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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: stvgray on January 31, 2004, 03:35:05 PM
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I'm relatively new at this, and I'm using Monster Standard 100s that I bought for PA use, not live recording.
I have an economy rig consisting of Oktava MK012s, Edirol UA-5 w/home digimod, and Tascam DAP-1.
How much difference would it make to upgrade the cables? Would sinking $100-$200 in better cables make a lot of difference? Or would I be better off saving my money to upgrade the mics or the pre/AD?
If you think the cable upgrade would be a good idea, what cables would you recommend, and how much do they cost?
Thanks!
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upgrade the mics first....pre/AD second and cables last. In my opinion you can run a set of canare starquad mic cables which are economical and sound damn good for the meantime, and quite honestly until you get the rest of the rig where you want it to be, upgrading cables may not hae an impact.
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It takes a refined ear to hear cables.
Even more during a live recording.
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cables should be the last place you spend your money unless you have total POS Hosa cables- in that case just get a decent set (the BLUE Kiwi's and starquad and such) but dont throw a ton of money into your cables so soon- get new mics first, then new pre/ad combos.
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dont throw a ton of money into your cables so soon- get new mics first, then new pre/ad combos.
Agreed. Cables were the last thing I upgraded in my rig. I just passed the 1k mark, though. 8)
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Thanks -- that makes sense. Mics, then pre, then cables.
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I'm using a $2 cable armen bought from ebay, and I doubt I could hear the difference in a $100 cable
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it all depends on the gear, the siutation, etc.
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is that you jonny? the picture URL is a bit skeptical
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check out the canare starquad cable from markertek along with the neutrik ends. then bounce over to the archival section and learn how to make your own cables. For less than $50 i got 15ft of cable and right angle xlr connectors...a little bit of solder and about a half hour and you've got yourself a nice pair of cables.
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cables matter in the big picture, but you've got to have a rig and playback system to back it up. a lot of people pay no credence to cables, but they are part of the system that nedds to be addressed, eventually. spend your money on quality components first.
jr
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cables matter in the big picture, but you've got to have a rig and playback system to back it up. a lot of people pay no credence to cables, but they are part of the system that nedds to be addressed, eventually. spend your money on quality components first.
jr
so john, should i even bother w/ canare/starquad cables by myself.........
i have x-streamz like you do, would i hear a difference, cause i LOVE my am's ;)
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I asked this question on a different forum a few months ago and got answers like, "Expensive cables help because they make your wallet lighter, thus making it easier to carry your stuff in."
So I'm sticking with my canare starquads...
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>> I'm using a $2 cable armen bought from ebay, and I doubt I could hear the difference in a $100 cable<<
what cable? you probably could
i started off with some no name mic cables. I eventually got a 15 foot pair of audiomagic excalibur IIs (for hundreds less than they retail for, thanks marc) and ran those for a few shows. I noticed a difference in low end detail and "oomph". sold them after a few shows because I bought the 4022s and no longer needed a set of 15 footers. excalibur IIs are a bit overkill, but i did notice a difference. i found a killer deal on a pair of sorcerer 1 meter xlrs and ran those for a while between the pre and a/d and again noticed a difference.
but my home playback system is where i noticed the biggest difference in cables. i got a 1 meter pair of excalibur IIs (i love the audio magic sound) for my dac > amp and again noticed the low end difference right away. bass was much tighter and seemed to hit harder. now that i've upgraded the home playback, i have the excalibur II rcas going from the DAC to the pre, and a pair of spellcasters going from the pre to the power amp. i have another set of excalibur II rcas I may put in between the dvd-a player and the preamp, but I'm not sure yet. I need to do some listening to determine what I like best, and also run the test to see if my dvd-a player is putting out a full 24/96 signal. of course, it has to actually arrive for me to test...hehe
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wow scott, i hope they gave you a t-shirt
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cables matter in the big picture, but you've got to have a rig and playback system to back it up. a lot of people pay no credence to cables, but they are part of the system that nedds to be addressed, eventually. spend your money on quality components first.
jr
so john, should i even bother w/ canare/starquad cables by myself.........
i have x-streamz like you do, would i hear a difference, cause i LOVE my am's ;)
put ra's on the xstreams. i used the canare's i got from daryan this weekend because i have put the ra's on mine yet. when i do, i'll use the starquads as extensions only, or get rid of them. then i'll need to get some more xstream for length.
jr
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Anyone able/willing to do a comp of Canare Starquad v. any of the Audio Magic (or other "high end" cables)? Curious to hear how the Canare's stack up...I'm running out of major gear purchases to make, so cables may be next. ;D
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if i get to mule next week, i could do 1st/2nd set changeout.
oh
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Anyone able/willing to do a comp of Canare Starquad v. any of the Audio Magic (or other "high end" cables)? Curious to hear how the Canare's stack up...I'm running out of major gear purchases to make, so cables may be next. ;D
ive got a solution to this- buy gear for me!
also, forget buying audio magics for the price, get another set of mics for yourself. at least mics retain their value (good luck getting close to what you paid for a pair of audio magics)
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ive got a solution to this- buy gear for me!
