Topic: Busman UA5 + iRiver H120 vs Fostex FR2LE

[mark_ivan]

Too slow on the trigger making offers and seem to be missing the good deals  (D50 package, FR2LE, and JB3 recently).

Now looking at buying a UA5 but it needs to be digi and Busman modded ($), and potentially an iRiver H120 that a kind soul is offering to me for purchase on this board.

The question is, this combo is getting close to the price of a used FR2LE ($350 - $400).

I am familiar with the sound of the FR2LE, but not the other set up.

Anyone familiar with the sound quality of both setups care to offer some sage advice on which sounds 'better'?

Will be getting BSC1 mic kit in any event (sound of which seems to be generally liked here).

[sunjan]

AFAIR, there are Oade/Busman mods of FR-2LE too, if you can afford it.
And it's 24bit, if that tips over the decision for you. Then again, you could pair up the UA-5 with an MTII and get similar specs.

Dimensions:
UA-5: 218(W) x 137(D) x 46.5(H) mm (and battery, interconnects and H120 on top of that)
FR-2LE: 206(W) x 132(D) x 57(H) mm

Given an equal budget,  I guess it boils down to if the sound quality of a modded UA-5 outweighs the 24bit advantage and convenience of a stock FR-2LE. Can't say really, I never got around to try one myself.

[mark_ivan]

The 24 bit thing is a good point, although I've read that there would be other limiting factors in the recording chain (mic noise, internal noise of pre) that would mitigate any benefit over 16 bit, dunno.

Also the size is more compact with the FR2LE, and the playback quality on the Fostex is not super through the headphones, I imagine an iRiver would be better. Although using Senn H580s the Fostex is nowhere near as 'noisy' as I had expected from other reviews.

Also, it appears that MANY of the seasoned users here (posting wise anyway) seem quite happy with the UA5/H116(or variations) combination.

Still, would like to hear if anyone has familiarity with an FR2LE and any of the UA5/recorder combinations, and could comment on differences in sound quality.

[willndmb]

i have run a BM2p+ ua5 and stock fr2le
i like them both and can not hear a difference that makes me like one over the other
so bottom line to me is the fr2le is better based on...
battery is internal
all in one
smaller bag (not that the fr2le is much smaller but not needing room for a external battery, the recorder, interconnect)
24 bit in your case (i had a mt so i was 24 bit anyway)

the only plus side to a ua5 (imo for me) is on the fly matrix - which i never did, but you can't with the fr2le

[Brian Skalinder]

I have substantial experience with Oade Warm- and Transparent-modded UA5s.  But I don't have any direct FR2LE experience...yet.  However, most of the recordings I've heard sound mighty fine, and if they haven't I've chalked it up to cruddy sounding room, mic placement, etc., not the recorder itself.  Nonetheless, I thought I'd chime in.

I think unless one intends to record unamplified sources requiring very high, very clean gain (in which case I might not go with either of the two options), it won't make a huge difference whether you run UA5 > recorder or FR2LE.  The mics will play a far larger role in the overall sound.  I really, really love the Oade Warm- and Transparent-PLUS modded UA5s.  Simply stunning sound for the price, I think.  Though, for my money, a little extra cash for the FR2LE would still sound good and make life easier:  less stuff to carry around, fewer batteries to charge, fewer interconnects to sweat, more leeway in setting levels conservatively since running "24-bit", etc.

[rsimms3]

In terms of availability on the secondary market, there have been a slew of UA-5s around lately and I just saw a Busman modded UA-5 on eBay this morning.  Not sure what the Busman is going for these days as I haven't kept up with prices since I have one.  The one on eBay is $199.  Someone has a unmodded one in the YS for $100, I think the Busman mod is $160 to do it all, but don't quote me on that.  I really like the UA-5 despite needing the external battery and interconnects.  I have used it with an IRiver and a MTII.  Great box that is very dependable.  I also use the UA-5 to transfer my records using it for an ADC.  I have never used the FR3LE so I am really of little help in this thread.

[page]

Though, for my money, a little extra cash for the FR2LE would still sound good and make life easier:  less stuff to carry around, fewer batteries to charge, fewer interconnects to sweat, more leeway in setting levels conservatively since running "24-bit", etc.

ditto to what Will said as well, I've run the ua5/120 combo and now have a fr2le. While my ua5 wasn't modded, Brian and Will said what my experience in the field was:

less cash on hand = ua5 combo
less hassle during recording = fr2le

[mark_ivan]

Wow, this is great input.

Some of the other considerations I have been making are:

- no digital in on the FR2LE so fewer opportunities to experiment
(there is a TI A/D evaluation module that sounds interesting)

- playback on the FR2LE itself is ok, but not great. The D50 I had borrowed for a bit had AMAZING playback sound, but overall, while playing back through a full audio system, I liked the FR2LE (borrowed as well) better than the D50, more open and dynamic?

