Topic: New Zoom H6

[Mdifilm]

Hi everyone, sorry for the lateness, been busy with a bit of work, now, I'm not a sound guy, just an indie filmmaker, so my test may not be right... However, as pointed out to me at another forum, I've done the same test twice and the result is still Tascam DR-60D has less noise, this Sunday we are doing one more test with a Sound Engineering between the two devices. He did tested the Tascam earlier at a film festival and liked how it sounded (cleaner than his H4N).

For practicality wise, the Tascam mounted under the DSLR is better for a one-man or two-men crew operations as the camera man can monitor the video/audio without too many head movements. Zoom will requires a hotshoe mount or a cage or a magic arm so you can easily see the settings (once tripod is set on level for filmming). But of course, having a good sound guy definately helps.

The previous two tests I've done, here's how it was set:

- Mics: Audio Technica AT8035 and Sennheiser MKE600
- Talent: PC Laptop playing via it's speaker system of a feature film I've made in 2005 and released in 2007, I have looped one of the early scene which contains dialogue and music
- Distance: both secured on two mic stands and about 2.5' away from the source (trying to set as a 'on location' distance test)
- Room - quiet, this is a room created for ADR usage, it's not 100% noise free, but it has 90% coverage. We have done many ADR in this room for indie films and they all sounded great (for filmmaking usage)
- me: sitting in the other room looking at the mics via a full open window.

Plugged Sennheiser on T1 and AT on T2

Devices: Tascam DR-60D and Zoom H6: no limiter set, no cut of set. both uses batteries, both devices provide phantom power to the mics, no -20 padswitch turned on, no backup tracks recording (I thought the H6 only do backup tracks on L/R - which is the module part).

Tascam DR-60D set : Gain at Mid, knob dial to 3 o'clock line
Zoom H6 set : dial knob to 5-6 level

recorded level, both sounded great, brought it into Premiere cs6 with monitor speaker, listening it, Sennheiser mic is more sensitive and provides lounder volume, both sounded great. Did a quick normalization with -12db, Zoom's has noise, Tascam barely can hear it.

At one forum, I was told that the dial on the Zoom was set too low and that everyone said to set it on 7-8 would be best, so I tried the same scenario test again. Except this time to set the Zoom H6's dial to 7-8 area

Without normalizing, and bringing it just as it is into Premiere CS6, Zoom H6 definately has noise, then I did a normalize to -12db on the Zoom's audio track, it still display greater noise level than the Tascam.

We are taping this Sunday's test (video/audio) and we shall know the result

[vegeta_ban]

One thing I have noticed is the screen scratches easily

[404 Not Found]

One thing I have noticed is the screen scratches easily

Thanks for the heads up on that, as I was wondering about the screen and how durable it is...I may place a cell phone screen protector on mine now that you mention this!  TY! 

Already thinking that I would love to modify mine and replace the stock XLR/TRS combo connectors with 4 new locking Neutrik NCJ9FI-S XLR TRS Combo Connectors.  Looking at the body of the unit and how it has been designed, it does not appear that it will allow for this   I am still surprised they did not have this feature to begin with!

[vegeta_ban]

I was surprised by that as well, I'm probably going to use gaffers tape to keep them plugged in. If you do the mod tell us how it went.

[fguidry]

I'm not understanding the desire for locking jacks. The jacks are pretty darned tight, so I'm not expecting them to come slipping out, and I think I'd rather have a cable pull out and lose a recording than have my recorder pulled down by someone tripping on a cable - although I think the current non-locking jack would indeed hold onto the cable and get knocked over.

Fran

[404 Not Found]

Just a personal preference on my end.

[Mdifilm]

So this past Sunday we did a test with an audio engineer Jordan and here is what we found. Tascam DR-60D preamp noise is 30 db less than Zoom H6. Really low overall. Zoom H6 preamp is still better than the Zoom H4n. Video will be out this Thursday. I contacted Zoom and told them about the noise and they suggested me to check out the video posted by juicedlink. I then told them that the 30db and immediately they are willing to give me a refund... I actually going to keep both for usage that best suited for each.

[fguidry]

So this past Sunday we did a test with an audio engineer Jordan and here is what we found. Tascam DR-60D preamp noise is 30 db less than Zoom H6. Really low overall. Zoom H6 preamp is still better than the Zoom H4n. Video will be out this Thursday. I contacted Zoom and told them about the noise and they suggested me to check out the video posted by juicedlink. I then told them that the 30db and immediately they are willing to give me a refund... I actually going to keep both for usage that best suited for each.

