Topic: Best Stealth Mics / Best Standard Mics = Best Bargain

[gloryandconsequenc]

I am purchasing my first recording setup and am still debating between the Sony Mz-N1, Mz-R910 (by the way, is there a difference between the rh910 and the r910?), Mz-R909 and of course the JB3.  I am leaning toward the Jb3 though. 

I am interested in opinions on these, though I've read just about everything I could find on this site. 

However, my main question today is about mics. 

I was just about sold on the AKG c1000s or C414BULS due to the optional self-powered setting and then I saw their pricetag and also started considering stealth options for further down the road. 

Most of my recording will be either tapping right into the soundboard or with a mic stand in small clubs where the bands allow taping.  = Great for the AKGs as I hear.

However, occasionally I can see myself wanting to record some shows in stealth mode.  For which there are a million options for mics. 

SO - should i buy the AKGs (or do I not need the self-amplification?),  cheaper mics of nearly comprable quality with/without power (which would be...what_?) AND some cheap stealths (which would be...what_?)?  Or just some stealths that I could rig on a mic stand when necessary?  Oh, and is it essential to have two mics? 

As always, open and appreciative of any and all advice...

Thanks a million!

PS- thinking of the Denecke AD-20 as a preamp if I buy unpowered mics...

[Ray76]

Hey bud, this topic has been covered extensively on this board, though if you are beginning , Sound Professionals makes some great reasonably priced mics, as does Core Sounds.

[NJFunk]

PS- thinking of the Denecke AD-20 as a preamp if I buy unpowered mics...

If you buy unpowered mics, the AD-20 does not provide phantom power, so you will need a battery box as well.

I am a big proponent of the Studio Projects C4 > Digimod Edirol UA-5 setup as a starter rig.  The UA-5 has phantom power, pre-amp, mic in, line in, and coax, optical, and 24/96 capable USB outs, all for only a little more than the AD-20.  The C4's are only $300, which includes both omni and card caps and shock mounts.  The only possible downside is that this rig is not particularly stealthable, depending on how important a consideration this is for you.

[leegeddy]

may i suggest the neumann km140 set.  you can open tape with them and easily stealth them using the active cable (lc3ka).

they provide exchangeable caps from omni > figure 8. new caps are expensive, though.

they do show up on the used market from time to time, but for ~$1400-1500, you'll have some great flexibility from a single set of mics.

marc

[jeromejello]

i would like to respectfully fluff the at853 

i have pulled some nice sounding shows both stealth and open.  lots of flexibility with power options (battery box or p48) and caps.

that said i am still going to eventually get some akg 460's (or dpa's if i was a big baller, yo)

[Steelcorner27]

stelthing...well I use the DPA 4061's and Audix ADX20-d's love  them both.

Brad

[KingReptile]

Hey bud, this topic has been covered extensively on this board, though if you are beginning , Sound Professionals makes some great reasonably priced mics, as does Core Sounds.

Dont waste your money on anything from core sound or Sound Pro..It will be 2-3 months and you will be replacing them....Spend the extra coin now you will save later!!The AT 853's are smokin mic go with phantom power..

[Ray76]

Hey bud, this topic has been covered extensively on this board, though if you are beginning , Sound Professionals makes some great reasonably priced mics, as does Core Sounds.

Dont waste your money on anything from core sound or Sound Pro..It will be 2-3 months and you will be replacing them....Spend the extra coin now you will save later!!The AT 853's are smokin mic go with phantom power..

 +T for helpin the guy , but Some would beg to differ with you. The HEB from core sounds, I THINK are dpa 4060s 0r 1s , and i think Macdaddy uses them, and has been for as long as i can remember. there aint too much to upgrade from on the DPA side of things. There pretty much is nowhere to go. I dont like the customer service at all, but were not talking about that. That statement you made is a generalization, and not entirely true.
DPAs are considered by many to be the top mic in its class, and most definitely an improvement over an at853, based on what ive heard around. Sound Pro makes solid products, and again, many folks use them for stealthing without ever upgrading.
Everyones different.

