Topic: playback systems...

[ben]

what yall listen to your recordings back on?  Just curious...

Sony boomboxes?

Ben

[jpschust]

Bose surround (not those crappy cubes. but the big boys 601's)  Run digi out of my machine into my Pioneer receiver.

[Bri]

Great question!

Studio:
CDRW2000->

Apogee DA1000e->

Rane SM82a

Anchor ANX-1000

or
with phones...



Large System
Panasonic RP-91->DA1000->Denon 5600->Klipsch KLF 20's


Also...
Sony CPX-450 (400 disc Box)
->
Ramsey FM25FM transmitter


I use the FM transmitter so  can listen to the 4oo disc changer in all the radios in the house! Like in the shower, kitchen TV, Alarm Clocks, walkmans and boomboxes. I can tune it in in my car for about 2 miles! Wonder what the neighbors (and the FCC) think!

Great post...
Bri

[jpschust]

Bri,

Did you build your FM25 yourself or have it built for you?  What kind of cost is associated with that...

Jonny

[CrazyED]

I've got the Klipsch Legend Series KLF-20's as well.  Talk about a great pair of speakers.  Only powering them with a Pioneer reciever right now but hopefully going to get an amp of some sorts in the near future.

[Bri]

I built the Ramsey power supply (only 120 or so solder poins or so) You can have them pre built also. The audio quality is like mp3 and it's hard to find an open freq, but once you get it working, its the way to go. this is wher I got mine....

http://www.hobbytron.net/R-FM25.html

If I were to do it again, I'd have them build it for me, its only 65 bucks or so....

Bri

[Bri]

ben, what are you listening on?

Bri

[brad]

i have a yamaha natural sound receiver and love it.  also a tascam cdr4u, that for the $$ you cant beat it!   my speakers are kinda shitty, i have 2 technics 12" and 2 sony 12", and a JBL 12" sub that SLAMS! also, infinity rears that sound OK.  

i plug my P1 straight into my yamaha receiver and jam!

[ben]

I listeb back on:

Sony r500>lucid ada1000> Krell KAV-300i>magnepan 1.6qr's

I just got a pair of the magnepan mg10.1qr's to try out as well.  They are a bit smaller and may sound better in my smaller apartment.  The electrostatic panels sopund amazing but do require alot of placement issues and a very open room.   We'll see if i like these a bit better for my aplications.

I never really listen to cd's...but if i do i have a sony es cd player and run optical out to the lucid.  Works fine...and i dont have a need to drop $700 on a decent cd transport.

Over and out and under-
Ben

[Tim]

Ben,

I was wondering where you are buying your maggies from and what kind of prices you are seeing for them, especially the mg10.1qr's.

I'm a ways from being able to swing a nice playback system still (damn school!) but I'm trying to keep on top of some of my favorite gear. Thanks!

Tim

[ben]

I got my first pair of maggies, the mmgs, from magnepan direct.  They were 500 at the time...and i think they go for 550 now.  I then traded the mmg's for a pair of 1.6qr's at a high-fi store in ohio.   The 1.6qr's were 1400 i believe.   I just purchased the 10.1's from a high-fi store in california that had them up for auction after a trade-in.  

The 1.6qr's are much larger than the 10.1's...especially in width...the 1.6's are almost twice as wide.  The mg10's are made for smaller applications and are intended for use with a subwoofer (which will be interesting as i dont have one and have no intentions f purchasing one anytime soon)...the problem with maggies is they are SO FAST that you haveto have a ssub like a velodyne or sunfire to keep up with them...which are quite pricey...

ill report back.  

Ben

[twoodruff]

I use the B&W cdm 7se with an arcam amp. I use my HHb burner as my cd player which goes to my lucid d>a. I have found these speakers to be laid back and a good choice to listen to all the sorts of music I have. I ve thrown Mule, Sabbath, Bluegrass and Houser's Door Harp in there and have been amazed with the results. The goal now is to get another arcam and bi amp the speakers or to get a mcintosh tube amp and completely run my wife out of the house. Whats a taper to do?

