Topic: What to do to improve my recordings?

[Chaosu]

Hello again : )
So after my last questions-topic i bought equimpent and started recording gigs.
I like it, but I'm getting tried of quality issues... this is very demotivating.
I have problems with little 'buzz' (which i think is kind of disortion). My rig is:
SP-CMC-4 > SP-SPSB-10 > Edirol R-09HR
What concerns me is especially audible when recording 'synthetic' bass (like hiphop gig) (but not only) and recording with edirol alone gives better results (tested during Kelly Rowlands gig).
It (to my ears) does not depend on volume (I can be completly deaf after a gig in small club and find recording great, and the other time I can say it wasn't that loud but the disortion will be there on recording).
I'm attaching few samples from different concerts, hope that You'll find out what the problem. Thanks in advance for any help.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/jrqi1t

[6stringer]

There are undoubtedly others here more qualified than myself to respond, but i'll give it a stab.

I use a very similar configuration: SP-CMC-8 > SP-SPSB-8 > Edirol R-09HR
I've never run into the issue you're having with my rig.

Your last two samples sound distorted but don't show any clipping.
Are you going mic in or line in into the Edirol? Good battery in the power module?
Sounds to me like the distortion is occurring in the mics.

With a good battery at a loud show, you should be able to go mics > batt box > R-09 HR line in without any problem.
What other settings are you using? Do you have AGC and/or Limiter switched off? If you ARE going mic in, is sensitivity switched to low?

[Chaosu]

All settings are correct, no limiters, low gain and line in. 100% working batetteries (checked many times).
That's the problem, disortion but no clipping. You can hear it in first two too, just much less, little buzz when it's loud.
So You say this may be limitation of my mics!?

[kfrinkle]

All settings are correct, no limiters, low gain and line in. 100% working batetteries (checked many times).
That's the problem, disortion but no clipping. You can hear it in first two too, just much less, little buzz when it's loud.
So You say this may be limitation of my mics!?

You know... I hate to tell you this, but my CMC-8s do something similar in high spl situations.  Even after I got them 3-wire modded.  They still sound great for lower spl shows. I got tired of this problem as well, and got me some CA-14s cards  and CA-ST9100 preamp in the hopes that I can end distortion in high spl situations.  I have not had a chance to test them out yet however.

The thing that always bothered me was that many people out there do NOT have problems with the setup you (and I) have.  So what gives?

[taperwheeler]

The prob is likely the mics.

I had similar problems with my sp at setup.  Some shows sounded distorted, others not with varying degrees of spl's.  I ended up getting the low sens mod and the ca-9100 preamp...am much happier...pulling distortion free recordings.

[Liquid Drum]

My SP-CMC-8 are tanks. I got them modded anyway and use the CA-9100 to get the gain back and I have stack taped many a time with zero distortion (and without windscreens). I even stacked Opeth 2 times and recordings came out crisp.

[nameloc01]

Karl,
It gets to the point, where at some exact specific place at some shows , every mic will clip. If its only happened to you a couple of times (meaning far fewer than more) it may just be that those few instances, at those shows were just too much. If it is happening a lot, you may want to get those mics checked out. Seeing as how you're running them 3w, they should be fine the vast majority of the time.
(Maybe your BB is f'ed up also)

I taped Ministry last summer..ran U853>8532s, those are the AT power modules. They raise the SPL handling on my mics to around 144db before they will tweak. Now, I can tell you, and Andy (junk) can verify the absolutely fucking insane volume that they were playing ..I was able to tell just by how I had to set my levels that these did/do in fact, handle (quite a bit) higher spls than my ps2 (haven't clipped this yet)setup. I had my HI-MD levels completely maxed out and was *barely* hitting midpoint on my levels. Still, when I got home and played it back, there was a very faint hint of clipping. I'm pretty certain, with the volume that show was, it would be very difficult to pull one that wouldn't.
Point was, that show was just a little past that point where my mics could handle it.
If Andy hadn't had an extra set of earplugs, I can safely say I would have walked out...it was that loud.

