Topic: Edirol R-09/M-Audio Microtrack, what's the best sound quality?I'm a newbie here.

[Soundhound]

I'm a newbie here. I want to get the best quality I can to record some band rehearsals. What's the best quality I can expect from these portable devices, and which one(s) would you recommend? Will the internal mics do the job, or should I use better quality mics, etc. Any others besides the two I mentioned that I should be looking at? Thanks!!

[Brian Skalinder]

What's your budget?

If you're recording analog-in, I'd go with the R-09.  Digital-in, I'd go with the MicroTrack.  Also, there are 16-bit options for less money which may suit your needs, like the Nomad JB3, iRiver H1x0, and...rats, forget the other one.  Even Hi-MD may suit your needs, depending on your requirements and budget.

As for the included / internal mics, I haven't used them.  Any reason you couldn't get the unit, try it out with the internal / included mics, and if it doesn't produce the results you want, add external mics afterwards?

[Soundhound]

$500 or so is the budget. Want to spend as much as it takes to get something that's easy to use and gets us the best sound we can get to record some rehearsals. We just need to get some tunes on tape quick for some club/booking people around town who have expressed interest/are holding dates open for us, etc...

Do you think the Edirol or Microtracks will sound good enough?

[divamum]

I'll be honest, I've been blown away by the R09, and particularly by its internal mics. I blow out most mics (opera singer) and have yet to have any distorting with the ones in the R09. They're a little bit "dark", but they're quite warm too. The ease of use on the unit is impressive, too - pretty much push start and go. 

I also have an iRiver that I run with CMC8 mics. I like that rig butI find I'm turning to the R09 more for rehearsals and snoop just cuz it's such a no-brainer, nothing extra to carry, and nothing to think about other than pushing start.

YMMV, but I'm happy with mine.

[lbgspam]

Please see the FAQ as well...

[Roving Sign]

Dont forget the Zoom H4...no digital input - but it doesnt sound like that is necessary for your purposes...

Usually selling for less than 300 bucks -

http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1901

[Soundhound]

i'm looking at the h4. i guess myy biggest want is the best sound. anyone have a pick in that regard?

[Brian Skalinder]

$500 or so is the budget.

Is this budget for the recorder only, or also mics and other gear?

[guysonic]

i'm looking at the h4. i guess myy biggest want is the best sound. anyone have a pick in that regard?

The mic, and how it is being used may be considered 90-95% of the audible recording quality. 

Preamp is next in importance with A/D being dead last.   

If this is true, then internal deck mic qualities may be a major consideration in deck model choice if expecting to use these for serious interests.  Both R-09 and H4 have internal mic feature.

Next is the deck's mic preamplifier and it seems with all three choices discussed so far, noise is the most common shortcoming for at least acoustic source recording.   Microtrack's preamp may be slightly quieter than the others in this regard.  See review graphs on noise at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm and http://www.sonicstudios.com/mt2496rv.htm

Using the internal deck mic leaves no external solution to preamp noise, but using external mics leaves possibility of very good to excellent audio performance quality using external preamplifier going into deck's analog LINE input. So all three decks have about equal potential of being at least adequate for audio recording quality using outboard mic preamp.

If external mic and preamplifier is being considered, then deck choice issues are reduced to logistics of price, size, and ease of powering for needed time.  Minor considerations are flash memory card size capability that might limit recording time with higher quality file modes.   

For these considerations, R-09 is smallest and easily powered for up to 9 hours on 2 AA, and with latest version 1.10 firmware for ability of handling up to 32 gig SDHC cards, this deck IMO tips the scale for most practical deck ONLY if up to 24bit/48K sample rate wav type recording is adequate for your needs.  Most seem to feel this is quite acceptable file quality. 

On the other hand, H4 holds potential for higher quality 24bit/96K mode feature, but flash memory size seems limited to 2 gig and this results in limited recording time when operating at highest resolution/sample rates.   

This is where the Microtrack may have advantage (regardless of powering issues) with both 24bit/88.2-96K rate modes, and handles largest CF type flash available. 

So choosing best low cost deck for sound-quality is maybe not so simple to answer in a general way, but is most dependent on how the deck is being used and recordists file quality requirements.

[Soundhound]

Thanks!

Guysonic, what would be a mic that would do the job? On the roland site thy show a mic that they suggest with it, the CS-15:

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=816

And does the Edirol have a mic preamp in it that does the job, or do you need an external preamp?

[Will_S]

On the other hand, H4 holds potential for higher quality 24bit/96K mode feature, but flash memory size seems limited to 2 gig and this results in limited recording time when operating at highest resolution/sample rates.   

Actually, several of us have had good results running the H4 with a 4 GB Transcend SD card.  You do need to manually stop and restart recording before any single file exceeds 2 GB (can be done quickly) or fix the headers in post though.

Do you have any plans to do a review of the H4 similar to those you've produced for the MT and R09?

[guysonic]

Thanks!

