Topic: NEW: Tascam DR-100mkii

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

http://tascam.jp/product/dr-100mkii

DAP1 style levels.  nice.

[hi and lo]

Looks like it's got a digital in, too. I'm sure a few people will be interested in that.

edit: press release - http://tascam.com/news/display/715/

[yltfan]

Digital and p48 xlr inputs!
$329 retail

[hi and lo]

Who's in for a whole new wave of "DIN Unlock" posts?!! 

[johnw]

Is that optical digital in? Looks like an 1/8" jack.

[jbell]

Looks like an optical to me!! 

Is that optical digital in? Looks like an 1/8" jack.

[flipp]

the page in the OP and google's translation both indicate coaxial S/PDIF digi-in with supplied adapter cable

looks interesting but by the time my current decks need replacing I'm sure something better will be out; in the meantime the slutty side is more than ready to pounce


from hilo's press release link:

Digital Input   3/32” (2.5 mm) TRS jack (using the conversion cable made for this unit)
Format   IEC60958-3(S/PDIF)

looks like the digi adapter cable is an optional accessory as the english spec page does not list it as included
but the pdf of the owner's manual does list it as included so appears someone will actually have to have unit in hand to see whether it is or isn't included in the retail package

[yltfan]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/832911-REG/Tascam_DR100MKII_DR_100mkII_Portable_Linear.html

[stevetoney]

Nice!  This will either drive the price point for the 661 way down or drive the demand for the 661 way down, or both.

[page]

Nice!  This will either drive the price point for the 661 way down or drive the demand for the 661 way down, or both.

Assuming Tascam didn't screw the pooch on it.

Who wants to nominate moke to review one.

[Gutbucket]

Interesting features:

the good-
>Digital in (coaxial)- adapter appears to be simply a cable- 2.5mm mini-plug (smaller than typical 3.5mm mini headphone/mic jack) > RCA female.
>Two internal battery sources (Li-Ion & AA)- ability to set either as primary source and hot swap between them.  Li-Ion can be charged via USB connection or external charger.

the bad-
>No dual recording/4-channel ability like the DR2d? really? come on.

the ugly-
>Note in the manual (p.30)- "When the input is LINE 1/2, regardless of the LEVEL CTRL setting, it will always function as LMT (limiter)."

[H₂O]

Just don't use an external battery 

[H₂O]

the ugly-
>Note in the manual (p.30)- "When the input is LINE 1/2, regardless of the LEVEL CTRL setting, it will always function as LMT (limiter)."

It looks like the only 2 options here are Auto and LMT - so auto gain or Limiter only:

"LEVEL CTRL:
Set the recording level control function used on the mic inputs. The default value is LMT. (See “Using the level control function” on page 32.) When set to LMT(limiter), the input gain will be adjusted automatically according to the analog input level, so that the recording level will not be distorted even if the input signal is very loud.
When set to AUTO(auto gain control), the gain is automatically adjusted to make the volume as even as possible. The gain increases for low-level input signals, and the gain decreases for high-level input signals."

"TIP:
•    During live performances and at other times when unexpected loud noises are input, set the LEVEL CTRL item to LMTto prevent overloads and allow recording without distortion."

Exerts from Page 30 of the manual.

Personally I can't stand Auto gain - but there should be a way to disable the limiter.

UPDATE:
You can disable the Auto/Limiter through a switch on the bottom:

Set the AUTO/LIMITER switch on the bottom of the recorder to ON. - See Page 32

[stevetoney]

Note to reinforce that the issue being made in the two posts above this one about the auto/limiter isn't an issue.  There's a switch on the unit to disable this feature. 

Even if you couldn't disable the auto/limiter, a default of LMT wouldn't be a big deal IMO.  Alot of people that record in 24bit set their limiter on as a safety, but it never engages because they manually set their levels with lots of headroom.

[aleal5687]

wow looks very cool. I just wish they would have included dual recording.

[Cheesecadet]

wow looks very cool. I just wish they would have included dual recording.

Maybe they would be able to include dual recording as some sort of firmware update down the line???

[tgakidis]

Who's in for a whole new wave of "DIN Unlock" posts?!! 

