Topic: Sony PCM-D100

[Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)]

However, adding something like, say, the Sound Devices USBPre 2, a USB battery and some cables to connect them to one another decreases the portability of the recorder. [/unquote]

The Mic2496 V2 doesn't require an external USB battery - it can run on an optional rechargable LiIon battery pack - so the load is reduced quite a bit.

[Amir]

However, adding something like, say, the Sound Devices USBPre 2, a USB battery and some cables to connect them to one another decreases the portability of the recorder. [/unquote]

The Mic2496 V2 doesn't require an external USB battery - it can run on an optional rechargable LiIon battery pack - so the load is reduced quite a bit.

That's true, but it would be useful for those who already have the Mic2496 V2. For many of those who don't, having to add a $599 device like that to a $799 recorder would be out of the question. Furthermore, that might be a personal taste but I prefer the USBPre 2 to Mic2496 V2.

[ghibliss]

For those that are already recording with DSD capable recorders such as the Korg or plan to use the PCM-D100 how do you plan to edit your files from a live recording?  I have been unable to find a single editing tool that will allow anything comparable to what we currently have available with PCM editing software (I use Wavelab, Audacity, Soundforge, and Izotope). The tool supplied by Korg will let you split a file however this is a pretty crude way to make tracks from your concert recording. I believe only workstations are available to perform the editing functions that we would like to use for post production work on these files and the hardware is quite costly.

I spoke with someone from Sony studios and they said that the sound quality is not something that everyone prefers over a properly recorded PCM 24/96 or 24/192 file. 

I presently record 24/96 digital in from an external a/d converter via spdif to a Tascam DR100 MKII with excellent results.  I plan on getting the Sony recorder to go to 24/192 and see if it makes an improvement in the sound.  I also plan on getting the Mytek DAC and playing back recorded material from the same concert recorded in both DSD as well as 24/192 PCM to see if there is any reason to go through the trouble of switching to this format.  If I am unable to perform all of the editing that I would like to perform short of converting DSD to 24/192 to edit and then convert back to DSD I doubt that the difference is worth what everyone is writing about. 



 

[Amir]

For those that are already recording with DSD capable recorders such as the Korg or plan to use the PCM-D100 how do you plan to edit your files from a live recording?  I have been unable to find a single editing tool that will allow anything comparable to what we currently have available with PCM editing software (I use Wavelab, Audacity, Soundforge, and Izotope). The tool supplied by Korg will let you split a file however this is a pretty crude way to make tracks from your concert recording. I believe only workstations are available to perform the editing functions that we would like to use for post production work on these files and the hardware is quite costly.

I spoke with someone from Sony studios and they said that the sound quality is not something that everyone prefers over a properly recorded PCM 24/96 or 24/192 file. 

I presently record 24/96 digital in from an external a/d converter via spdif to a Tascam DR100 MKII with excellent results.  I plan on getting the Sony recorder to go to 24/192 and see if it makes an improvement in the sound.  I also plan on getting the Mytek DAC and playing back recorded material from the same concert recorded in both DSD as well as 24/192 PCM to see if there is any reason to go through the trouble of switching to this format.  If I am unable to perform all of the editing that I would like to perform short of converting DSD to 24/192 to edit and then convert back to DSD I doubt that the difference is worth what everyone is writing about.

All valid points indeed. As far as I'm concerned, though, I want to see if the internal microphones are really worth the $799 price tag. If they surpass the X/Y mics of the H6 and those of the older D50 by a meaningful margin, IMO it'll then be worth purchasing because both its internal mics can be used in a wide range of settings and, perhaps more important than that, its digital input can be utilized to record in combination with, say, the USBPre 2 and XLR mics. The combo will undoubtedly create one of the most professional and portable setups as the D100 itself isn't that large and, like the USBPre 2, is quite durable. On the other hand, if its internal mics display the same degree of noise performance compared with those of the D50/H6, my expectations will be badly tempered. After all, Sony has always touted the recording capabilities of the D100, and I do hope it truly delivers in that regard.

Like you I also count on its enhanced PCM capabilities and am itching to get the first comprehensive review as it becomes available somewhere.

[dogmusic]

If I am unable to perform all of the editing that I would like to perform short of converting DSD to 24/192 to edit and then convert back to DSD I doubt that the difference is worth what everyone is writing about.

Thanks for bringing up this issue. There seems to be a DSD vs PCM war going on, and since the postings and articles supporting one medium or the other mostly contradict each other, it's not possible to get a real sense of the benefits or sound quality of each except from first hand listening.

Even then, it's hard to know what you're listening to. Apparently your DAC or Mac may be converting DSD to PCM to get it out the analog outputs -- or is it the other way around? 

It seems that DSD is not easily edited but I'm assuming the D100 would at least allow track splits. 

It is suggested by some that DSD is best suited for a live to 2-track session, or for archiving, or as a mastering medium when transferred from an analog tape final mix.

And it is analog tape that DSD is being compared to by its supporters. One conclusion from a comp was that the PCM 24/192 recording sounded like the mic feed but that the DSD 5.6 sounded like the live musicians.

Anyone here with experience with DSD? I'm confused.

