Topic: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)

[Organfreak]

I am really glad to see Zoom does something with the remarks adressed by customers/tapers from this site. I did the update, wondering if it is really audible? Playback sound seems slightly smoother, but that may only be present in my ears  .

[voltronic]

I am really glad to see Zoom does something with the remarks adressed by customers/tapers from this site. I did the update, wondering if it is really audible? Playback sound seems slightly smoother, but that may only be present in my ears  .

The rising low-frequency noise was well below audibility to start with. I suppose if you recorded something in 32-bit float that was extremely quiet and then boosted the levels by 50 dB or so in post you might notice it, but that's an unlikely scenario.

Still, it was a clear problem and I'm glad it could be fixed by adjusting a digital filter, and wasn't some sort of hardware problem.

[voodoostrat]

Question - I bought one last week. I’ve been trying to dial it in for the last few days. This morning I noticed that on track 5 & 6 (set to line) that the knob on #5 was controlling both 5 & 6. I can’t figure how to have adjustments to the separate channels.  I have linked those 2 channels to stereo. I know it’s probably something simple but I can’t figure it out.

Thanks!

[voltronic]

Question - I bought one last week. I’ve been trying to dial it in for the last few days. This morning I noticed that on track 5 & 6 (set to line) that the knob on #5 was controlling both 5 & 6. I can’t figure how to have adjustments to the separate channels.  I have linked those 2 channels to stereo. I know it’s probably something simple but I can’t figure it out.

Thanks!

MENU > INPUT > TRIM LINK

See the manual, pg, 101.

[dallman]

MENU > INPUT > TRIM LINK

See the manual, pg, 101.

Your answer got me thinking, and I am away from my decks and rusty with my knowledge right now, but if the knobs on the F6 are not gain, but fader, and gain is set automatically, does having those faders not balanced with each other affect the actual recorded tracks? On the one hand no, nor does it matter because you can balance in post, but does it affect the actual recorded gain levels used by the recorder if the faders are not balanced?

I know we tend to still think of those knobs as affecting gain, but that is not the case even if it feels like it does.

[voltronic]

MENU > INPUT > TRIM LINK

See the manual, pg, 101.

Your answer got me thinking, and I am away from my decks and rusty with my knowledge right now, but if the knobs on the F6 are not gain, but fader, and gain is set automatically, does having those faders not balanced with each other affect the actual recorded tracks? On the one hand no, nor does it matter because you can balance in post, but does it affect the actual recorded gain levels used by the recorder if the faders are not balanced?

I know we tend to still think of those knobs as affecting gain, but that is not the case even if it feels like it does.

Even though gain may be fixed, recording levels are not. Depending on your recording mode (linear vs. float), those knobs could be adjusting individual channel input trims (post-ADC), the individual ISO track recorded levels sent to the SD card, or acting as faders for the stereo downmix. (I'm differentiating between "recorded levels" and "faders" here, because faders are the last adjustment you make before going out to your main mix.)

Check out the block diagrams in the manual on pp. 193-198. I always use 32-bit float mode, and I have my knobs set to adjust "Rec Level" as described on pg. 194. Keeping them at the default "Reference Level" is useless to me, because I never use the stereo downmix, and this way at least I could adjust ISO track levels if I wanted to. Of course, in 32-bit float mode with the multi-ADC setup this recorder uses, adjusting levels isn't really necessary, but I like to watch the meters dance. 

So, what all of that means is that you will absolutely be recording different levels on your individual channels if your individual track knobs are set differently. That would be true no matter what mode the recorder is set up in. This is why I have my input trims all linked in pairs.

[Gutbucket]

Echoing what voltronic posted above.. You can use the menu to set the channel knobs to perform various functions, and you can adjust recording trim in various ways either with or without using those knobs. 