[Rdalton88]

The posts about maggies & B&W's were the best so far......  Nice speakers.
Me?  I run the Martin Logan Scenarios from the NAD Amp & 18 bit CD player.  Took me awhile to afford it, but I'm in heaven now.  The Logans really do the B&K mics justice!
LOL!
Ron Dalton
p.s. - take off those headphones!  Let the world in!  

[Bri]

Ron,

Never heard the Logans, but I know they are rediculously priced! which CD Player?
Bri

[Rdalton88]

Bri - they can be expensive.  I, however bought them used on the Audiogon.com page.  The Scenarios are the least expensive of the Martin Logan line.  If you have never head these babies, I strongly suggest you take a ride over to your local Harvey store and check them out.  Electrostatic tech. is a bit finicky, but if driven correctly are one of the best speakers to own.
The CD player I use is the NAD 512.
Enjoy the Music!
 
Ron

[Bri]

is the placement of the speaker real crucial, or is it finding the right amp?

Bri

[ben]

Ron-

are you happy with the logans?  there are no retailers around here whom sell them so i havent ever had a chance to preview them...

i have heard from others that the cone drivers have a difficult time keeping up with the electrostatic panels...and cause some timing issues bewteen soundsources.  Have you experienced this?

Bri-

placement varies with speaker selection.  Some speakers are more forgiving than others.  electrostatic panels are bi-directional and the space between the back of the speakers and the wall is extremely important.  This is why maggies take such alarge room to really open up...especially at lower SPL levels.   I have mine installed 3 feet from the back wall and 2.5 feet from the side walls...with about a 1 inch toe-in.  This works for me the best...but has taken countless hours of experimenting.

The amp makes a big difference too...but in a bit different way.  Its just like taping gear...in that every compoent adds its own flava:)

Ben

[Bri]

hahahahah, thanks ben, not really up on the electrostatics! How low  does the electrostatic element go? Great thread.

cheers
bri

[Rdalton88]

Wow - this has gotten to be a nice thread.
 
Yeah - placement is def. crucial.  I have been playing w/ them for a few months now, and making sure your rear wall is 2' away from the back of your speakers or you must dampen the wall (i.e. sound absorbtion).
I have yet to hear that the cone doesn't keep up with the panels.  How is that even possible if they are both driven together?
As for the amp that drives these, I orig. used my Nak RE-10 and wasn't too happy w/ the sound.  I upgraded to the NAD C370 (@200W) and am just now getting used to it.  If I had the extra cash, I'd prolly look for something in the tube range, like the McCormacks or Blue Circle to add warmth.
Seriously, it took me 3 years + Phish being off tour to afford these panels, and I plan on owning them for years to come.
For me, living in a townhome doesn't afford me the opportunity to play music loud (except during daylight hrs.), but the clarity is there even at lower levels.  Thats the sign of a good playback system.
Whew....
 
Thanks
Ron

[Bri]

thanks for rthe followup! +K

Bri

[scervin]

Right now I currently run Denon 2802>Diva 4.1's.  I've owned B&W's, Polk, and Klipsch and theses are by far the best bang for the buck speaker you could get.  I a/b them in the local hifi store against the CDM7nt and they were near identical.  The Diva's are slightly more laid back, but have so much air in them it is amazing.  They use silk dome tweets which contribute to this.  The dealer was actually very impressed and when I told him they wer $700 shipped he crapped as they look, feel, and sound like like $2300 speakers.  You can't get them from the US dealer any longer as B&W has a "trade dress" suit against them.  I was very nervous when making this purchase as it was generated by internet hype.  I'll say they do sound very, very good for the money and have high WAF
    Before x-mas the plan is to get a full set of the new Rocket line for HT (my wife said if I spend that kind of money on speakers she better be able to enjoy them also) with a Marantz SR8000 and am looking into a new DAC to run the DA-20 through.  The Rockets are a little more forward with better imaging and soundstage reproduction. These are more in the playing field of the B&W N804's (altough I've heard you can compare them to the N803's, which I'll do at the neighbors place). Hopefully soon after this I'll have a B&K 7250 or Sherbourne 1500A amp and Anthem AVM-20 Pre.  This will be the time wher I stop and enjoy the music (and explain to everyone what the heck all those components are in the rack!)  I'll then work on the basement and put a tube>electrostat 2-channel system down there.  We all have to set goals
SC