 

[bhadella]

This unit + USBPre2 = Giant Killer

[spyder9]

Official web page at Tascam:

http://tascam.com/product/dr-100mkii/

[spyder9]

The first version of the Tascam 100 suffered from horrible battery life.  A lemon for Tascam.  Let's hope they learned from it.  I always liked their recorders.  You can't beat the price on this puppy.     

[hi and lo]

This unit + USBPre2 = Giant Killer

For that price you could have an R44 or 680 and certainly there would a wide variety of better options than an unproven tascam.

[JD]

Ni-MH batteries(eneloop）Built-in mics（UNI／OMNI） About 4 hours（Recording WAV, 44.1kHz, 16 bit）

So I would guess that with the 48 phantom on and a higher bit rate, it would halve that run time.
That would be cutting a little too close for most shows I do.
Too bad if that is the case, this and a pair of Nevaton MCE400's would have the potential to make a nice, compact undercover rig.

[bhadella]

This unit + USBPre2 = Giant Killer

For that price you could have an R44 or 680 and certainly there would a wide variety of better options than an unproven tascam.

While I love my R44 (and the additional channels) this unit is priced at 1/3 of the going price of an R44 or 680.  Damn attractive price.

[stevetoney]

Ni-MH batteries(eneloop）Built-in mics（UNI／OMNI） About 4 hours（Recording WAV, 44.1kHz, 16 bit）

So I would guess that with the 48 phantom on and a higher bit rate, it would halve that run time.
That would be cutting a little too close for most shows I do.
Too bad if that is the case, this and a pair of Nevaton MCE400's would have the potential to make a nice, compact undercover rig.

If you read the manual more closely, I think you'll find that this isn't a valid conclusion. 
 
You're missing the point that this unit has BOTH a built in Li-Ion battery and a slot for a pair of AAs and that you can hot-swap the AAs.  The user specifies in the menu which batteries you want to run down first, but obviously you'd want to run out the AAs first. 

The point here is that you run AAs first and then the unit switches over seamlessly to the Li-ion internal while you swap AAs.  Once you swap AAs, you're back on AA power and that process continues forever.

The manual says the Li-ion lasts 5 hours, so if you do nothing you have 9hours of on-board power.  The manual also shows that there's no difference in power consumption between the different bit rates, although I'm sure you're right that if you're running 48V phantom your run-times will be a little shorter, but DEFinitely not half.

The bottom line though is that this unit REALLY has a cool feature that with dual power sources, it can theoretially run for days without ever shutting off as long as you hot swap two AAs every 4 hours or so.

[JD]

Ni-MH batteries(eneloop）Built-in mics（UNI／OMNI） About 4 hours（Recording WAV, 44.1kHz, 16 bit）

So I would guess that with the 48 phantom on and a higher bit rate, it would halve that run time.
That would be cutting a little too close for most shows I do.
Too bad if that is the case, this and a pair of Nevaton MCE400's would have the potential to make a nice, compact undercover rig.

This isn't a good conclusion.  Run time on this unit is infinite as long as you have batteries to put into it.

You're missing the point that this unit has BOTH a built in Li-Ion battery and a slot for a pair of AAs and that you can hot-swap the AAs.  The user specifies in the menu which batteries you want to run down first, but obviously you'd want to run out the AAs first. 

The point here is that you run AAs first and then the unit switches over seamlessly to the Li-ion internal while you swap AAs.  Once you swap AAs, you're back on AA power and that process continues forever.

The manual says the Li-ion lasts 5 hours, so if you do nothing you have 9hours of on-board power.  The manual also shows that there's no difference in power consumption between the different bit rates, although I'm sure you're right that if you're running 48V phantom your run-times will be a little shorter, but DEFinitely not half.

Didn't see that there was a Li-ion battery as well. Could be doable if the combination of batteries will run with 48p on for at least 4 hours. I can't be swapping batteries at most stealth shows I record. 
Looking forward to seeing some field testing results of this unit.

[Gutbucket]

The user specifies in the menu which batteries you want to run down first, but obviously you'd want to run out the AAs first.

Unless you had more than one LiIon pack, it is removable just like the AAs, not fixed. 