Guysonic, what would be a mic that would do the job? On the roland site thy show a mic that they suggest with it, the CS-15:

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=816

And does the Edirol have a mic preamp in it that does the job, or do you need an external preamp?

While mics and preamps for stereo-surround recording is my main business, there are too many choices of mics and external preamp models to consider adequate for various purposes and audio quality tastes, and these additions can be relatively cheap to many times the cost of just the deck.  

For just recording your band practice, and keeping within your budget, the choice of external mic with maybe external preamp seems not an affordable or necessary option for you to consider at this time.  Using the internal mics of R-09 or H4 seems the most prudent for the time being, seeing how far you can go with this until budget and desire for improvement allows for considering additions.

Choosing the better deck for having a working mic for recording your band depends first on loudness handling ability of the deck's mic and secondary is audio quality.  I have no personal experience with the using either deck's internal mic, and what loudness your band practice is requiring for the mic to handle.  

Ideally of course, best to try both these decks out for intended use to see if one or both provides an adequate recording for your situation.  

There is some experience already posted in this group using R-09 mics for recording fairly loud live venue already, and there are opinions of satisfactory quality for at least some tastes.  H4 is relatively new with opinions of deck's mic abilities maybe a bit harder to find for time being.

On the other hand, H4 holds potential for higher quality 24bit/96K mode feature, but flash memory size seems limited to 2 gig and this results in limited recording time when operating at highest resolution/sample rates.   

Actually, several of us have had good results running the H4 with a 4 GB Transcend SD card.  You do need to manually stop and restart recording before any single file exceeds 2 GB (can be done quickly) or fix the headers in post though.

Do you have any plans to do a review of the H4 similar to those you've produced for the MT and R09?

Several have requested such a review, and I have to admit to not thinking the H4 a serious enough deck to consider worth the trouble.  However, I am reconsidering in light of many posts on the web expressing satisfaction with this using internal mic, and at least working OK with externally connected gear.  It seems initial shipments of H4 have sold out in most places.  Anyone have a loaner to use for doing a review?

[poorlyconditioned]

i'm looking at the h4. i guess myy biggest want is the best sound. anyone have a pick in that regard?

The mic, and how it is being used may be considered 90-95% of the audible recording quality. 

Preamp is next in importance with A/D being dead last.   

If this is true, then internal deck mic qualities may be a major consideration in deck model choice if expecting to use these for serious interests.  Both R-09 and H4 have internal mic feature.

Next is the deck's mic preamplifier and it seems with all three choices discussed so far, noise is the most common shortcoming for at least acoustic source recording.   Microtrack's preamp may be slightly quieter than the others in this regard.  See review graphs on noise at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm and http://www.sonicstudios.com/mt2496rv.htm

Using the internal deck mic leaves no external solution to preamp noise, but using external mics leaves possibility of very good to excellent audio performance quality using external preamplifier going into deck's analog LINE input. So all three decks have about equal potential of being at least adequate for audio recording quality using outboard mic preamp.

If external mic and preamplifier is being considered, then deck choice issues are reduced to logistics of price, size, and ease of powering for needed time.  Minor considerations are flash memory card size capability that might limit recording time with higher quality file modes.   

For these considerations, R-09 is smallest and easily powered for up to 9 hours on 2 AA, and with latest version 1.10 firmware for ability of handling up to 32 gig SDHC cards, this deck IMO tips the scale for most practical deck ONLY if up to 24bit/48K sample rate wav type recording is adequate for your needs.  Most seem to feel this is quite acceptable file quality. 

On the other hand, H4 holds potential for higher quality 24bit/96K mode feature, but flash memory size seems limited to 2 gig and this results in limited recording time when operating at highest resolution/sample rates.   

This is where the Microtrack may have advantage (regardless of powering issues) with both 24bit/88.2-96K rate modes, and handles largest CF type flash available. 

So choosing best low cost deck for sound-quality is maybe not so simple to answer in a general way, but is most dependent on how the deck is being used and recordists file quality requirements.

Thanks for the great review of the R09!

  Richard

[Teen Age Riot]

Choosing the better deck for having a working mic for recording your band depends first on loudness handling ability of the deck's mic and secondary is audio quality.  I have no personal experience with the using either deck's internal mic, and what loudness your band practice is requiring for the mic to handle. 

FWIW, I play in a band myself, and we use the R09 all the time to record our rehearsals. The fidelity of this thing is actually quite stunning and more than sufficient for this kind of application.

Also, I haven't been able to overload the internal mics yet, no matter how I abuse them. We play retro/garage sounding stoner rock if that makes any sense (think QOTSA, Stooges, Sabbath), so it gets pretty loud. I've also put the R09 directly in front of my cranked Vox AC30 without any problems.

In addition, this thing is so easy to use, even your drummer will be able to figure it out. 

[Soundhound]

I doubt  it. 

<<rim shot; crash cymbal>>

In addition, this thing is so easy to use, even your drummer will be able to figure it out. 

<<< rim shot >>>