I use an F8 rather than F6, other than lacking 32bit float recording capability its usage is very similar.  As a practical way of achieving the functionality I desire this is what I do:

Set it up so that while recording the individual channel knobs act as faders controlling the stereo-mix/monitor-output.  I do that simply as a way of disabling the channel knobs from affecting recording trim since the knobs are very susceptible to accidental mis-adjustment.  Instead I adjust recording trim via the menu knob by selecting the channel on the display.  Doing that requires a press of the menu knob to select/deselect each channel or linked group of channels, eliminating the potential for accidental adjustment. 

Upon achieving an appropriate trim balance between the first stereo pair of channels I link their trims (MENU > INPUT > TRIM LINK) so that they can be further adjusted as necessary in unison without changing the balance between them.  I then proceed to do the same for each additional stereo pair. 

At that point I either leave it like that, with the ability to quickly select and adjust any pair and make a trim adjustment separate from the others, or I go (MENU > INPUT > TRIM LINK) and link all of the channels together so that I can adjust them simultaneously with a single knob-turn while retaining relative balance.

[Gutbucket]

More detail than you need-
I never use the channel knobs, and would be happiest if they weren't even there.  I do use the recorder for playback, and have it set so that in playback mode those knobs do nothing, adjusting fader level to the mix using the menu knob in the same way as adjusting trim while recording. 

The only significance of the channel knobs for me is their control over the stereo-mix while recording. I don't record the stereo mix, so that is only relevant for me in two ways:
1) if I am patching out to someone while recording.
2) when playing back, the initial stereo-mix fader balance carries over from whatever it was set at while recording.

The second is annoying because those knobs end up being set randomly instead of meaningfully.  If the fader levels were locked as well during recording this would not be an issue.

As it is I'd rather it revert to a flat zero'ed-out fader balance across all channels prior to the initial playback of the recorded fileset, or a specific saved fader position that doesn't change with each recording.  I do like that it automatically saves and recalls fader positions with each subsequent playback however, as that reflects any playback adjustments I make specific to the recording.

[dallman]

Even though gain may be fixed, recording levels are not. Depending on your recording mode (linear vs. float), those knobs could be adjusting individual channel input trims (post-ADC), the individual ISO track recorded levels sent to the SD card, or acting as faders for the stereo downmix. (I'm differentiating between "recorded levels" and "faders" here, because faders are the last adjustment you make before going out to your main mix.)

Check out the block diagrams in the manual on pp. 193-198. I always use 32-bit float mode, and I have my knobs set to adjust "Rec Level" as described on pg. 194. Keeping them at the default "Reference Level" is useless to me, because I never use the stereo downmix, and this way at least I could adjust ISO track levels if I wanted to. Of course, in 32-bit float mode with the multi-ADC setup this recorder uses, adjusting levels isn't really necessary, but I like to watch the meters dance. 

So, what all of that means is that you will absolutely be recording different levels on your individual channels if your individual track knobs are set differently. That would be true no matter what mode the recorder is set up in. This is why I have my input trims all linked in pairs.

Great information from both you and Gutbucket. Really good and informative which I was hoping could be supplied. I am in a different city right now than my F6, and cannot recall if I knew that I could make the changes noted above. I did read the manual as I always really enjoy the discoveries that come from reading the manual, but I do not remember and won't know until I return home. I'm really curious to see how my settings are done and if I was unaware, this is even better, but if I just forgot (as happens more and more now that I am about to turn 66), this still is a great refresher. The one benefit to a bad memory is the constant re-discovery of exciting known and forgotten facts.

[Gutbucket]

Truth!  Thank goodness for the memory recall of friends!

[voltronic]

Truth!  Thank goodness for the memory recall of friends!

+1 to that.

Gut - I know it doesn't have enough channels for your use, but the F6 knobs are quite stiff, and do not move unless you really want them to. I actually never checked to see if the hold function locks them or not. Perhaps Zoom will eventually come out with a revision to the F8 that has knobs with more resistance.