The bottom line though is that this unit REALLY has a cool feature that with dual power sources, it can theoretially run for days without ever shutting off as long as you hot swap two AAs every 4 hours or so.

Or just use a big enough external battery.

[stevetoney]

Ni-MH batteries(eneloop）Built-in mics（UNI／OMNI） About 4 hours（Recording WAV, 44.1kHz, 16 bit）

So I would guess that with the 48 phantom on and a higher bit rate, it would halve that run time.
That would be cutting a little too close for most shows I do.
Too bad if that is the case, this and a pair of Nevaton MCE400's would have the potential to make a nice, compact undercover rig.

This isn't a good conclusion.  Run time on this unit is infinite as long as you have batteries to put into it.

You're missing the point that this unit has BOTH a built in Li-Ion battery and a slot for a pair of AAs and that you can hot-swap the AAs.  The user specifies in the menu which batteries you want to run down first, but obviously you'd want to run out the AAs first. 

The point here is that you run AAs first and then the unit switches over seamlessly to the Li-ion internal while you swap AAs.  Once you swap AAs, you're back on AA power and that process continues forever.

The manual says the Li-ion lasts 5 hours, so if you do nothing you have 9hours of on-board power.  The manual also shows that there's no difference in power consumption between the different bit rates, although I'm sure you're right that if you're running 48V phantom your run-times will be a little shorter, but DEFinitely not half.

Didn't see that there was a Li-ion battery as well. Could be doable if the combination of batteries will run with 48p on for at least 4 hours. I can't be swapping batteries at most stealth shows I record. 
Looking forward to seeing some field testing results of this unit.

I don't remember exactly what my setup was, but when I recorded with an m248 I remember getting 4 hour run-times, but I'd get between 5 and 5 1/2 hours if I wasn't powering my mics with the preamp battery.  You mics might not draw the same as whatever I was powering, but seems pretty likely that this unit would get you through a show without needing to swap batteries since 9hours seems to be what it specs out at in the manual.

I wonder when they start shipping.  Thinking strongly about pre-ordering one.

[stevetoney]

Or just use a big enough external battery.

That's how I'd run it, assuming it doesn't suffer the same issues as the 680.

[Todd R]

This looks like a nice recorder, especially if it doesn't have any problems using a digital input (personally though, I never had any problems on my DR680 with a digi-in).

Hard for me to call it a giant killer though.  Partially since there already are so many options out there for killing giants -- for example a littlebox preamp that really set the bar for price/performance ratio IME.  Partially since the giant-killing option has already been there.

I've never run or even heard recordings from a USBPre, but assuming it is just like a 722/702 in sound:  we've already had the option for USBPre> Sony D50 since the USBPre came out (as it provides an optical digital out).  The D50 is only $130 more new than this new DR100mkII, so not a big change really.  Plus I'd much rather have Lunatec V3>D50, which can be had (used) for just a couple hundred bucks than a USBPre>DR100mkII combo.

To me, the DR100mkII seems like it has a lot going for it though:  low cost, small recorder; lockable XLR inputs, that take a hot line in signal (+24dbu); good internal battery management as discussed above; digital input (!!!!); can function as a good all-in-one option if the need arises or the user is happy enough with the sound; ability to be paired with high-end preamps and A/Ds.

The other good thing is that it really lowers the cost of a digital-input recorder, down from the 661 (about half the price?) -- particularly if the A/D doesn't have an optical out (like I said, the USBPre and opti-V3 users have already had the D50, but now there is a low cost recorder for those with stock V3's, AD2k+'s, Mytek, Minime's, etc).  That is, meaning if it is reliable -- I know the Microtrack fits that bill, but I can't deal with its unreliability and general finicky-ness.

[Gutbucket]

..assuming it doesn't suffer the same issues as the 680.

Just make sure it gets the right voltage. 

