Topic: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6

[willndmb]

Got my Anker 20100 PowerCore+ today. I followed the link from the Sound Devices website to the Anker website and from there followed a link to their Amazon store. On Amazon they have "Customers who bought this item also bought" which has an Anker usb-c to usb-c PowerLine+ cable. Link to Anker's website for that cable can be seen here: https://www.anker.com/products/A8187091
I purchased that cable as well and it powers the MixPre3 just fine with the powercore battery; the connection is snug and firm and the quality of the cable is excellent (nylon braided)!
Here is a pic of it on my MixPre3 to show how far out it sticks:

thats exactly what I was thinking in my past post

[justink]

Got my Anker 20100 PowerCore+ today. I followed the link from the Sound Devices website to the Anker website and from there followed a link to their Amazon store. On Amazon they have "Customers who bought this item also bought" which has an Anker usb-c to usb-c PowerLine+ cable. Link to Anker's website for that cable can be seen here: https://www.anker.com/products/A8187091
I purchased that cable as well and it powers the MixPre3 just fine with the powercore battery; the connection is snug and firm and the quality of the cable is excellent (nylon braided)!
Here is a pic of it on my MixPre3 to show how far out it sticks:

do you get the green (full) battery light?

[jbell]

Using wave agent to combine mono files to stereo is it better to use manual or batch??   

[Todd R]

I was out of town traveling last week and haven't had time to post about my experience using the Mixpre-6 the first time. Unfortunately, I had a pretty big failure, which ties back to design limitations (in my view) of the Mixpre.  I have been able to do testing and am fairly sure of the problem.

Cut to the chase:  the problem is that if you use an SD card that doesn't work (presumably not fast enough, though in my case supposedly Class 10), you can get short dropouts on the recording when the card can't keep up.  Pretty typical behavior for SD card recorders.  The bigger issue is that the dropouts you get on the SD recording also occur on the line output and the headphone output.  That is, it appears that the analog outputs -- line out and headphone out -- are somehow configured within the Mixpre to be post SD-card, such that every single dropout you get on your internal recording will be transmitted to the analog outputs.  Thus, you cannot use an external recorder attached to the line output of the Mixpre as a back-up recorder -- any problems/dropouts you get on the internal recording due to a slow/corrupted/fragmented/failing SD card will occur on the Mixpre analog outputs and your back-up recording will be just as corrupt as your internal recording.

I hate to have to come out of the gate with negative impressions.  I have owned the Sound Devices MP-2, 722, 702, and USBPre 2 and have always found Sound Devices to make rock solid gear.  I have done quite a bit of testing now and have confirmed that dropouts occurring on the internal Mixpre recording lead to dropouts at the exact point on the line output and headphone output.  I have only had this happen with one of my SD cards (a Sony branded card) and never with any other SD card, and I haven't had any dropouts except with this Sony card.  So the dropouts on the analog outputs are confirmed, though it is only my guess that the original dropouts are occurring due to a slow SD card.  Sure seems like it though.

I'm pretty bummed about this.  I sold my USBPre 2 to fund the Mixpre-6.  My USBPre 2 was rock solid as was the Grace Design Lunatec V3 I had before it.  With both of those preamps, I could use the multiple outputs available to record to 2 devices, such that I had a backup recorder at all times.  (Really, I've been using backup recorders or backup recording systems going back to the unreliable portable DAT days.)  In these cases, the mic preamp could be a common point of failure such that having 2 recorders doesn't really help.  But the USBPre 2 and Lunatec V3 were so rock solid that as long as my batteries were good, the preamps were never a concern. 

Conversely, I think SD cards are notoriously unreliable.  Forgetting finding a fast enough and reliable enough card to begin with, even a high-speed, high-quality card can fail at some point or can get corrupted or fragmented such that it has a blip and you get a dropout.  With the Mixpre-6 designed as it is, you cannot simply use a second recorder attached to the line output as a backup.  You will need to have a completely separate recording system.  I guess for my purposes, instead of using a Sony M10 as a backup recorder to the Mixpre-6, I will use my Zoom H4n Pro to record my second set of mics and will send the output of the H4n to the Mixpre-6 in case I want to mix those mics with my primary pair on the Mixpre.  Unfortunately, in order to have a back up for the rare time of recording failure, I will now be using the more noisy Zoom H4n preamps rather than the much cleaner Kashmir preamps of the Mixpre-6.

