Topic: Tool to find dropped samples

[Karl]

I have been transferring a slew of old tapes to computer.  I do it this way: tape deck>ua-5>jb3 then transfer to pc via firewire.  Even though I've been keeping up on the jb3 'clean up' operation, there are still occasional clicks and pops introduced.

Upon close examination most of the clicks and pops are merely dropped samples.  If there was a way to use software to find these dropped samples it would make cleaning up the file a whole lot quicker and easier.

Is there a software tool out there that will find dropped samples?

[F.O.Bean]

actuaslly, you really want to form,at the jb3's HD, a 'disc cleanup' doesnt reformat, just cleans up small things

[NewHomebrew]

I wish there was an automated way to do this, maybe there is?

The hardest part is finding the little bastards.  This is the only thing I use Adobe Audition for.  I open the file in spectral view and zoom out.  Then scroll through, bit by bit and look for hot transients.  You'll see a thin straight line going all the way from top to bottom.  Not all of these will be clicks, but you can listen and decide.  Then place the cursor right on the click so you know just when it occurs.  I have the file open in Wavelab as well, zoom in to find the area visually, highlight and waveform restore.  The restore function in Audition does weird things with gain that I don't like.

Good luck.

[dklein]

I'm wondering why there are any dropped samples at all?  The UA-5 > JB3 combo should be clean.  How do you know they're dropped samples?
btw, there is a good tool in Wavelab for detecting glitches like that Analysis, Audio error detection and correction

But still...you shouldn't be getting them.  Any chance it's just your cassette deck picking up noise from other electrical things (like the fridge turning on/off)

[NewHomebrew]

I'm wondering why there are any dropped samples at all?  The UA-5 > JB3 combo should be clean.  How do you know they're dropped samples?
btw, there is a good tool in Wavelab for detecting glitches like that Analysis, Audio error detection and correction[/b

I wish I could rely on that a little more.  Sometimes it misses stuff.  Maybe I don't have all the settings right.

[Karl]

Mine are dropped samples--not added or misplaced.  When I zoom in on them (both directions, horizonally and vertically) there is no sample there at all.  And it's certainly at a spot where there is supposed to be a high db sample as part of the waveform.  And when you listen you hear a nice healthy 'pop'.  Bean might be right tho--I did some deleting and then just did disc clean up without formatting.

I'll check out Wavelab.

[Karl]

Ok, I've reformatted and I transferred about 5 tapes with no problems.  But then I did a couple with dropped samples all over the place.  I'm running the jb3 and UA-5 off A/C power, I wonder if that matters. 

Anyways, where can I find wavelab?  I thought it would be easy to find a copy, but it hasn't been easy.

[Brian Skalinder]

Anyways, where can I find wavelab? I thought it would be easy to find a copy, but it hasn't been easy.

Easy as Steinberg's Wavelab webpage.

[rocksuitcase]

Teh tile mis lead me to think the band TOOL had found some lost music (samples) and were releasing it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  My mind is not right yet this morning.

I have had some strange issues with playing back files made on the JB3 on my computer.  pops happen randomly about every 2-3 seconds.  The files don't ever play back in any form, 48k, 44.1k when playing back from the computer.  If I play them straight out of the JB3's headphone jack, they sound fine, burn the files to cd on the same computer and they sound fine played back from same computer OR on any other playback set up.  Kindms tried to help me figure it out and we concluded I have a hardware glitch somewhere that is not wanting to playback those files cleanly.  This dropped sample thing seems like it may be part of my problem too, but I have not searched out every pop or click since they burn to CD properly.

I hope this isn't a thread hi jack.  My problem is OK, please refer to Karl's post on dropped samples and add any advice for him.

[Karl]

Anyways, where can I find wavelab? I thought it would be easy to find a copy, but it hasn't been easy.

Easy as Steinberg's Wavelab webpage.

bAh!  thanks anyways bri, but i'm not going to pay that much for something that I don't even know will help.  Maybe I'll download the demo anyway and check it out.  But I'm going to try and attach a short sample so you guys can check out the issue I'm hearing.

[Brian Skalinder]

Probably not what you want to hear, but IMO you're going about this all wrong:  why waste time and possible expense fixing the symptom instead of addressing the root cause?  If I were you, I'd:

• skip the whole fix process outright
• systematically identify the cause of the problem in your transfer lineage
• solve the problem
• re-transfer any previous transfers that had problems instead of messing around with fixing after the fact

[Karl]

Probably not what you want to hear, but IMO you're going about this all wrong:  why waste time and possible expense fixing the symptom instead of addressing the root cause?  If I were you, I'd:

• skip the whole fix process outright
• systematically identify the cause of the problem in your transfer lineage
• solve the problem
• re-transfer any previous transfers that had problems instead of messing around with fixing after the fact

Thanks, Brian, that actually is what I'm doing.  The real reason I'm approaching it the way I am--I'm not about to retransfer 10 gigs worth of audio cassettes.  I think I've figured that I'm having a problem because I'm running on a/c power.  Don't know why that would make a difference, but that's the only thing different than when I do live recordings (and have no dropped samples that way).  Now, the sample above is one of my worst--I did retransfer that guy (and a few others like it).  Normally, I'll hear one pop about every 5 minutes or so.  Those I'd like to use a tool to take care of.  And I think for my remaining transfers I'll use batt power and see how that goes.  Thanks anyways!

[Brian Skalinder]

The real reason I'm approaching it the way I am--I'm not about to retransfer 10 gigs worth of audio cassettes.

10GB of cassettes = roughly 20 hrs.  IME you might very well spend another 20 hours fixing those 10GB to remove all the pops - I strongly suspect no s/w utility will catch all the dropped / misplaced samples, so each transfer will still require a manual look-through (which from the way you describe it, sounds painfully tedious, time consuming, not to mention prone to error once the eyes/brain grow weary).  If they're masters or otherwise irreplaceable recordings, it seems like a no-brainer to me to go back and re-transfer to ensure there are no problems.  If they're not masters, then maybe it isn't worth it to you.  I know it would be to me, but we all have different perspectives and priorities, and I can be a perfectionist about this sorta thing.

I think I've figured that I'm having a problem because I'm running on a/c power.

Huh.  I wonder if it's due to a lousy power supply, or noisy power lines, etc.  At least you've narrowed it down!  Good luck and have fun. 

[Karl]

Here's what I was hoping for--a program that goes in and looks at all the 1's and 0's of all the samles in the wav file.  If I understand correctly, when there's a dropped sample then that sample was recorded as all 0's.  It would be cool if a program could identify samples that were all 0's, then tell me where it was.  Then I could go back and listen to just that spot, and decide if it was an error or not, and if it was an error just go in and redraw that one sample.

Prob no luck of finding a program like that, but was hoping anyway.

[NewHomebrew]

If only it were that easy.

Some basic stuff:  when you are transferring, turn off all the other stuff on your computer.

Kill background processes.

Disconnect from internet - disable your connection.

Disable anti-virus.

Turn off auto-play on your CD/DVD drives.

Don't open or read from your CD/DVD drives.

Use a transfer program that doesn't use tons of resources (ie Wavelab isntead of something like Sony Vegas).

Turn off everything except the program that is recording