I used the battery below with the DR2d until the firmware update got the run time up to 5+ hrs on AAs.  Ran it all day for a few fests and it only dropped a few bars on the charge indicator (maybe 25%) recording 4 channels but no phantom load of course.  Haven't needed to use it since the update, but it would probably now run it for days.    Smaller than a DVD battery:
http://www.energizerpowerpacks.com/us/products/xp8000/

[page]

I'm with Todd, it looks like it has potential for a budget recorder, but it's not revolutionary over some other offerings plus Tascam's track record as of late hasn't been sterling...

Whoever buys one first; don't forget to test whether it's bitperfect and if it does truely seemless splits.

[stevetoney]

..assuming it doesn't suffer the same issues as the 680.

Just make sure it gets the right voltage. 

I used the battery below with the DR2d until the firmware update got the run time up to 5+ hrs on AAs.  Ran it all day for a few fests and it only dropped a few bars on the charge indicator (maybe 25%) recording 4 channels but no phantom load of course.  Haven't needed to use it since the update, but it would probably now run it for days.    Smaller than a DVD battery:
http://www.energizerpowerpacks.com/us/products/xp8000/

Nice.  I actually have a battery that's my dedicated recorder battery.  It's a powerrunner (the highest capacity one) and it's been my 'old faithful' now for ever.  It's flea bitten and the outer case has been broken, taped up, broken again and retaped.   It's like that piece of clothing that you have that's totally worn out but works better and looks better than ANYTHING you could possibly get new.  The powerrunner is actually the predecessor of the Tekkeon.  My powerrunner will power any 5V recorder I've owned for almost an entire 4 day festival and it WILL power most that I've owned.

[stevetoney]

The other good thing is that it really lowers the cost of a digital-input recorder, down from the 661 (about half the price?) -- particularly if the A/D doesn't have an optical out (like I said, the USBPre and opti-V3 users have already had the D50, but now there is a low cost recorder for those with stock V3's, AD2k+'s, Mytek, Minime's, etc).  That is, meaning if it is reliable -- I know the Microtrack fits that bill, but I can't deal with its unreliability and general finicky-ness.

^ This is the key right here. 

For the last 3 or 4 years, whenever anyone has put out a 'wish list' for hand-held recorder features, the No. 1 request is by far a digital input on a reliable, low cost recorder.  The D50 moved in that direction, but the price point is still up there and it's limited by providing optical input only and the SPDIF standard limits the number of devices it's compatible with.

So, I'm actually pretty psyched about this because I've been waiting for a hand-held with this feature set, with the added bonus of the innovative dual battery design. 

I also love that there are dual XLRs that are switchable between mic and line levels, just like a 661 and a SD-7xx.

[bhadella]

At $150 less than the D50 (and with non-optical in) it's a great additon to the market.  Add on the fact that it can provide P48 across a xlr and it's a great addition to ther arsenal.

[spyder9]

Ni-MH batteries(eneloop）Built-in mics（UNI／OMNI） About 4 hours（Recording WAV, 44.1kHz, 16 bit）

So I would guess that with the 48 phantom on and a higher bit rate, it would halve that run time.
That would be cutting a little too close for most shows I do.
Too bad if that is the case, this and a pair of Nevaton MCE400's would have the potential to make a nice, compact undercover rig.

If you read the manual more closely, I think you'll find that this isn't a valid conclusion. 
 
You're missing the point that this unit has BOTH a built in Li-Ion battery and a slot for a pair of AAs and that you can hot-swap the AAs.  The user specifies in the menu which batteries you want to run down first, but obviously you'd want to run out the AAs first. 

The point here is that you run AAs first and then the unit switches over seamlessly to the Li-ion internal while you swap AAs.  Once you swap AAs, you're back on AA power and that process continues forever.

The manual says the Li-ion lasts 5 hours, so if you do nothing you have 9hours of on-board power.  The manual also shows that there's no difference in power consumption between the different bit rates, although I'm sure you're right that if you're running 48V phantom your run-times will be a little shorter, but DEFinitely not half.

The bottom line though is that this unit REALLY has a cool feature that with dual power sources, it can theoretially run for days without ever shutting off as long as you hot swap two AAs every 4 hours or so.