BTW, if you've read this far, this happened with my maiden voyage of the Mixpre-6. I had just gotten the UPS delivery of the Mixpre-6 moments before I went to record Trey Anastasio Band.  I took enough time to insure that my batteries would power the MP-6, but then took off for the show with no time for additional testing or understanding how to run the MP-6.  I was able to set it up no problem, and ran my Sony M10 as a backup recorder just in case.  For the opening band (Vulfpeck) I ran a no-name SD card and everything was fine.  For Trey, I used a Sony-branded SD card which led to the dropouts I mentioned on both the internal SD recording and the external M10 recording.  I then tested at home to confirm.

Ultimately for my purposes, I think the Mixpre-6 will be a great piece of gear and will probably almost always provide great results, in large part since I think it is an excellent sounding piece of gear.  But unless I run some kind of backup using my Zoom H4n, I probably will never trust that I got a recording until I get home and can verify.  This is something I never worried about with my USBPre 2 or 722, which does bum me out quite a bit.

[GDfan]

Got my Anker 20100 PowerCore+ today. I followed the link from the Sound Devices website to the Anker website and from there followed a link to their Amazon store. On Amazon they have "Customers who bought this item also bought" which has an Anker usb-c to usb-c PowerLine+ cable. Link to Anker's website for that cable can be seen here: https://www.anker.com/products/A8187091
I purchased that cable as well and it powers the MixPre3 just fine with the powercore battery; the connection is snug and firm and the quality of the cable is excellent (nylon braided)!
Here is a pic of it on my MixPre3 to show how far out it sticks:

do you get the green (full) battery light?

Yes

[johnw]

...Ultimately for my purposes, I think the Mixpre-6 will be a great piece of gear and will probably almost always provide great results, in large part since I think it is an excellent sounding piece of gear.  But unless I run some kind of backup using my Zoom H4n, I probably will never trust that I got a recording until I get home and can verify.  This is something I never worried about with my USBPre 2 or 722, which does bum me out quite a bit.

Thanks for sharing your experience. That really stinks. Did you send this to Sound Devices?

Can you let us know exactly which Sony card? Any chance it could be counterfeit? Was it cleanly formatted in the MP6? Any problems with the card in the past? What settings were you using (i.e 24/96, 2 channel, mix on, aux off, bluetooth off)?

Maybe Sound Devices could create some type of internal card testing program that could be run from the MixPre6. Or if they'd offer higher capacity cards, I wouldn't mind paying the premium for the Sound Devices ones. But 32GB is pretty skimpy these days.

[mitchellm]

Ultimately for my purposes, I think the Mixpre-6 will be a great piece of gear and will probably almost always provide great results, in large part since I think it is an excellent sounding piece of gear.  But unless I run some kind of backup using my Zoom H4n, I probably will never trust that I got a recording until I get home and can verify.  This is something I never worried about with my USBPre 2 or 722, which does bum me out quite a bit.

As the previous person noted it's really important to know if you formatted the card directly in the MixPre-6. I've worked with two different cards without any problems so far. Audio is not as tricky or intensive as capturing video so this seems very strange behavior. (But not very strange if not formatted in the MixPre directly.)

[aaronji]

^^^^ Also, did you update the firmware?  If not, I wonder if that helps?

[Todd R]

All cards formatted in the Mixpre.  I've tested all of my SD cards for good measure and all work fine except the Sony card.  I'll be ordering a Sandisk extreme pro soon for use in the Mixpre-6, these were the cards I had on hand.

The Sony card is supposedly Class 10 and it clearly looks like a crappy card.  I'm sure a good card that has been thoroughly tested should do the trick.  But I still find it to be very troubling that the Mixpre-6 was designed in such a way that a bad/slow/corrupted SD card will not only take out the internal recording, but will also bring down the analog outputs.

[Todd R]

^^^^ Also, did you update the firmware?  If not, I wonder if that helps?

