Topic: Transparent Mod UA-5

[Brian]

We don't cheer blindly based on useless information like specs, we cheer because we're thrilled with the sound of the results.

first off i just wanted to say that i agree with everything you have said.......

however, IMHO,  specifications are not useless.  in fact they are the exact opposite and should be researched well before buying a piece of gear.  Just my opinion though.  I'd never buy anything if I couldn't see the specs or the producer would not publish them.  Doug won't provide the specifications cause he either, doesn't know them, or doesn't have time to do all the tests to produce new specs for the "modded" units.  They can't be too far deviated from the original specs which can be found in the owners manual.

corkscrew,  while it's admirable to demand specs,  your comments are hostile and way off base.  Doug saw a product that would be perfect for all tapers and capitalized on it by modding them for different sounds for different tapers.  Welcome to America.  Doug shouldn't be punished because he was the first to think of it. 

so pipe down already and buy the damn thing or don't.   your horrible diatribes here certainly are not doing you any good.

[Brian Skalinder]

however, IMHO, specifications are not useless. in fact they are the exact opposite and should be researched well before buying a piece of gear. Just my opinion though. I'd never buy anything if I couldn't see the specs or the producer would not publish them.

Wellll...useless was probably overdoing it.     Specs are handy at times, agreed.

[krebsy]

Just started this torrent. It's a Kimock gig from last month. Not SKB, but pretty much playing that material.

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=10426&viewcomm=76655#comm76655

It's 391 >T Mod Plus > JB3.  No PA, about 10-12' from the musicians, so sort of a "not quite stage" tape. Widely used mics, so I thought it might prove useful for those looking for comparisons.

[BobW]

IMHO, Oade Bros. are a model of good business.
Honest, fair, and with great customer service.
I asked alot of questions before buying my T-Mod. Everything that Doug answered was
honest and accurate and not "window-dressed."

The Mods are reasonable when parts and time are taken into consideration.

Will they replace a V3 or MiniMe ?  I really don't think they were intended to......

We're very lucky to have a few truly excellent vendors around this board !
And FWIW, I think that the Oade Bros. are one of them.

[Daryan]

It's tough to have an opinion different from other's around here lately from what I have read, too bad really.  But anyway, it's really rather quite simple what Doug does.  The parts don't cost much realitively speaking to what he charges for the mods, nor should they have to.  What you pay for and what you get is knowledge and time.  He knows exactly which parts to change out, he knows exactly which parts sound the best for the sound he is trying to get, and he knows where to point the soldering iron so that everything works.  I don't think he ever said you couldn't go do the exact same thing he is doing and save a lot of money has he?  He has even gone as far as to drop hints on what parts he is using, so if you want to try the mods, and most likely blow up your ua-5 inthe process, go right ahead.  Now, if you don't know how to do all of this, or more than likely do not even want to give it a whirl for fear of blowing what you just paid 250 bucks for up, you have him do it for you.  His business isn't unlike any other modding company out thwere modding dvd players, cd players, amps, etc...they simply know what they are doing to get a desired, and most definately improved sound and the majority of us do not.  It isn't some scam of a business model, it is simply meeting a need that people desire and are willing to pay for.  The mods change the specs in every way imaginable, so comparing stock specs to modded specs would be like comparing apples to nails, not even remotely close.  I imagine he doesn't have the equiptment to measure the specs anyway, and really why should he invest thousands of dollars to list numbers most of us don't and probably shouldn't be able to understand in the first place.  This hobby for as long as I can remember has been about trusting your ears, not reading some data sheet or graph that sets out what you are supposed to hear.  If I was supposed to hear things, I might like mics that my ears tell me I do not, and then not be happy in the slightest. 

Daryan

[hexyjones]

Just to be clear - I haven’t accused Oade of being dishonest or unfair…I merely remarked on his business model. Yes, somewhat cynically. But that is only in response to the “Oade walks on water” mentality. I have been taping for nearly 20 years, and I am well aware of the Oade legend and immense contribution he has made to this hobby. Shit – the DAT scene in the early 90s may not have even happened without his cables!