Ray

[spyder9]

I'd fluff the AT853RX against the DPAs.  Sure the DPAs are superior.  But the RX's can take multiple capsules and the DPAs are fixed.  So the DPA route can be very expensive for your budget.  On the flip side, some of the RX capsules have been discontinued.   For stealth purposes, DPAs and the AT853RX are the best stealth MINI mics out there in the phantom category.  You can conceal them better than their Actives cousins.

We gave you a lot of choices.  Good luck on your search.  I'm sure what ever choice you make, your recordings will turn out great!   

[Depechemode1993]

I just bought a pair of DPA 4061's and I can't believe I was with the ECM-717 for 4 years and not upgrading! These baby's kick ass!

[Steelcorner27]

Hey bud, this topic has been covered extensively on this board, though if you are beginning , Sound Professionals makes some great reasonably priced mics, as does Core Sounds.

Dont waste your money on anything from core sound or Sound Pro..It will be 2-3 months and you will be replacing them....Spend the extra coin now you will save later!!The AT 853's are smokin mic go with phantom power..

 +T for helpin the guy , but Some would beg to differ with you. The HEB from core sounds, I THINK are dpa 4060s 0r 1s , and i think Macdaddy uses them, and has been for as long as i can remember. there aint too much to upgrade from on the DPA side of things. There pretty much is nowhere to go. I dont like the customer service at all, but were not talking about that. That statement you made is a generalization, and not entirely true.
DPAs are considered by many to be the top mic in its class, and most definitely an improvement over an at853, based on what ive heard around. Sound Pro makes solid products, and again, many folks use them for stealthing without ever upgrading.
Everyones different.

Ray

Exactly Ray but the guy your quoting is a user of the 4061's his point is why buy them from CS your just paying more  for the mics thru them and getting less. Hit up one of the other dealers and save yourself a headache.And yes they are the top mic in there class, Infact they give the big mics a run for there money when used properly.

Brad

[Steelcorner27]

you should hear the 4060's/mma6000 -> DSD

lets have a sample

[Ray76]

Hey bud, this topic has been covered extensively on this board, though if you are beginning , Sound Professionals makes some great reasonably priced mics, as does Core Sounds.

Dont waste your money on anything from core sound or Sound Pro..It will be 2-3 months and you will be replacing them....Spend the extra coin now you will save later!!The AT 853's are smokin mic go with phantom power..

 +T for helpin the guy , but Some would beg to differ with you. The HEB from core sounds, I THINK are dpa 4060s 0r 1s , and i think Macdaddy uses them, and has been for as long as i can remember. there aint too much to upgrade from on the DPA side of things. There pretty much is nowhere to go. I dont like the customer service at all, but were not talking about that. That statement you made is a generalization, and not entirely true.
DPAs are considered by many to be the top mic in its class, and most definitely an improvement over an at853, based on what ive heard around. Sound Pro makes solid products, and again, many folks use them for stealthing without ever upgrading.
Everyones different.

Ray

Exactly Ray but the guy your quoting is a user of the 4061's his point is why buy them from CS your just paying more  for the mics thru them and getting less. Hit up one of the other dealers and save yourself a headache.And yes they are the top mic in there class, Infact they give the big mics a run for there money when used properly.

Brad

True, brad. True. And i hear you Dan. Yall are both right.
+T I totally agree with the CS thing.  Len is not a nice guy, he will never get my money.

+Ts around
ray

[KingReptile]

CSBs are starter mics, If ya run something better in a few months you wont be able to stand those CSB tapes.I would personally wouldnt buy the Heb from Core Sound as your limited what ya can do with them..The dpa 4061's with the microdots allow you do many things MMA
6000 Preamp sweet piece or the Voltage adaptors they will let you run any of the XLR preamps sonamax etc..Sound pros has good stuff, but the AT 853s can be purchased elsewhere for the same price Leegdaddy can point ya in the right direction for them and explian why ya want the real 853's..My choice would be the AT853s if moneys tight if not go with the 4061's.If ya got a spool to blow the best fucking steath mic as far as Im concered is Schoeps Mk4's..Injection is nice but  I'd rather been blown .......

[Brendan]

i use At- 853C's> Ps-2> JB3   works great and i recommend them

[Steelcorner27]

i use At- 853C's> Ps-2> JB3   works great and i recommend them

I see you like your mics..thats good that set did me well. I'd like to hear what you've been doing with them PM me maybe we can set up a trade.

