caps...so more bang for your buck so to speak.
Granted, if you're looking to stealth, the c1000s will be of zero interest to you, but for open taping this combo is a great budget rig. Not to mention the AD20 has an optical out, which will go great with the JB3.
I ran this rig when I first started taping...and probably still would if I hadn't been bitten by the upgrade bug after a year or so. Here's a sample of what it can produce:
http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=2451
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I looked heavily at the c1000's but figured that since I can go 100-150 bucks more why not look around more for something a little "better".
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I looked heavily at the c1000's but figured that since I can go 100-150 bucks more why not look around more for something a little "better".
I actually had a pair of C100S, but went to AT831s before I taped a single show because I just didn't like the looks or feel of them.
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I actually had a pair of C100S, but went to AT831s before I taped a single show because I just didn't like the looks or feel of them.
It's funny you mention the "look and feel", cause that's the one thing about them I didn't like.
They're 2 or 3 times bigger (both in length and width) as every condenser mic regularly used for taping, but obviously not as big as large diaphragm mics. They stand out in the section for sure...
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You can also try the every faithful Nak CM300's. Tour tested over the years! Hunt on Ebay for the 300's....I see them there every so often. I think there is a tri-set for sale but they only have the CP-2 omni caps.
These are great starter mics and have a nice warm lowend, forgiving in terms of placement and have interchangable capsules. The 9V batteries can be purchased at any Rat-Shack location or through any battery distributor.
Just another option for starter mics! Shit, I still have a pair of the shotguns for larger arena taping.
Spend as MUCH as you can on your mics. You can always upgrade your pre, deck or A/D later on. Have fun and take your time!
LoS
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AKG c1000s are bigger than other condenser microphones but they also take a 9v battery inside them so you don't need phantom power for them.
I used to run AKGc1000s I bought my used for $250 and sold them 9 months later for $200, I probably could hve gotten a little more but I wanted to sell them quick and it worked out less than $1 a show to use them
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mXL1006BPs
Samples here: http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=14051
great mics, LD condensers, 9v or 48v powered, no preamp needed
peace, chris
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I think I am leaning towards something like: AT stealth mics>Denecke AD-20>jb3. This way I can do the open/stealth thing. I figure I'll have some shockmounts made up for open taping.
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I'd run the AD-20, but I'd really like to have a UA-5, it's just not really stealthable from what I've gathered.
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http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=23;action=display;threadid=14280
I second this. For less than $150 shipped you get matched pair, t-bar, shock mounts and case. Remeber the $500 you also need to buy a stand, cables, a bag and whatever else you may need that I'm forgetting.
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ok, lets look at this from a broad viewpoint.
You already have a jb3. You still need mics, power, pre, and an adc for under $500 and stealthable.
I got an answer for you.
MICS
SP-CMC-2 (at831) = $120
POWER
SP-SPSB-1 w/ bass roll-off = $80
PRE/ADC
denecke AD-20 (inbox) = $200 used
You can use the extra $100 for extras. You might need attenuators for the AD-20. Because the AD-20 sends a hot signal, you might need attenuators to take the signal down a bit so your recorder doesn't distort, but this depends on what you are recording.
Also, for open taping, people have mentioned stands, tbars and the like.
You'd need a cable to run from the battery box to the AD-20, and a cable to run AD-20 to jb3.
That is really the only solution I can think of given your parameters.
good luck!
~schwill
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I may drop the stealth thing and just concentrate on open for starting out. I've been going back and forth all week trying to figure out what to do, stealth or open starting out.
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http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=23;action=display;threadid=14280
I second this. For less than $150 shipped you get matched pair, t-bar, shock mounts and case. Remeber the $500 you also need to buy a stand, cables, a bag and whatever else you may need that I'm forgetting.
I 3rd it
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Where can you get these mics for that price? Lowest I've seen is ~$260. Problem is, I'll need to get them shipped over to the UK as well.