[RRobar]

I'll attest Scott's Diva 4.1's do sound very very nice. Maybe someday I'll be able to have such items . Don't get me me wrong my wife is wonderful and fully supports my taping and music obsessions. But there are limits. I have a feeling that Scott's fun will end once the word children come into play . But then again Scott is ALL Talk   Just kidding
Rob

[phriendlyguy]

kids definately lower the volume around the house for sure.  thank God for headphones.

[Tim]

This thread is great.... what are some good places to shop for amps online? I'm thinking of throwing down some money after the new years on some nice speakers. I don't want to go too cheap on the amp, I figure used is the way to go. Thanks a lot guys!

Tim

[twoodruff]

audiogon.com

[Craig T]

Sony R300 DAT (coax to DAC)
Sony CD player (optical spdif to DAC)
Pioneer dv333 DVD player (24/96 output via coax to DAC)
CAL Sigma II (with 24/96 upgrade) tube DAC
Sonic Frontiers SFL-1 ("signature" upgrade) hybrid/tube preamp
B&K ST140 monoblock amps (ss)
Sunfire True Sub Jr.'s (stereo pair, on 18" stands)
Maggie MMG speakers
homegrown audio interconnects
audioquest Crystal+ speaker cable
Fujitsu S6110 laptop for 24bit playback

[TALL]

Vandersteen 2CE Signatures
Rogue Audio 66 magnum Preamp(tube)
Rogue Audio M120 Monoblocks(tube)
Homebrew CD Player(mid 90s Phillips transport with tubed output stage)
XLO Signature 2 interconnects
Audioquest Caldera speaker cable(biwire)
Custom made Sound Anchors rack

[Tim]

^^^^ BUMP ^^^^

just curious what the newcomers are using or if any of the older crew has gotten anything new?

[twoodruff]

i am using a pv-12 pre amp now instead of the arcam

[Craig T]

out:
Magneplanar MMG's
Sunfire True Sub Jr.'s
Homegrown Audio interconnects
AudioQuest speaker cable
Chinese 12ax7 tube in the CAL dac
Svetlana 12at7 tube in the SFL1

in:
ACI Sapphire monitors & Force sub (www.audioc.com)
SignalCable Analog2 interconnects, Sub cables, and double-run speaker cables (www.signal-cable.com)
NOS Mullard 12ax7 in the CAL dac (Upscale Audio)
NOS Mullard 12at7 in the SFL1 (Upscale Audio)

Sony R300 DAT (coax to DAC)
Sony CD player (optical spdif to DAC)
Pioneer dv333 DVD player (24/96 output via coax to DAC)
CAL Sigma II (with 24/96 upgrade) tube DAC
Sonic Frontiers SFL-1 ("signature" upgrade) hybrid/tube preamp
B&K ST140 monoblock amps (ss)
Sunfire True Sub Jr.'s (stereo pair, on 18" stands)
Maggie MMG speakers
homegrown audio interconnects
audioquest Crystal+ speaker cable
Fujitsu S6110 laptop for 24bit playback

[yemncsu]

Pioneer DV-563A(DVD-A/V;SACD) or Onkyo DX-C370(CD)>Onkyo TXDS-676

Polk Audio:
F: RT1000p
C:CS400i
R:FX300i(dipole surrounds-not that great for multichannel music)
S:PSW350i

Monster: 400mkII interconnects, IDL100 Coax(pioneer), ILS100 optical(Onkyo), MB400, M1 front speakers, XP-CI center and rear, HTS1000 power center

[Lee]

Craig,
How did the Sunfire's match up with the maggies?  I'm looking to add a sub or subs in the near future...