NOTE:  Battery powering is a MAJOR redesign for this recorder.  The Lithium battery for this unit is the EXACT SAME BATTERY used in the Tascam DR-1 and 100 recorders.  What they did was add the AA's to the Sled.  That's it.  I bet the MKII will get at least 5 hours of battery life (lithium + AA's), P48 at 24 bit wav.  Also, Hot swaps is a fantastic new feature too. 

[spyder9]

I'm with Todd, it looks like it has potential for a budget recorder, but it's not revolutionary over some other offerings plus Tascam's track record as of late hasn't been sterling...

Whoever buys one first; don't forget to test whether it's bitperfect and if it does truely seemless splits.

I've owned the HDP2, DR-1, DR07, DR08, and  DR2D.  Always had seamless splits.  Even at festies.  Never failed me. 

Where are you reading this?  680 thread?  Link please?  Thanks. 

[stevetoney]

These are shipping now from B&H.  I'll have one in hand on Friday.  I'll do a review of the unit when it arrives.

Assuming everything works as billed, I'll have a 661 for sale this weekend. 

[jbell]

I'm intereted in finding out what you think!!  Keep us posted

These are shipping now from B&H.  I'll have one in hand on Friday.  I'll do a review of the unit when it arrives.

Assuming everything works as billed, I'll have a 661 for sale this weekend.

[Massive Dynamic]

I'm intereted in finding out what you think!!  Keep us posted

These are shipping now from B&H.  I'll have one in hand on Friday.  I'll do a review of the unit when it arrives.

Assuming everything works as billed, I'll have a 661 for sale this weekend.

I wonder if one of these would send a signal to a UA-5?
And if that coax adapter cable comes standard.

[stevetoney]

I'm intereted in finding out what you think!!  Keep us posted

These are shipping now from B&H.  I'll have one in hand on Friday.  I'll do a review of the unit when it arrives.

Assuming everything works as billed, I'll have a 661 for sale this weekend.

I wonder if one of these would send a signal to a UA-5?
And if that coax adapter cable comes standard.

I'll let you know about the coax adapter.  The manual says it's included.

As far as the first question, don't you mean that you wonder if this will accept a digi-signal from a UA-5?  If not, explain what you're trying to do and I'll see if I can tell if it does that when I get my hands on it on Friday.

[Massive Dynamic]

As far as the first question, don't you mean that you wonder if this will accept a digi-signal from a UA-5?  If not, explain what you're trying to do and I'll see if I can tell if it does that when I get my hands on it on Friday.

Yeah, still looking for an affordable, reliable 24-bit bucket. If you could get hold of a UA-5 and test, I think there may be others who would be interested. Thanks!

[Gil]

Steve, don't forget Team Pittsburgh first. I might be interested.

[datbrad]

Checking the manual, looks like the breakout cable for digi in is included. Strange design choice, IMO. Why have practically a proprietary mini-mini jack to an RCA breakout when a regular RCA coax would fit? The Microtrac is similar in size and has a full size coax. I don't see anything about this unit that would drive me to sell my 661 for it. Steve does not need a real reason to switch up gear, so don't go by his rationalizations for why he wants to try this Tascam out.
* Merry Christmas Steve, btw * 

[page]

I'm with Todd, it looks like it has potential for a budget recorder, but it's not revolutionary over some other offerings plus Tascam's track record as of late hasn't been sterling...

Whoever buys one first; don't forget to test whether it's bitperfect and if it does truely seemless splits.

I've owned the HDP2, DR-1, DR07, DR08, and  DR2D.  Always had seamless splits.  Even at festies.  Never failed me. 

Where are you reading this?  680 thread?  Link please?  Thanks.

Just thinking out loud. I'd like to assume it does seemless splits based on past performance, but checking is always nice. Thats all.

[stevetoney]

Checking the manual, looks like the breakout cable for digi in is included. Strange design choice, IMO. Why have practically a proprietary mini-mini jack to an RCA breakout when a regular RCA coax would fit? The Microtrac is similar in size and has a full size coax. I don't see anything about this unit that would drive me to sell my 661 for it. Steve does not need a real reason to switch up gear, so don't go by his rationalizations for why he wants to try this Tascam out.
* Merry Christmas Steve, btw *

Brad, I'm thinking that their reasoning was that they saved one jack with this design since that's a dual purpose jack (digi-in and remote control input).  Perhaps they needed the space on the inside. 