Brad

[F.O.Bean]

ahhh yes the beauty of dsd,.... you gotta have the player to do it!
I could post a small sample of a dsd>analog>pcm file, and it will will sound fine, but its not the same as the master playback.

cant go DSD>PCM digitally thats a HUGE bummer

[leegeddy]

Hey bud, this topic has been covered extensively on this board, though if you are beginning , Sound Professionals makes some great reasonably priced mics, as does Core Sounds.

Dont waste your money on anything from core sound or Sound Pro..It will be 2-3 months and you will be replacing them....Spend the extra coin now you will save later!!The AT 853's are smokin mic go with phantom power..

 +T for helpin the guy , but Some would beg to differ with you. The HEB from core sounds, I THINK are dpa 4060s 0r 1s , and i think Macdaddy uses them, and has been for as long as i can remember. there aint too much to upgrade from on the DPA side of things. There pretty much is nowhere to go. I dont like the customer service at all, but were not talking about that. That statement you made is a generalization, and not entirely true.
DPAs are considered by many to be the top mic in its class, and most definitely an improvement over an at853, based on what ive heard around. Sound Pro makes solid products, and again, many folks use them for stealthing without ever upgrading.
Everyones different.

Ray

i'd choose at853rx vs. dpa4061 any day of the week. the versatility of the switchable caps can NOT be matched by the omni 406x mics. 

here's a scenario:

you're stealthing a show at the MGM Grand Arena (+/- 12,000 seat) arena in Vegas. you're seated dead center on the floor in the arena which will be approximately 75' from the stage.  imho, dpa tape will sound BOOMY due to the room.

at853 with the hyper caps will do a much better job in attenuating the room reflections.  there's just no way an omni mic will yield a better recording in the scenario above.

i really like the sound of the dpa mics, but let's not kid ourselves and say that dpa4061 will always out perform the at853 when properly used.

in fact, i have taped many shows next to someone running dpa4060 mics. 9 out ot 10 times, my tapes always sounded better, cleaner and had more detail in the recording.

YMMV.

marc

[Steelcorner27]

 
 

i'd choose at853rx vs. dpa4061 any day of the week. the versatility of the switchable caps can NOT be matched by the omni 406x mics. 

here's a scenario:

you're stealthing a show at the MGM Grand Arena (+/- 12,000 seat) arena in Vegas. you're seated dead center on the floor in the arena which will be approximately 75' from the stage.  imho, dpa tape will sound BOOMY due to the room.

at853 with the hyper caps will do a much better job in attenuating the room reflections.  there's just no way an omni mic will yield a better recording in the scenario above.

i really like the sound of the dpa mics, but let's not kid ourselves and say that dpa4061 will always out perform the at853 when properly used.

in fact, i have taped many shows next to someone running dpa4060 mics. 9 out ot 10 times, my tapes always sounded better, cleaner and had more detail in the recording.

YMMV.

marc

Your scenario holds true and I guess If I didn't know ahead of time where my tickets would be located I wouldn't just bring a set of omnis with and the beauty of the 853 like my Audix's are that you can change caps, and for along time while I still owned my 853's I preached the same thing. so for many people who like to hang in the back by the soundboard (something I never quite understood) the dpa's arn't your mic, but for people like me who are rarly more than 30' away from the source they are,  I must say that from long distances as much as 160' away I pulled some very nice recordings with the 853's from that range the people standing next to you would be more clearly heard than the music using the omni's, but in the end I chose my Audix M1290's and then more recently the Audix ADX20d's over my 853's for all the reasons listed above and more. So I guees If you are unable to pre-select from a choice of mics ahead of time you best bring something that is versitle and for gods sake let some levels In!

Brad

[spyder9]

Hey bud, this topic has been covered extensively on this board, though if you are beginning , Sound Professionals makes some great reasonably priced mics, as does Core Sounds.

Dont waste your money on anything from core sound or Sound Pro..It will be 2-3 months and you will be replacing them....Spend the extra coin now you will save later!!The AT 853's are smokin mic go with phantom power..