:lol: No chance.
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>>also, forget buying audio magics for the price, get another set of mics for yourself. at least mics retain their value (good luck getting close to what you paid for a pair of audio magics)<<
i say forget the retail price and get them off audiogon for a steal. that's what i've done. i've never even paid close to retail for mine. i think they destroy any other cables for the price though, especially when that price is 50% off :)
(and it's easier to get back what you paid when you paid half price)
note: i've never used the xstreams f or prestos, so i have no idea how those sound
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i say forget the retail price and get them off audiogon for a steal.
My thoughts, exactly.
BTW, the cables just got here, Scott. Thanks again!
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>> I'm using a $2 cable armen bought from ebay, and I doubt I could hear the difference in a $100 cable<<
what cable? you probably could
i started off with some no name mic cables. I eventually got a 15 foot pair of audiomagic excalibur IIs (for hundreds less than they retail for, thanks marc) and ran those for a few shows. I noticed a difference in low end detail and "oomph". sold them after a few shows because I bought the 4022s and no longer needed a set of 15 footers. excalibur IIs are a bit overkill, but i did notice a difference. i found a killer deal on a pair of sorcerer 1 meter xlrs and ran those for a while between the pre and a/d and again noticed a difference.
but my home playback system is where i noticed the biggest difference in cables. i got a 1 meter pair of excalibur IIs (i love the audio magic sound) for my dac > amp and again noticed the low end difference right away. bass was much tighter and seemed to hit harder. now that i've upgraded the home playback, i have the excalibur II rcas going from the DAC to the pre, and a pair of spellcasters going from the pre to the power amp. i have another set of excalibur II rcas I may put in between the dvd-a player and the preamp, but I'm not sure yet. I need to do some listening to determine what I like best, and also run the test to see if my dvd-a player is putting out a full 24/96 signal. of course, it has to actually arrive for me to test...hehe
sorry bout that scott, I was being a dickwad when I said that. The only cable I use while recording is the 1/8" trs going from mp-2 > M1. The mic cable and power modules for the mics are in-line. Maybe I can use a higher quality cable, but I'd probably just fuck it up while stealthing, and my playback system is total ass right now.
but thanx for taking the time to give that assessment
~needs new cans
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it's all good...
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cables matter in the big picture, but you've got to have a rig and playback system to back it up. a lot of people pay no credence to cables, but they are part of the system that nedds to be addressed, eventually. spend your money on quality components first.
jr
so john, should i even bother w/ canare/starquad cables by myself.........
i have x-streamz like you do, would i hear a difference, cause i LOVE my am's ;)
put ra's on the xstreams. i used the canare's i got from daryan this weekend because i have put the ra's on mine yet. when i do, i'll use the starquads as extensions only, or get rid of them. then i'll need to get some more xstream for length.
jr
I MIGHT DO THAT ONLY FOR THE MIC END, BUT I MIGHT SELL MY am'S AND GET A PAIR OF PRESTO'S OR EXCALIBURS SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE(DUE TO A SMALLlllllllllllllllllll cut in one of the mic cables,but if someone would be willing to do it for me, id be down ;)heath??? ;)
ummm, i am gonna make a pair of 15 ft and 25 fit mic cables for the hell of it since i have 40 ft of black and 40ft of green cable ;)
but yeah john, AM's pick up an ooomph i just dont hear in star-quads any other mic cable!!!scott knows what im talkin about :)a clarity that is scik, ya know ;)
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cables matter in the big picture, but you've got to have a rig and playback system to back it up. a lot of people pay no credence to cables, but they are part of the system that nedds to be addressed, eventually. spend your money on quality components first.
jr
so john, should i even bother w/ canare/starquad cables by myself.........
i have x-streamz like you do, would i hear a difference, cause i LOVE my am's ;)
then i'll need to get some more xstream for length.
jr
so john, ya need more length??? :wink2: :wink2:
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I just lined up some AM's. Can't wait to test em out once i get em. Bean--I can fix that cable if you like. Maybe this weekend (sunday). Let me know!
H
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I just lined up some AM's. Can't wait to test em out once i get em. Bean--I can fix that cable if you like. Maybe this weekend (sunday). Let me know!
H
i need rt angles dawg, i might place an order soon tho!!!plus i werk sunday :P
but thanks heath, we'll werk out a date or something!!! :-* ;)
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you werk too much ;)
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you werk too much ;)
i know, 1 -2 days a week would be great!!! ;D
i would rather werk 24 hrs in a row sometimes, i could werk 20 hr shifts, well maybe ;)
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i work an 8hr day, then a 13hr day, then a 12hr day, then an 7hr day, then 3 days off...every week. its nice, but is real tiring at the end of the stretch, but getting friday, sat, sunday off each week is worth it.