But it is disappointing, on technical oriented board to hear comments like:

He doesn't publish specs to prove they sound better because he, like a lot of us, does not believe that the specs he could come up with would have any meaning whatsoever to how the modded unit sounds

and

We don't cheer blindly based on useless information like specs

Which is funny because…on Oades website it says:

...This replaces the input capacitors, which are SMD electrolytic ( higher distortion and noise) with SMD film caps ( lower distortion and noise)

Well – he must have some specs and they must have some meaning! He is obviously making decisions based on specs. How else would he know how to compare the various components he swaps.  How can he make the above statement without specs?

THD cant be rocket science to measure…cant we do it with a spectral analysis…? Compare tone in to tone out?

Sorry – guys specs matter….they are not the ABSOLUTE last word on equipment…but they are very valuable when evaluating equipment. If somebody brings me a preamp and claims – “this has .01% THD” and I look at my preamp and find it has .1% THD…well - I’m going to try to hear the difference…because I know that it is there…that “difference” may manifest itself as “better” or “not better” – depending on – YES – how it sounds…indeed - that is the final word.

Ever notice how Creative would fluff up the JB3 line out stage…”Audiophile quality, 96 db dynamic range”…but says nothing about the analog input stage? Did they just forget? I doubt it. Maybe…the specs just didn’t look that good…so they don’t publish them…same with Edriol? I don’t know…

Clearly – specs like THD would be useful in comparing the mods…

Perhaps this all comes down to one of Audio’s dirty little secrets:

The human ear likes a little distortion – that’s why some folks like tube preamps so much…they like that harmonic distortion that occurs in the tube…note – were talking very slight at subtle distortion – I forget what order of harmonics tubes affect…?

Ok – I’ve seen Phish enough this week…I’ll try to shut up.

[Todd R]

But it is disappointing, on technical oriented board to hear comments like:

He doesn't publish specs to prove they sound better because he, like a lot of us, does not believe that the specs he could come up with would have any meaning whatsoever to how the modded unit sounds

and

We don't cheer blindly based on useless information like specs

I don't find these comments to be disappointing at all.  Specs are just one way, and a pretty poor way at that, to understand if a piece of audio equipment is any good.  As you alluded to, if we relied on specs nobody would be using tube equipment, which many people do in fact use and like tremendously.  And if we relied on specs, we probably would all have pioneer or sony playback receivers purchased from Best Buy.  Face it, there are tons of games to be played on developing specs and plenty of very mediocre equipment sport fantastic specs.

What I do find disappointing is posts of yours like these:

But - I cant help but wonder if this device's reputation has been manufacured by Oade. The guy offers 4 mods to the thing...he is doing a nice business. Is it possible that Oade picked this device simply because of the oppourtunity to mod? Maybe the parts used in the UA5 are more common and have more alternative parts available.

For all we know the M-Audio DUO may sound better but not offer as many "mod oppourtunities" to Oade...so he pumps up the UA-5 instead...

Nothing wrong...Oade is genius! Mr Oade has apparently discovered that he can create 3 different(note: different...not better) sounds from this device by swapping various sets of parts out. He has given each "mod" a name and charges double the price of a stock unit. Pretty slick...epsecially when there are few specs available for this device (for comparison) and he publishes no specs to support the advantages of his mods. Oade must have gotten a sweet deal on a raft of UA5s when they were discontinued...

With the sarcasm, innuendo, and accusations you go far beyond stating your opinion or even being mildly cynical as you keep stating.  I and many others apparently read your posts as pretty hostile, bashing what the Oades do and suggesting pretty clearly that they are just hucksters taking our money from us and giving us nothing.

You keep acting like the specs are absolutely imperative to judging equipment.  I don't.  To me, you can judge equipment via several different means, including:

1)  specs
2)  reputation of the company/individuals making or modifying the equipment
3)  performance of past products made by that company/individual
4)  reputation of the product among people you know and trust who have used it
5)  your own analysis and judgement about how the product performs

So the Oade modded UA5's don't provide one of these means of judging the product, so what?  For me and for many others, the Oade modded UA5s get very high marks on the other 4 metrics for judging them.  Which is good enough for us, especially since at least some of us find specs to be the weakest of all the metrics and the one most easily manipulated.