[H₂O]

There is DSD editing software out there but it is very expensive. A company called parallex or something makes it

You can track DSD files with Korg Audiogate

There is a program from Phillips that will compress DSF files into lossless compressed DST files

DSD files sound more open as compared to PCM IMO

DSD also allows more headroom before clipping

[dogmusic]

There is DSD editing software out there but it is very expensive. A company called parallex or something makes it

You can track DSD files with Korg Audiogate

There is a program from Phillips that will compress DSF files into lossless compressed DST files

DSD files sound more open as compared to PCM IMO

DSD also allows more headroom before clipping

Good info. Thanks for that.

My understanding is that if you don't have Korg hardware, you need a Twitter account to run Audiogate. From their download page:

"AudioGate can be freely downloaded and used by anyone, but either

    A KORG MR series product or
    A valid Twitter account

is required in order to activate the software.

Users who do not own a KORG MR series product are also subject to the following limitations.

    User support will not be available from KORG Inc. nor from its regional distributors.

    The Auto Tweet function cannot be disabled.

    * Internet access is required when activating, exporting, or creating a disc.
    * You must allow AudioGate to automatically tweet to your Twitter account."

I'm not sure how that works because I don't have a Twitter account.

[Amir]

Just to keep this thread updated. . . B&H now says that the D100 will be available on Feb 28 2014. I was expecting to see it released earlier -- perhaps in January as it'll be available in East Asia in a couple of weeks or so.

[yates7592]

Seems to be a bit more info on this:
http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/files/cat/audio/pressreleases/NEW_PRODUCT-Sony_PCM-D100_recorder-AES_2013.pdf

"The product is Sony's highest-quality digital recorder....."

Interestingly it states that internal noise from A-D conversion is reduced by using 2 A-D converters for a single channel - this achieves a signal to noise ratio of "up to" 100dB. I checked the M10 spec (p.97 in the manual) and that suggests a SNR of 87dB, so potentially the D100 is quite a step up in preamps, or am I not comparing apples with apples here??

Playback and headphone amps are also quite a bit upgraded according to the description.

[Amir]

Seems to be a bit more info on this:
http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/files/cat/audio/pressreleases/NEW_PRODUCT-Sony_PCM-D100_recorder-AES_2013.pdf

"The product is Sony's highest-quality digital recorder....."

Interestingly it states that internal noise from A-D conversion is reduced by using 2 A-D converters for a single channel - this achieves a signal to noise ratio of "up to" 100dB. I checked the M10 spec (p.97 in the manual) and that suggests a SNR of 87dB, so potentially the D100 is quite a step up in preamps, or am not comparing apples with apples here??

Playback and headphone amps are also quite a bit upgraded according to the description.

Curiously, what's the SNR value for the older D50? Is it lower than that of the M10? My own experience shows that M10's internal mics are very quiet (the quietest mics I've seen in a portable recorder), but at the same time they produce some sort of dark, muffled audio which I don't like much. I prefer the natural, quasi-live qualities of the D50 mics to the dark, static qualities of the M10 mics. Now if the D100 can provide quieter preamps compared with those of the M10 while retaining and improving the D50 mics, I guess I've found my next recorder -- something that can also complement my USBPre 2 via its digital input.

[yates7592]

Checked the D50 spec and it says "93dB or above for the optical line input". So that's roughly half-way between the M10 and the D100, although I wonder if the 100dB quoted for the D100 is only for the optical input? Either way it seems quieter.

[Amir]

Checked the D50 spec and it says "93dB or above for the optical line input". So that's roughly half-way between the M10 and the D100, although I wonder if the 100dB quoted for the D100 is only for the optical input? Either way it seems quieter.

Thanks for checking. The D100 will be released in Japan in a few days and I guess we should be able to taste its first video/blog reviews soon. I'm not usually excited about recorders sans XLR/phantom power, but this one seems to be an exception with its digital input and great internal mics.

[yates7592]

I keep scouring the web for the manual. It must be there somewhere if released very soon, but maybe only in Japanese?

[Amir]

I keep scouring the web for the manual. It must be there somewhere if released very soon, but maybe only in Japanese?

I also do that every now and then in hopes of gaining access to its manual. So far no luck though. Honestly the Feb. 28, 2014 release date in the USA really hurts -- it's too much of a wait! As I'm in the Mid East, I'm trying to see if it becomes available in countries like Malaysia or Singapore sooner. Importing it from Japan might also be a possibility albeit a faraway one. I badly need something to get my USBPre 2 up and running in the field and Marantz PMD 661MKII or Tascam DR-100MKII don't cut it for me -- they're bigger and don't have good internal mics either. I don't like most Tascam products at all. <smile>

[Amir]

Guys, do you know if I get it from Amazon Japan, the menu will be in English or in Japanese? Obviously I don't want the latter as I can't work with it. I have someone in Japan who might be able to order one for me from here: http://www.amazon.co.jp/82E3B83-PCM-D100-SONY-83E3B82E3E3E3E383-D100/dp/B00FAY1LQ8
It'll be available there in a week or so and I badly need a small, rugged recorder with high-quality internal mics and digital input (for use with USBPre 2). Everything points to the D100.