We're having this one way discussion in more than one forum. You keep saying things like "30 db more noise" and I keep asking for details on your comparison method and for sample clips. 30 dB is a blinkin' huge difference! Especially when I hear little or no difference between the H6 preamps and my RME UFX.

But if your H6 is 30 dB noisier than your than your Tascam I would do what Zoom suggests and send it back.

Fran

[fguidry]

In my first comparo I was pleasantly surprised that the H6 preamps sounded like they had a noise floor similar to my RME UFX - that is, an inaudible one. But that test used different mics for each chain and had poor level matching. http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/08/15/zoom-h6-acoustic-guitar-shootout/

I decided to do something a bit more rigorous. I put the battery in the Rode NT4, fed it through a Coleman LS3 passive switcher, and then into the H6 built-in XLR and the RME UFX.

Here are clips with a low volume test tone and the room tone - what passes for quiet in a suburban bedroom:

RME UFX Low Volume Tone

Zoom H6 Low Volume Tone

and here is a bit of slack key guitar:

RME UFX Music Sample

Zoom H6 Music Sample

Fran

[Ozpeter]

I listened admittedly briefly to the two room tone samples, and while the H6 was clearly noisier, in real world terms I don't believe it would be a problem - I had to crank my amp up pretty high (using headphones) and if I used that level for listening to normal recordings, I'd probably be in the ear hospital now!

[fguidry]

I added another set of samples to the H6 - UFX comparison http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/08/28/zoom-h6-vs-rme-ufx/ in an update section. Some folks were commenting on the high noise levels of the H6 when the preamp gain was cranked to the max, so I used a low output ribbon mic through the splitter and cranked the H6 preamp all the way up. I had to do the same to the RME UFX, then add 2 dB of digital gain besides, to get them to the same level.

RME Ribbon

Zoom Ribbon

The test tone was reading around 50 dB C weighted at the mic position, so the test signal was pretty darned quiet. As you say, Peter, the H6 generates a bit more noise, but in order to hear it we have to crank things up so much that normal recordings would be unlistenable. At realistic levels the H6 gives the same audible result as the UFX.

Fran

[Steinn]

Hi
I use a Telinga Stereo Mic with 3.5mm plug in field on my new H6. Had the H4n earlier for several years now.
I tested the mic/H6 by putting into my bed with pointing the parabola downwards and added 2 douvets on top of it.
Made the recording, from level 10-7 and added +20dB of gain in Audacity, hear the result at
http://tromsofoto.blogspot.no/2013/09/zoom-h6-review-in-field-and-post.html
I also added a couple of real-life recordings in field.
CONS:
* The file-system makes me go bananas! I will have the date&time as a filename, not only as the name of the folder. I don't want to handle 15 different ZOOM0005.wav or whatever.. That makes a mess in my workflow!
* I want the automatic split on long recordings to be less than 3 H 15 mins (why not 1h, H4n had 2H5mins), my computer struggles to handle this size of files! I make recordings in nature all night and H6 creates gigantic files..
*I dont need the X/Y and carries it only due to the 3.5mm input - stupid engineering! Size reduction with 1/4 if I could leave it at home!
*Monitoring the headphones ALL THE TIME, you have to cut the mics input (LR-switch) to stop the sound from the mics. On H4n sound in earphones came on only when pushing rec once.
PRO
*Seems they killed the noise issue..
*Start-up time is 4 sec.
*Battery life with a 6600Mah USB external  Power is fantastic (several days of recording Wav's) Only PIP (Plug-in-Power)used, Not Phantom Power.
But all in all (when they fix the Folder/file-mystery in next firmware-update) I'll love it 
Stein, Norway

[Scooter123]

I ran a line input to the 3.5mm inputs for channels 5 and 6 on the xy microphone head because I use an external preamp. 

This input on the xy microphone head channels 5-6 has a tremendous amount of gain.

I had to dial down the inputs to between levels 1 and 2 on the dial while the other inputs (1-4) for the same line input could be recorded at a input level of between 4-5 on the dial.

I could not find a setting to bypass the gain in that xy head.

Suggestions? 

[runonce]

I ran a line input to the 3.5mm inputs for channels 5 and 6 on the xy microphone head because I use an external preamp. 

This input on the xy microphone head channels 5-6 has a tremendous amount of gain.

I had to dial down the inputs to between levels 1 and 2 on the dial while the other inputs (1-4) for the same line input could be recorded at a input level of between 4-5 on the dial.

I could not find a setting to bypass the gain in that xy head.

Suggestions?

Is that 3.5mm jack mic or line level input?...sounds like it's expecting mic level...hence the overload of gain...?

[Scooter123]

The label on the 3.5mm jack states Mic/Line

So yes, my assumption is that there is quite a bit of gain and there is no workaround in the internal settings