- not sure if you can load sound files from the computer to the Fostex, tried with Mp3, no joy.

Brian mentioned above that if unamplified sources are going to be common and low noise is an issue (they will be and it is) that you would not recommend either.

What would be a recommended alternative then??

[Brian Skalinder]

What would be a recommended alternative then??

I think it depends in part on the unamplified source.  Some choirs, for example, can get quite loud and a quality preamp and/or ADC and/or recorder combo may work just fine.  Nature sounds, on the other hand, can be quite soft and may require more clean gain than a lower end or all-in-one device may provide.

What unamplified sources do you intend to record?  What source material will make up the majority of what you plan to record?  Answers to these questions may help TSers offer specific recommendations.

FWIW, I've been quite happy in the past using my Oade Warm and Transparent-PLUS MOD UA5s for unamplified choral recording.  But they were nearly maxed out on gain (and still clean / low noise!).  For nature sounds requiring even more gain, I don't think they would  have enough gain, but I've never recorded those types of sources with those units, so I can't say for certain.  (The Oade MODs offering  high gain for nature recordists and the like may provide sufficient gain, but I don't know for certain since I've never used them.)

At any rate, for GOBS of clean gain at a reasonable price, I think a purpose-built, professional or pro-sumer preamp (and/or ADC) would be best.  One of our members, digifish_music, does a fair amount of nature-type recording requiring high gain.  He offered some thoughts in this thread:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,118575.0.html

Depending on what you plan to record, the suggestion by digifish_music may work well:  mics > Sound Devices MixPre > R-09HR.  The MixPre is a fairly inexpensive preamp that will provide lots of clean gain.  Personally, I think I'd prefer an FR2LE as a recorder over the R-09HR -- if my budget allowed -- but that's because I'm fonder of slightly larger, more robust gear / connections.  Anyway...hope that helps.

[setboy]

I have substantial experience with Oade Warm- and Transparent-modded UA5s.  But I don't have any direct FR2LE experience...yet.  However, most of the recordings I've heard sound mighty fine, and if they haven't I've chalked it up to cruddy sounding room, mic placement, etc., not the recorder itself.  Nonetheless, I thought I'd chime in.

I think unless one intends to record unamplified sources requiring very high, very clean gain (in which case I might not go with either of the two options), it won't make a huge difference whether you run UA5 > recorder or FR2LE.  The mics will play a far larger role in the overall sound.  I really, really love the Oade Warm- and Transparent-PLUS modded UA5s.  Simply stunning sound for the price, I think.  Though, for my money, a little extra cash for the FR2LE would still sound good and make life easier:  less stuff to carry around, fewer batteries to charge, fewer interconnects to sweat, more leeway in setting levels conservatively since running "24-bit", etc.

The FR2LE does a pretty good job on unamplified music too. I'm sure it culd be better, but it's still nice.

[mark_ivan]

Have made 'half' the commitment with the purchase of a Busman BSC1 mic kit.

Returned the D50 within the 30 day return time to the Sony Store today (very sad).

Still have a FR2LE for another week or so.

My recording in the next little while will likely focus on Tabla, since I am taking classes and the school puts on and host concerts with tabla and/or harmonium and sitar, usually intimate and unamplified.

But would also be recording anything and everything that interests me, birds in the morning, the neighbourhood cat conversing with me, gf's 'non-existent' snoring etc.

Could do some amplified live music recording eventually too.

I have been keeping an eye out here and on Ebay for a Wendt X2 (aside from the ones currently on Ebay that look like they have been used as wheel blocks in a busy garage).

Would an X2 make sense to pair with an FR2LE, or are there too many redundancies (balanced XLR on both, phantom on both)?

Also becoming interested in a Texas Instrument A/D evaluation module that Sunflute was telling me about, for $149 sounds like it could be a deal.

Anyway, are there better all-in-one choices or combinations for under a grand?

Cheers,
Mark

[willndmb]

i personally opwuld just go direct into  the fr2le
for that matter you can find lots of bm mod fr2le sample around with his mics
chris also told me he thought the fr2le mod was a better sounding mod then the ua5

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

I own a stock UA5 (digi mod) and the FR2LE.

The UA5 sits in the corner. I'm probably going to put it in the YS this week. Not worth having it around.

The FR2LE is a dream compared to the UA5. It is very nice to have an all in one box AND most importantly since it's 24 bit you don't have to hover over the levels. I set my levels between -12 and -6 at the beginning of the show...and that's it. A lot more time to enjoy the show.