I specifically tested with the original firmware and then again with the updated firmware.  Both firmware revisions exhibit the exact same behavior.

[johnw]

But I still find it to be very troubling that the Mixpre-6 was designed in such a way that a bad/slow/corrupted SD card will not only take out the internal recording, but will also bring down the analog outputs.

Yeah that's a let down for sure. But Sound Devices categorizes this as a recorder and not a mixer or mixer with integrated recorder, so I guess it makes sense that the output comes after the recorder in the signal path. I wonder if it causes a drop out over USB recording as well? Any way of testing that with the Sony card?

[noahbickart]

^^^^^^^

The above demonstrates that the analogue outputs have gone through AD > DA conversions. I suspect that this was done in order to cut costs.

While I'm sorry that you had trouble, and I know how much it sucks to lose a show, I don't really see how this is SD's fault, given that the sony card is not one they recommend.

Use one of their recommended cards and things should work as they ought to.

[Todd R]

I don't really see how this is SD's fault.

Use one of their recommended cards and things should work as they ought to.

Different expectations I guess.  I am not complaining about dropouts on an untested, non-recommended card that I used in a rush.  I totally expected that it might happen, which is why I ran a backup recorder.  But I do not expect that a bad SD card should affect the analog outputs.

I can use one of their recommended cards, and may never have another problem.  But I find it to be pretty poor design to let a bad SD card also affect your analog outputs.  Even recommended cards and even cards that have worked perfectly on countless occasions can fail.  Letting that also bring down your analog outputs means you can't use the analog outs for a back up recording.  It may not be their fault I used a non-recommended card but it is lousy design practice in my view to allow that to corrupt your analog outputs.

As a hobbyist concert recordist, sure whatever it doesn't matter that much.  But if I were a film maker with a lot on the line, I would simply not use the Mixpre series, I'd stick with the 788 or 744t.

As I said, I'm a huge fan of Sound Devices, they're right up there with Grace Design for well built, well designed gear.  But this is a design failure in my book.  Even the best SD cards can fail, including the Sound Devices branded card.  It simply should not affect the analog outputs in well-designed, well-implemented gear.  Maybe this is the limitation imposed by Sound Devices deciding to enter a lower price-point market, but it doesn't meet the high expectations I have for Sound Devices.

[johnw]

But if I were a film maker with a lot on the line, I would simply not use the Mixpre series, I'd stick with the 788 or 744t.

As I said, I'm a huge fan of Sound Devices, they're right up there with Grace Design for well built, well designed gear. But this is a design failure in my book.  Even the best SD cards can fail, including the Sound Devices branded card.  It simply should not affect the analog outputs in well-designed, well-implemented gear.  Maybe this is the limitation imposed by Sound Devices deciding to enter a lower price-point market, but it doesn't meet the high expectations I have for Sound Devices.

Agreed 100%. Please let Sound Devices know your experience if you haven't already. Perhaps there is a workaround they can offer on the chance that it is somehow software related.

[nolamule]

I have a few questions...

Is your MP setup in "Custom" mode?
If so, did you have the "Record" mode set to "Advance"?
If so, did you have the channel routed out of the left or right stereo out?
What did you route out of the stereo out? Mix or Channels?
Did you route the signal pre (green) or post (blue) fade?

Thanks for the additional info. 

Cut to the chase:  the problem is that if you use an SD card that doesn't work (presumably not fast enough, though in my case supposedly Class 10), you can get short dropouts on the recording when the card can't keep up.  Pretty typical behavior for SD card recorders.  The bigger issue is that the dropouts you get on the SD recording also occur on the line output and the headphone output.  That is, it appears that the analog outputs -- line out and headphone out -- are somehow configured within the Mixpre to be post SD-card, such that every single dropout you get on your internal recording will be transmitted to the analog outputs.  Thus, you cannot use an external recorder attached to the line output of the Mixpre as a back-up recorder -- any problems/dropouts you get on the internal recording due to a slow/corrupted/fragmented/failing SD card will occur on the Mixpre analog outputs and your back-up recording will be just as corrupt as your internal recording.