[voodoostrat]

Question - I bought one last week. I’ve been trying to dial it in for the last few days. This morning I noticed that on track 5 & 6 (set to line) that the knob on #5 was controlling both 5 & 6. I can’t figure how to have adjustments to the separate channels.  I have linked those 2 channels to stereo. I know it’s probably something simple but I can’t figure it out.

Thanks!

MENU > INPUT > TRIM LINK

See the manual, pg, 101.

Thanks, Volt

So while attempting to figure out why the knobs were not gain controls I ended up screwing up any successful settings that I had accomplished. Prior to messing things up I actually had the deck producing sets of paired files ... Tracks 1&2 (48v) and tracks 5&6 (Line in). Well that all went away, it took me a couple of days to retrace the steps I took to get the files that say "Take". That was a major relief for me. I documented all the steps I took because apparently my brain fails to remember anything anymore. The last couple of days I started messing with the 32 Float and 32/24 settings. I am still confused which way to go on the 24/32 when it offers 'Linear or Float', so far I have stuck to Float. I will keep messing with gain settings for the 48v channels. I have Los Lobos this coming Friday, I am planning to run the Beyers on the Zoom as well as a pair of AT 853s. I will run my Schoeps via my old rig MK4's > Tinybox > one of my Sonys, at least for peace of mind.

Also thanks to the rest of you for chiming in on my question.   

[Gutbucket]

Gut - I know it doesn't have enough channels for your use, but the F6 knobs are quite stiff, and do not move unless you really want them to. I actually never checked to see if the hold function locks them or not. Perhaps Zoom will eventually come out with a revision to the F8 that has knobs with more resistance.

Perhaps stiffer knobs were implemented on the F6 based on feedback from F8 users. 

What might work for me is to set the hold-function to lock only the channel knobs (I don't otherwise use hold on this recorder because its a key-combo rather than a dedicated hardware hold-switch), and switch it on after confirming that all fader knobs are set to unity, although I may need to go through that routine at the start of each recording.

[voltronic]

OK, here are my test results from RMAA with both the 1.50 and 1.70 firmware.

- RMAA generated a 32-bit FP / 192 kHz test file
- Connected MOTU M2 line out to F6 channels 1&2 with balanced TRS>XLR patch cables
- M2 output level set to max
- Played test file in Foobar while recording on F6 at 32-bit float / 192 kHz
- Recorded file from F6 transferred to PC and analyzed in RMAA to generate report
- These tests were NOT done in the same sitting, but conditions were identical


When looking at the Frequency Response data, make sure you scroll down to compare the 20 Hz - 20 kHz numbers in both documents, and not just the 40 Hz - 15 kHz numbers.

I find it curious that the noise floor in the new firmware is a bit higher, when performance is otherwise improved in other areas, especially the LF noise. I suppose there are always tradeoffs when choosing filters.
PDF files are below.

F6 1.50
F6 1.70

Bumping this post for the people in the market for a new deck. The F6 can now truly be considered a professional recorder with the latest firmware, and IMHO it represents a much better value than the SD MixPre-II recorders. The only thing the MPII's have the advantage in is accepting a hotter input level, which in practice will not be an issue unless you are feeding it VERY hot line levels or recording very loud sources with extremely sensitive mics.

You won't be disappointed with one of these.

[Chris K]

Bumping this post for the people in the market for a new deck. The F6 can now truly be considered a professional recorder with the latest firmware, and IMHO it represents a much better value than the SD MixPre-II recorders. The only thing the MPII's have the advantage in is accepting a hotter input level, which in practice will not be an issue unless you are feeding it VERY hot line levels or recording very loud sources with extremely sensitive mics.

You won't be disappointed with one of these.

So I've been looking at this deck as an upgrade to a tascam 70D...what would be the benefits in favor for the F6 over the 70D that would justify the cost? I only require max 4 channels max at a top end of 24/48 as a field recorder. Thanks. Chris K.