I can't speak to why they used a mini-jack, but I didn't see that as a real big deal.  I guess people say that digi-cables should be a different impedence than others, but I've used  'normal' el-cheapo RCA cables for between my SPDIF connections in the past and they seemed to work just fine.  Maybe I just got lucky, but my thinking was that any ole RCA > mini-jack cable could be used even if I don't have the short cable that's supplied with the unit.

As far as my rationalizations for trying out new gear, you got me!

Merry Christmas back at-cha! 

PS:  I'll be in Richmond for the holidays...if I can get it past the boss, since she'll be spending it with her sisters, I might try to escape on NYE and catch Brothers Past at Canal Club.

[datbrad]

Steve, Def hope you go to Brothers Past and tape, especially the opener, Existor. They are friends of mine and are great. I'm going to Panic as are a few other area tapers, and there is also DBT in DC and Stringdusters in C'ville, so not many of us left to tape the Canal Club. Add to your calendar Indecision on Dec 22nd and Keller Williams on the 29th, both at the National Theater. Hope to see you at one of those.

[stevetoney]

Steve, Def hope you go to Brothers Past and tape, especially the opener, Existor. They are friends of mine and are great. I'm going to Panic as are a few other area tapers, and there is also DBT in DC and Stringdusters in C'ville, so not many of us left to tape the Canal Club. Add to your calendar Indecision on Dec 22nd and Keller Williams on the 29th, both at the National Theater. Hope to see you at one of those.

The keller set is likely.  By this time I'm going to seriously need some time away from the fam, so Keller will probably sound like a rock star to me that night.  I'm waiting for the right moment to discuss the possibility of going out on NYE and that moment hasn't come yet.  I'm thinking that will be right after I do something terrific in the husband category.

[aleal5687]

I sent a email regarding if dual recording would be a possibility on the new dr100mkII.


I do not know of any firmware updates that will make dual recording possible but I will put in the suggestion for you.
 
Thank you for your interest in Teac/Tascam products. If you need further assistance feel free to call us at 323-727-7617 or e-mail us at Custser@teac.com

[mterry]

damnit, I sold my 661 trying to get out of taping. now this thing pops up.....crap.

 

[Massive Dynamic]

Not to muddy up Steve's review, I'll post my question here. A bit-bucket is generally wanted if you already have nice gear (V3) upstream. Although the sound of my T+mod UA-5 is nice, it is actually worth less on the open market than this new recorder. The sound of the DR-100mkii, and/or phantom output, would have to be audibly subpar to go to the trouble of running the UA-5 in front. If this unit has true p48, and the preamps are not terribly noisy when turned up, the digi-in may turn out to be superfluous for all the noise we tapers make about it. Still curious to hear whether the Tascam will accept a UA-5 digi-in signal and whether stock recordings are so poor that an external preamp is required.

[jbou]

Tascam seems to be putting out so many new recorders... Looking at the DR-100mkII and the DR-40 that both have recently come out. Is the DR-40 supposed to be a more consumer level product while the DR-100mkII is supposed to be a more "professional" level product?

[dogmusic]

Tascam seems to be putting out so many new recorders... Looking at the DR-100mkII and the DR-40 that both have recently come out. Is the DR-40 supposed to be a more consumer level product while the DR-100mkII is supposed to be a more "professional" level product?

DR-40 is 4 track. But it seems the DR100mkii may have overdubbing facility [manual, p.34]:

"Recording playback and input sounds together (overdubbing)
When an audio file is playing back, you can record the playback sound together with the input sound. This creates a new file and does not overwrite the playback file."

[dogmusic]

Anyone in Canada looking to buy this unit, I got mine delivered from DV Shop in Toronto (no affiliation) for $330.00.

Sale Price was $319.00 CAD + $11.00 Expedited Shipping by Canada Post.

Plus 13% HST of course.    ( Gotta pay for that health care....)

http://www.dvshop.ca/audio/recorderstascam.html

Deal goes until Dec. 23rd.

Most other Canadian retailers, if they have them in stock, are closer to the $400 mark -- and over.