[Nick's Picks]

My system:
Philips 963sa DVD/SACD > cheap AR interconnects
Audio Experience (Y-S audio) Symphonies tube preamp > decent Monster interconnects
McCormack DNA-1 powerdrive (185wpc @ 8ohm) >
MIT Term 3 biwire speaker cables >
Martin Logan SL3 electrostats

Soon to be added:
ART DIO dac, in transit to Boulder Cables to perform the MENSA plus upgrade which is supposed to transfor this $130 DAC into a SERIOUS contender.  I mean real serious.  But, we'll see.  I've never heard it.

Im also SUB shopping as well.  Looking at the moderately priced Velodyne stuff, but would like to find a Vandersteen w2.   I keep getting paradigm subs recomended to me on the newsgroup I mention below, so i'm looking into that stuff too.

fwiw...

Maggies are not electrostats.  They are Plannar technology.  Different, though still flat.
Electrostatic speakers need to be plugged in (AC power).

The Martin Logans are not really expensive in the world of speakers that are their peers.  They are
often considered a good high end value speaker, but king of that title, IMO goes to the maggies.

As per adding a sub and the quickness of flat speakers, I have been discussing this in the rec.audio.high-end
newsgroup and have heard some interesting things.    Let me cut and paste:

 "Nick's Picks" nick@nospam-nickspicks.com wrote:

nousaine wrote: ... snips....


>>>> The main "matching" problem with electrostats is that the falling dynamic
>>>> capability at lower frequencies cannot keep up with a powerful subwoofer.
>
>>IOW
>
>>>> the electrostats figuratively aren't dynamically "fast" enough to kep up
>
>>with
>
>>>> the subwoofer; especially in the crossover range. This can result in
>
>>mid-bass
>
>>>> compression or too-fat bass if the subwoofer gain is increased to try to
>>>> fill-in the crossover hole.
>
Nick wrote:
>>Now, i'm no audio pro but you have just said the exact oppossite of what
>>  has been explained to me.


By people who dont fully understand how this works. It IS true that people
often have better luck matching panel speakers with subwoofers that have more
nearly matched dynamic capabilities especially near the crossover frequency.
That means using a subwoofer with relatively poor dyanmic capability .....
which 'matches' it to a main speaker with that characteristic in its lower
bandwidth.


>>the problem matching subs w/ electrostats (or plannar) speakers is that
>>speakers of this type are *very fast* when comparred to moving cones and
>>coils.  


This is just an Urban Myth. To maintain a given SPL at low frequencies requires
a given level of displacement. Because panel speakers have a large surface area
(an advantage) but a limited stroke they are dynamically limited at low
frequencies.
In other words they are dynamically "slow."

In physical terms a cone speaker with a much smaller surface area must move a
greater distance to maintain the same SPL but also must do so it the same
amount of time (60 times a second at 60 Hz, for example). Therefore it
literally has to be physically "faster."

So you end up w/a sluggish bass responce if not done properly.

>>this is what iv'e been told by ML recently and prior by Magneplannar
>>when I used to be a Maggie fan (still am, btw).


Actually the condition you describe is usually attributable to set-ups that
overcompensate for the mid-bass compression that comes with matching a
dynamically more capable subwoofer with a dynamically limited satellite by
setting the subwoofer level too high.


>>I dont mean to be the guy who asks for help, and then tells others the
>>way it is...I just didn't want to be spreading disinformation, or
>>following it should I be the one mistaken.


Thank you for the question. The "fast" bass Urban Myth is widely spread but
doesn't stand the test when studied with an eye to finding out what really
happens.
 

>>>> As a general rule, most of these issues can be resolved satisfactorily with
>>>> careful crossover/level set-up. For this reason you may wish to try for a
>>>> subwoofer model that has high-pass facility for the mainsf that's not
>
>>already
>
>>>> provided in your electronics.
>>>>
>
>>
>>It took me a long time to finaly dial in the sub I ran w/my Maggies, and
>>  that came down to placement in the room above all else.


Placement is also important. But crossover/level matching is equally important.

Let me give you another example. A few years ago I built a subwoofer that would
produce 120 dB SPL < 10% distortion from 12 to 62 Hz. When matched with a
multichannel system that had very capable active 6.5-inch satellite speakers at
all channels.

What I then got was the classic mid-upper bass compression with high-output
bass material because the 6.5-inch woofers didn't have dynamic capability near
the crossover to "keep up" with the subwoofer.

