Topic: recording in a living room

[jnorman34]

i've got to record a piano and flute duo in the pianist's living room (she just got a new 7'4" bosendorfer) - the room is about 25x12x8' with severla couches, so it is fairly dead sounding room.  would you guys individually mic each, like a pair of close cards on the piano and a single card on the flute?  or would you use a single nice room pair, and if so, would you use cards in ORTF or a spaced pair of omnis?  or would you use both setups and blend in post?  

also, would you pan the piano all the way across the soundstage and put the flute in the middle, or would you pan the piano just left and the flute just right?  

would you use an intimate room reverb, or a big hall reverb?

thanks.
jnorman
sunridge studios
salem, oregon

[sexymexi]

both...   i'd mic them both directly, then room mic it.. and mix it.  if you have the equip to do so, then go for it.  for the room mics i think spaced omni's would be cool..  but my best guess for piano mic'ing would be cards XY @115 or so, but the flute...  um not really sure..  i guess a single would work, but might also be cool to do spaced cards, one near the performers mouth, and then down the flute a bit.  good luck, i know i have seen some piano mic'ng pics, i'll see if i can find them, and post.

matt

[jpschust]

well what equipment do you have at your disposal- i can tell you from there.

[jnorman34]

hi - i have pairs of schoeps cmc64s, akg c480s, DPA 4061s (omnis), and AT4051s all running through millennia media HV-3D (8 channels),  into 24-bit roland VS1880.

[jpschust]

sorry i gotta get some more info- what kind of piano? grand? baby? upright?

[jnorman34]

grand piano - 7'4" bosendorfer.

[jpschust]

close mic the flute, use something that carries highs really nicely, for the piano, lid open, one mic over the strings, two over the hammers (the dpas might be really nice here).  two room mics to pick up ambient mixing.  dump it all to the vs1880 and then worry about mixing in a post mix, dont try to do this one on the fly.  also, i assume it is this way, but you want the piano projecting longways, not towards the short wall.  

[BobW]

My novice thoughts:

dpa4061 on the flute, in tight or even contact mount (but that gives extra key-noise, if you want that)

For the piano, I'd try x-y at the low end of the harp and something to fill the highend, perhaps another dpa4061, both 1-2 feet from the strings(got boom?).

get the room for natural ambience

There are a bunch of published grand pianner mic'ing techniques on the web. Try Mix magazine's site to start.

Let me know what you deceide to use and how it works out.

[jnorman34]

well - i tried a couple of setups yesterday.  first i tried an ORTF pair of schoeps out in the room, plus a single DPA 4061 on the flute and a single 4061 on the piano.  then i tried the two 4061s as a spaced pair out in the room, plus a single cmc64 on flute and a spaced pair of akg c480s on the piano.

out of all those potential mixing combinations, so far the best overall sound comes from the pair of spaced DPA 4061s out in the room.  it almost works all by itself.  i will spend the rest of today fooling around with more possibilities, such as mixing the ORTF pair with the spaced pair, or slightly supporting the DPA pair with a bit of the stereo piano and the close flute mic, putting reverb on just the room pair and none on the close mics (and vice versa), fooling with the phase on the close piano mics, using the close setup of the 4061s supported by a bit of the ORTF pair, etc, etc.  

all in all, the room didnt suck as much as i expected,  it certainly is not a good space for this type of recording, but it could have been much worse.  thanks for your help.

[jpschust]

id really suggest using at least 3 mics on the piano- you can get a much richer fuller sound from it that way.  what pres are you using by the way?

[jnorman34]

millennia media HV-3D (8 channels).  i am a little wary of adding a third piano mic due to the increase in potential phase issues - the piano is already present in all 5 of the mics - but it cant hurt to throw it up there and see what happens.    

[jpschust]

if you dont like it in the third mic then just pull it off the mix entirely on your DAW