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heres hoping the X Streams are great cables...hopefully someone is accepting my bid for a pair of 15'ers!
(fingers crossed)
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I'm happy to make cables for anyone, I lik it - it is fun... Although I think you should learn how to do it yourself...
Buy from Markertek, mail me the pieces and in a few days I'll return your cables to you... All you need to do is B&P style the cables, send along a return mailer...
And some SHNs of any show you have taped woul dbe nice too...
PM me if you want me to build some cables for you! I'm getting ready to make 90>90 Canare 1' adapter cables for my 25' straight Canare cable... If I ever need a 90 end, just snap one of these puppies on there!
Terry
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the amount a person thinks cables make a difference is directly related to how much said person has spent on cables.
seriously though ... cables make a diference to a point but your playback system might not readily reflect the difference between $100 cables and $1000 cables
I personally would put the money elsewhere but YMMV
on a side note on a dvd forum I frequent some guy built a cable and included a rusty nail in the chain (seriously!!) 9\ 10 audio philes couldnt tell the difference between the cable with the nail and a store bought monster cable.
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I'm happy to make cables for anyone, I lik it - it is fun... Although I think you should learn how to do it yourself...
Buy from Markertek, mail me the pieces and in a few days I'll return your cables to you... All you need to do is B&P style the cables, send along a return mailer...
And some SHNs of any show you have taped woul dbe nice too...
PM me if you want me to build some cables for you! I'm getting ready to make 90>90 Canare 1' adapter cables for my 25' straight Canare cable... If I ever need a 90 end, just snap one of these puppies on there!
Terry
Terry, if you find building cables so fun, I've got about 8 8channel snakes I need built :-P Do 128 connectors (8 snakes of 8 channels each, two connectors on each end) then lemme know how fun it is :-P
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I think cables fall into the category of "deminishing returns". The ratio of money spent to bettering the sound is low compared to other gear.
If you go from a $300 pre to a $1500 pre you'll probably hear much more of a differance than you will between a $100 pair of cables and a $500 pair.
To me "worth it" depends on how much disposable income you have for taping. If I had the money for a pair of AM Excalibur IIs I'd be happy to have them in my bag!! :)
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I don't think cables play that much of a role in live PA recording. Too noisy as it is to notice what cables can offer to you. Real quiet ambient type recording where line noise can be easily heard, then maybe high end cables are going to do the trick....but not in the environments we tape in. Just IMO, shit I am still pissed I had to spend $500 on actives for the schoeps...but I did it for the smaller foot priint, not any gains in sound from better cables.
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>>on a side note on a dvd forum I frequent some guy built a cable and included a rusty nail in the chain (seriously!!) 9\ 10 audio philes couldnt tell the difference between the cable with the nail and a store bought monster cable.
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that just proves that monster cables suck! ;D
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Terry, if you find building cables so fun, I've got about 8 8channel snakes I need built :-P Do 128 connectors (8 snakes of 8 channels each, two connectors on each end) then lemme know how fun it is :-P
Hahaha! Yeah, cables are fun... What you are proposing is not a cable, but a headache!!!
Terry
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I've got a great set of 15ft Zaollas I'm looking to sell if anyone is interested (I moved to actives w/ my Schoeps). FWIW, I agree that I would upgrade components before cables, but a nice set of cables definitely makes a difference, especially in the tightness of the low end.
mitch
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I recently acquired a set of audio magics and a set of zaollas that are on the way to me. I am looking forward to see what the impact is to the rig...I am also going to run some comps against both and see what I prefer...
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x streams? i'm not sold on the x streams yet, but from the excalibur II up i think the cables are sweeet. just gotta find that sweet deal
(i have nothing against x streams, i just haven't ever compared them to anything else like i have the excaliburs, spellcaster and sorcerers)
interested to hear your thoughts
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So I dont think that these are the xstreams. The guy that sold them told me that
"These are the first ones Audio Magic came out with. They have the clear cover over the silver braided cable. The ones that are really stiff"
So I have not followed Audio Magic much, but got a good deal on this set of 25 foot cables...
I will be interested to see the results of the tests between these and the zaolla's though...
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so I did some researching and the Audio Magic cables that I bought (referenced above) are apparently the Sceptor II's, which if I am reading correctly were out before the X-streams...so we shall see how they stack up against the Zaolla's
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i have the older jackets on the mic cables too, purchased in 99, they arent as flexible as more recent AM's x-streamz im told ;)
remember phil lucks trying out some white AM's awhile back, hmmmmm :hmmm:,wonder what happened to those,PAGING PHIL ;)