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I 4th the superlux. In fact, i like the way they sound over the octava mc012's.
i got my superlux's off of ebay for $160 and they came with shock mounts, t bar, windscreens, extra rubber bands for the shock mounts, the 1/4 > 5/8 adapter for stands (i think thats the size), the cardioid caps, the hyper cardioid caps, and the omni caps.
i run superlux > DIY digimod UA-5 > njb3.
you can hear samples of them here (http://www.archive.org/audio/etreelisting-browse.php?collection=etree&cat=The%20Fuzz) There's some in the 2003 section at the bottom, and in the 2004 section as well.
ed
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Wow that's a great deal on the superlux's. I just purchased an AD-20 and will use it for now until I can save up for the UA-5. I'll be checking out the superlux mics for sure and probably buy the SP-CMC-2 mics for sure. I also will have to gather more knowledge on attenuators. What types of situations would I need them for?
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I use:
Studio Projects C4 mics ---> PS2 ---> AD20 ---> JB3
and it sounds great.
You can get the C4's now for $319 from here... http://www.micguys.com/studio_project_mics/spmics_c4.htm
They come with everything you'll need: shock mounts, omin & cardiod caps, windscreens, hard case, and they are a matched pair.
I have heard that the Behringer B5's are a clone of the C4's and sound just as good. Though I truely have no idea if this is true. You'll need to do a little research to find out. You can get the B5's for $159 at http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=21014&Category=Microphones and they come with all the afformentioned gear, plus 2 XLR cables. Sounds like a very good deal to me.
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You'll possibly need attenuation when recording very loud sources, as the AD20 sends a pretty hot signal. Also good to have a couple of attenuators for a board patch...don't know much about the JB3, but I know many board's outputs will overload a D8 in a heartbeat. They help "turn down" the signal.
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what is the difference between an Attenuator and the built-in -10dB switch on my C4?
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Thanks for the link to the Behringers, Sharky. Looks like they might be a good place to start on this hobby. I'm right in thinking I would then need a phantom power supply for these mics? Sorry if this has been gone over before, I have read the newbie guide in the archive forum but there's only so many acronyms I can take in before my brain starts turning to mush!
Did a quick bit of searching on the webbernet and unless I'm mistaken, this is the type of thing I would need?
Link (http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/d2/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=978&category_id=edce423dd205826b9e0930806555e495)
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If you're thinking about stealth with the possibility of open, I've got AT831, batt box, flexible t-bar, etc. for sale. Looking at my next set of mics right now, so I'll give you a good deal.
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=13833
LMK,
Ryan
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Ross,
I have the DENECKE PS2 phantom power. I got it with the AD20 on Ebay as a package deal. Im sure you can find one used on ebay for cheap. As for the one you linked, it should work fine. Give Sound Professionals a call if your not sure what to buy. Those guys are a very helpful bunch. Great customer service. 1-800-213-3021 They are very knowlegable of the JB3, so they should be able to answere/recommend a phontom power in your price range.
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=search&item=DEN-PS2&type=store
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Ross,
If those B5's are anythink like my C4's you will be very happy. I just recorded my first show this weekend and was very satisfied with the results. I cant imagine a recoding being much better. Your recording is only going to be as godd as the soundman mixes the show, so I really dont see any reason to break the bank on mics, especially when you are just starting out like us.
Please keep us informed on how the B5's work out if you end up going with them.
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I'm looking at open taping for the moment, so that I can play about and learn the ropes in the open before I have to do it blind!
I'm sure there are some good things available on ebay but it's finding the good stuff on ebay.co.uk that's the problem. I've managed to find the B5s on a couple of UK sites but they're asking ~$140 per mic! Thanks to the strong pound/weak dollar at the mo, even if I get import taxed it'll still work out cheaper to get stuff shipped over.
Currently, I'm looking at getting a reasonable cheap setup, keeping it fun before I start buying the expensive shit. Hence I'll be leaving out the pre-amp (that's different to the phantom power, right?) and using the controls on my JB3.
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I'll throw my experience as a newbie, RossHenry. I bought a used UA5 off of ebay, but it took me almost 2 months until I found one at a good low price. I have been patching for a short while now. But, I like the idea of the Beringer B5 set-up. I think it may be a great as a beginner set up. Check ebay for stands. They is a group from Texas (I think) that has 10' stands and 13' stands, which run $48 for 13'. I see myself going to 8th Street music for the B5 set up in Philly after vacation in a few weeks 8)
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stands for cheap on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3800382178&category=30080)
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I've got a 6' stand at the moment as I've mostly been trying to do a mate's band who play in pubs. Next planned gig is SCI but I guess I'll just have to angle the mics upwards a bit.
I noticed that SpeshulEd posted a link to the Superlux mics at $140. Is it worth the extra $20 for the Behringers? Would I be able to hear a difference?