The "fix" for this was an additional 10-inch powered bandpass "subwoofer" that
operates between 45 and 100 Hz for the left and right main channels. I wasn't
interested in choking-off the bass (using a limited capability subwoofer) to
get the best overall blend.

Another little trick that some might not think of was to increase the
electronic low pass frequency for the subwoofer to 120 Hz. The unit begins
rolling off acoustically around 70 Hz anyway; so a little additional output
just above the acoustical crossover frequency was helpful.

All this simply tells me that basic understanding about
dynamic-capability-matching aspects of sub/sat set-up is very useful and not
widely understood by the industry.  

++++++++++++++++++++++++end of clip+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now, I dont know if I fully soaked in what was told to me, or even if I fully believe it.  Afterall, this person has contradicted what Maggie and ML dealers have told me directly.  Who knows....

[Craig T]

Craig,
How did the Sunfire's match up with the maggies?  I'm looking to add a sub or subs in the near future...

The "jr" did suprisingly well, 2 sounded tighter than 1 at the same SPL.  Not as boomy as its bigger brothers.  I found lifting them off the floor on short spiked stands helped a bit, too.

Check out the ACI Force, too.  www.audioc.com.  30-day home trial.

[Lee]

thanks, guys.  +T

[Tim]

Nick - keep us updated on that DAC. How much is the mod?

[DaryanLenz]

Lee, it's probably not the best sub out there, but the mirage sfx-8 I got from Nick, well actually I own nick's previous b&w setup, complements the speakers very well in my smallish foyer/living room in my apartment.  Plus, the price was right!

Daryan

[Nick's Picks]

the price for the MENSA plus upgrade to the ART DIO is $500 even
totaling $630, including a new ART DIO to sent them.

I paid less for mine.  I got my DIO, already upraded to the sMART package by boulder cable (a lower level upgrade).  That upgrade alone is $250, i got mine for $160 (unit and upgrade).  So, it should only cost me $250ish to have them finish the upgrade to the MESNA+ package.
I can't wait to hear it.

[Tim]

keep us posted!

[Nick's Picks]

will do.
in fact, i'm planning a little shootout between the m-audio SUPER-DAC, my ART, a Benchmark DAC-1 (whos got one and wants to play?) and the Grace 901.
I'll have that info on site when its ready

[MattD]

Anyone have a Lucid to add to the mix, Nick?

[Nick's Picks]

nope...I haven't really looked around for one.

[Tim]

sounds interesting. I've only heard the Benchmark and I like what I heard but I need to hear one in my system.

[Nick's Picks]

Carls got one comeing...and i'm also VERY excited to hear it up against the ART.  It it smokes it, then I may find myself a benchmark owner eventualy.

I let Carl buy the stuff, then I decide if its good and get componants of my own.  outside of speaker choices, we have had mirror systems almost.  Different preamps, cables..etc.  its nice as we have some different gear now to swap out w/each other.

[Tim]

that is a pretty nice deal, I got to hear the DAC-1 because Phil has one at Sonic Sense. It's pretty nice to listen on my home system and then go over to SS and listen on the DAC-1 and the Genelec's. The two system's couldn't sound more different!

[Daryan]

BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Updated system as of next Monday:

Panasonic XR-45 class D amp, Bolder Cable HT mod with bybee filters
Toshiba 4960 used as transport, BobM mods with my own variations
VMPS 626R, BCSE, (auricaps, soundcoat, megawoofer, FST, and piano black finish)
BPT 1.5 power coniditoner
Bolder Nitro speaker cables, Nitro Ultra power cables throughout
Eichmann Express 4 interconnects, Art Audio interconnects X 2
Parts Express 1000w class AB external plate amp, mounted in cherry box with additional rca outputs
Rocket ELT's in the rear, though not hooked up
cryotweaks silver digital cable
glass optical cables
Too many tweaks I have fooled around with to mention!

Coming Monday:

VMPS New Larger Sub, soundcoat, megawoofers, , dual binding posts for bi-amping, and I am going to rewire with bare nitro wire from Bolder