[kfrinkle]

Karl,
It gets to the point, where at some exact specific place at some shows , every mic will clip. If its only happened to you a couple of times (meaning far fewer than more) it may just be that those few instances, at those shows were just too much. If it is happening a lot, you may want to get those mics checked out. Seeing as how you're running them 3w, they should be fine the vast majority of the time.
(Maybe your BB is f'ed up also)

I taped Ministry last summer..ran U853>8532s, those are the AT power modules. They raise the SPL handling on my mics to around 144db before they will tweak. Now, I can tell you, and Andy (junk) can verify the absolutely fucking insane volume that they were playing ..I was able to tell just by how I had to set my levels that these did/do in fact, handle (quite a bit) higher spls than my ps2 (haven't clipped this yet)setup. I had my HI-MD levels completely maxed out and was *barely* hitting midpoint on my levels. Still, when I got home and played it back, there was a very faint hint of clipping. I'm pretty certain, with the volume that show was, it would be very difficult to pull one that wouldn't.
Point was, that show was just a little past that point where my mics could handle it.
If Andy hadn't had an extra set of earplugs, I can safely say I would have walked out...it was that loud.

Yeah, I know the potential problems... I taped Ministry several times, have seen them what,every tour from 1996 to 2005?  And yeah, in my younger days I used to hug the stacks without earplugs.  It is why my ears constantly rung nowadays. Yeah... loud as fuck. Back to the problem at hand...  My most recent experience was at a small venue where the sounds was not horribly loud, but loud enough to distort somehow... No way it should have, it wasn't like they were using a national bands touring sound system.  It was very annoying.  I wonder if my 3-wire modded mics will work with the ST9100? (I have the CA-14s as well, but would be nice to know I could use my modded CMC-8 with it as well).

[nameloc01]

You already have the mics modded?

[Chaosu]

I have no mods... It does happen quite often, actuallly most of the time. There are really few recordings that are disortion free and they were: 1. quiet 2. I was over 100 meters (maybe 150) from stage. Moreover some quiet shows (like Alicia Keys one, posted in samples) are disorted at bass sounds.

I am located in eastern Europe so any upgrade will require double costs required in USA... : (

As far as I know battery is working properly (it drains energy).

What kind of upgrade do You suggest? I know most will say CA mics but will they really work better or I need higher class mics? Also, if I would have to choose new bb I will be looking for something smaller and not necessary a preamp, the one built in Edirols is enough.

One more question, is this possible that mic were flooded and that's why they are working like that? I bet no but I prefer to be sure, I belive they may get a little wet each time I record (because of my hairs).

[nameloc01]

Acutally that question was directed at Karl (he said his mic were modded)

You..are running 3wire AT mics on a 2wire battery box setup. While they will "work" this way, moderate to loud levels will cause clipping because the mics are not being powered correctly. AT manufactures those mics with mini-xlr connectors on them, because they are designed to be ran off of phantom power..SP takes the xlrs off and terminates the mics together into an male mini plug, which will then "work" with one of their BBs for low to moderate spls before they will clip. They can put the xlrs back on, this is what they call their "phantom power mod", which is funny, because its not really a "mod" at all, its just putting them back to "stock" condition. (stock except for the cables, AT manufactures them with much longer cables)

So, you can lower the sensitivity of the mics, or run them off of phantom power. But, keeping them as is, you will continue to get clipping here and there.

[nameloc01]

Here are the SPL handling specs for your sp-cmc4s:

2wire/ran off of "plug in" power from a recording deck  105db max

2wire ran of of standard 9v BB (like yours). 121-122 db max

2wire "low sens modded" 128-129 db max

3 wire ran with phantom adaptors and outside phantom power supply. 138 db max

3 wire ran off of AT phantom power modules 144 db max (stay away from these)

You can probably see where your problem is.

[kfrinkle]

Actually, the CMC-8s were 3-wire modded, and I have a 3 wire battery box to go with them.  Still get plenty of distortion on loud shows, even when levels are not close to clipping.

[nameloc01]

What I was getting at was are they "low-sens" modded..or are you referring to the "phantom power mod" meaning the mini xlrs being put back on ?

still weird in any case.

[kfrinkle]

What I was getting at was are they "low-sens" modded..or are you referring to the "phantom power mod" meaning the mini xlrs being put back on ?

still weird in any case.

low sens mod terminating in dual 1/8" males, no mini-xlrs....