At the moment, I'm looking at (Behringer | Superlux) > MTR PPS-2 > JB3.
Presumably, I'll also need an XLR > mini jack cable for going into the JB3?
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you will need to choose a preamp that has an optical out.
Run an optical cable from the preamp to the jb3. (the jb3 only has an optical input)
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you will need to choose a preamp that has an optical out.
Run an optical cable from the preamp to the jb3. (the jb3 only has an optical input)
Not true in the first case, and not possible in the second.
Preamps are analog devices, they don't have digital outputs. Analog to digital converters (ADCs) provide the digital signal to our recorders. If you're using an outboard ADC with your NJB3, you'll need either:
[1] an ADC which outputs an optical signal
[2] a digital format converter to convert your ADCs coax S/PDIF or AES/EBU signal into an optical signal.
Two good digital format converter options are the Hosa ODL-276 (coax <-> optical converter) and ODL-312 (AES/EBU <-> optical converter)
Alternatively, you can simply use the ADC in your NJB3. In which case, you would need adapters to go from the analog output of your preamp (likely XLR) to the 3.5mm stereo analog input of the NJB3.
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At the moment I'm just going to be using the onboard amp and ADC as I'm running close to the "this hobby's getting too expensive" line as it is!
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At the moment I'm just going to be using the onboard amp and ADC as I'm running close to the "this hobby's getting too expensive" line as it is!
You may find the NJB3's mic-in a bit too noisy for your tastes. Simple solution to consider: add a couple line transformers (~$40/pr) between your phantom power supply and your NJB3 to boost the signal and run line-in on the NJB3.
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That sounds like a solution. Here's a newbie question though, if I'm mixing the output from the PS from twin XLR to stereo mini jack, would I only need one transformers or should I boost the signal to line level and then mix to stereo jack?
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That sounds like a solution. Here's a newbie question though, if I'm mixing the output from the PS from twin XLR to stereo mini jack, would I only need one transformers or should I boost the signal to line level and then mix to stereo jack?
Use two - one for each channel. Your chain will look something like this:
XLR outs of phantom power source >
2 x ( XLR line transformers in / 1/4" mono out ) >
2 x 1/4" mono / 3.5mm stereo mini adapter
I used and liked the Hosa MIT-176 (http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/mit_transformers.html) line transformers - inexpensive, sound good, and I found the pigtail style flexible.
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thanks for the clarification Brian. Im getting to know my equipment better everytime I have to explain it to someone.
note: my AD20 unit is a preamp and AD converter in one package; with an optical line out.
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Thanks for the idea, Brian. Now I just need to find somewhere that sells them online! Only find one place so far and they wanted $20 for shipping! :-(
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I'm also a newbie looking at low-end microphone choices. I came accross the Superlux SMK-H8K matched pair for $139 at Earthshaking Music in Atlanta (http://www.earthshakingmusic.com/superlux.lasso). Does anyone have any experience with these guys?
Superlux also has another line--CM-H8--that they also sell in matched pairs. These mics look a little better than the SMK model, but still very reasonably priced. The CM-H8K-IHO is $129 (each) and comes with three capsules. Is anybody using these?
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i think i mighta already said this...but...
here (http://www.archive.org/audio/etreelisting-browse.php?collection=etree&cat=The%20Fuzz) are some examples of the superlux's in bar/club type settings. check down at the bottom of the 2003 section and the 2004 section. i'm warning you tho, i'm still kinda learning as i go, and you can tell by the recordings. i think the mics do a fine job for the price.
i got mine off ebay for around $150/160 bux, i can't remember now, but they came with all 3 caps plus the case, tbar and all the extras.
good luck.
ed
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Thanks Ed, think I'm going with the Behringers though. Don't know why, just one of those gut reactions when faced with two choices. Hope it pays out!
Looks like I'll be running Behringers > MTR PPS-2 > Audio Technica CP8201s > JB3.
I couldn't find the Hosa line transformers at 8th Street.com and I'd rather order everything from the one place to save on shipping. Now to get it shipped to a pal in the US, he can unwrap it, mark it as s/h on the customs form and pass it on! ;)
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Okay, possibly very stupid question, but the line transformers definitely won't be "too high" for the JB3 input? I'm not about to end up with a loud pop and a useless piece of metal and plastic?