Bottom line, and once again, if you don't like them, don't buy them.  And if you want to insert your opinion ("I don't find these mods offered by Oade to be worth the money"), that's fine.  But I still say I find your sarcastic, inflammatory, and accusatory tone that you use to bash the Oades to be tiring and I really wish you'd just drop it.

[Daryan]

No offense dude, I clearly respect your opinion, but if specs are what you want to argue here, then why would you be using a midiman flying calf if you really love specs, for that matter the tascam's as well??

[marc0789]

Ummm...What is the problem with the UA-5 stock?
It is already transparent and has a nice soundstage STRAIGHT OUTTA THE BOX!

Nothing wrong...Oade is genius! Mr Oade has apparently discovered that he can create 3 different(note: different...not better) sounds from this device by swapping various sets of parts out. He has given each "mod" a name and charges double the price of a stock unit. Pretty slick...epsecially when there are few specs available for this device (for comparison) and he publishes no specs to support the advantages of his mods. Oade must have gotten a sweet deal on a raft of UA5s when they were discontinued...(no wonder he wont work on units he didn't sell) - Now he is pumping them out like no tomorrow...thanks in no small part to the cheering section here at TS.com.

What I want to know is: why doesn't Oade offer a "Mod Pod"? - like an external box that would let you choose any of the mods or stock - that way with a flick of the switch you could switch from w-mod to t-mod to p-mod...i.e. - why not make all the mods available in one device...even if it required a small outboard box...

give it a rest. doug's prices are fair. jesus, he'll change a mod that he's done for like $50. he's worked wonders with the sbm1, which imo is a piece of crap when stock. can't comment on the ua-5, haven't heard enough tapes.

[BJ]

No offense dude, I clearly respect your opinion, but if specs are what you want to argue here, then why would you be using a midiman flying calf if you really love specs, for that matter the tascam's as well??

       

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Which is funny because…on Oades website it says:

...This replaces the input capacitors, which are SMD electrolytic ( higher distortion and noise) with SMD film caps ( lower distortion and noise)

Well – he must have some specs and they must have some meaning! He is obviously making decisions based on specs. How else would he know how to compare the various components he swaps.  How can he make the above statement without specs?

You picked a rather poor example with this one.  There are alot of variables in capacitor design and there are audible effects of the design choices.  The assertion that film capacitors are lower noise than electrolytic capacitors has nothing to do with what Doug Oade says or believes.  It's a demonstrable result of the construction and material selection of the device.  It's the same as the difference between carbon and metal film resistors.

A good cynic would have done some research before posting that quote. 

[Tim]

but alas corkscrew is just an ignoramus talking out of his ass...

[Brian Skalinder]

Yes, somewhat cynically.

Apparently, you haven't taken my recommendation of practicing your message board cynicism before trying it again - because once again your tone still reveals plenty of (apparently unintended) hostility and insinuation.

I won't go on as others have basically addressed my other contentions in your most recent post.  However, I will request that you answer my previous questions (conveniently unanswered, similar to Creative neglecting to provide information on the JB3s analog input stage):

Do you have substantial experiences using the stock UA5 ? Digi-mod UA5? W/P/T mods? What criteria are you using in defining the UA5 as a decidedly "average" piece of gear?

Inquiring minds want to know.  And I'll add:  since you're so hung up on the specs, please let us know when you can measure them and provide input back to the community.

[marc0789]

but alas corkscrew is just an ignoramus talking out of his ass...

I don't like anyone invading my turf.

[BobW]

Perhaps this all comes down to one of Audio’s dirty little secrets:

The human ear likes a little distortion – that’s why some folks like tube preamps so much…they like that harmonic distortion that occurs in the tube…note – were talking very slight at subtle distortion – I forget what order of harmonics tubes affect…?

 All, but it's the 2nd-order are the prominent ones that differentiate the "tube sound", I think.
 BTW, Even Order = Musical Octaves, Odd-Order are often not musical and "harsh"

I think that modern electronics and solid engineering can simulate a tube very well.