 +T for helpin the guy , but Some would beg to differ with you. The HEB from core sounds, I THINK are dpa 4060s 0r 1s , and i think Macdaddy uses them, and has been for as long as i can remember. there aint too much to upgrade from on the DPA side of things. There pretty much is nowhere to go. I dont like the customer service at all, but were not talking about that. That statement you made is a generalization, and not entirely true.
DPAs are considered by many to be the top mic in its class, and most definitely an improvement over an at853, based on what ive heard around. Sound Pro makes solid products, and again, many folks use them for stealthing without ever upgrading.
Everyones different.

Ray

i'd choose at853rx vs. dpa4061 any day of the week. the versatility of the switchable caps can NOT be matched by the omni 406x mics. 

here's a scenario:

you're stealthing a show at the MGM Grand Arena (+/- 12,000 seat) arena in Vegas. you're seated dead center on the floor in the arena which will be approximately 75' from the stage.  imho, dpa tape will sound BOOMY due to the room.

at853 with the hyper caps will do a much better job in attenuating the room reflections.  there's just no way an omni mic will yield a better recording in the scenario above.

i really like the sound of the dpa mics, but let's not kid ourselves and say that dpa4061 will always out perform the at853 when properly used.

in fact, i have taped many shows next to someone running dpa4060 mics. 9 out ot 10 times, my tapes always sounded better, cleaner and had more detail in the recording.

YMMV.

marc

The AT853Rx's Hypers are the schnizzle!   Those caps are clutch with 2 outs and runners on the bases, IMHO.      

[KingReptile]

Hey bud, this topic has been covered extensively on this board, though if you are beginning , Sound Professionals makes some great reasonably priced mics, as does Core Sounds.

Dont waste your money on anything from core sound or Sound Pro..It will be 2-3 months and you will be replacing them....Spend the extra coin now you will save later!!The AT 853's are smokin mic go with phantom power..

 +T for helpin the guy , but Some would beg to differ with you. The HEB from core sounds, I THINK are dpa 4060s 0r 1s , and i think Macdaddy uses them, and has been for as long as i can remember. there aint too much to upgrade from on the DPA side of things. There pretty much is nowhere to go. I dont like the customer service at all, but were not talking about that. That statement you made is a generalization, and not entirely true.
DPAs are considered by many to be the top mic in its class, and most definitely an improvement over an at853, based on what ive heard around. Sound Pro makes solid products, and again, many folks use them for stealthing without ever upgrading.
Everyones different.

Ray

i'd choose at853rx vs. dpa4061 any day of the week. the versatility of the switchable caps can NOT be matched by the omni 406x mics. 

here's a scenario:

you're stealthing a show at the MGM Grand Arena (+/- 12,000 seat) arena in Vegas. you're seated dead center on the floor in the arena which will be approximately 75' from the stage.  imho, dpa tape will sound BOOMY due to the room.

at853 with the hyper caps will do a much better job in attenuating the room reflections.  there's just no way an omni mic will yield a better recording in the scenario above.

i really like the sound of the dpa mics, but let's not kid ourselves and say that dpa4061 will always out perform the at853 when properly used.

in fact, i have taped many shows next to someone running dpa4060 mics. 9 out ot 10 times, my tapes always sounded better, cleaner and had more detail in the recording.

YMMV.

marc

We will see Mark we will be side by side one day..That little preamp is the ticky for those 4061's clean as whistle...I have a 2 tapes to prove that from Charlotte My buddys At 853 against my 4061's...I do know which one sounds better lolllll...The only draw back on the 4061's is the crowd quiter shows and shitty venues.
Like Marc says tho for scenarios those AT 853s are nice for a good price.I have to say i like the Audix's hypers a lot ...
Are you gonna be around next wekend?? I was thinking about going to Savanah ?!!? I think you told me you were going to be out of town for bus..

Let Me Know

[johnw]

While the 4061s and 853s are both great stealth mics, lots of people have stealthed with the schoeps actives. Since you mentioned the 414s and 1000s in your post and might be interested in being able to run both a full size and stealth rig, you might want to consider holding off for the Peluso actives that are supposed to be coming out this fall. So far the Peluso mics are getting great reviews here and they would give you a lot of versatility for a price comparable to the 4061s. Just a thought.

[leegeddy]

Hey bud, this topic has been covered extensively on this board, though if you are beginning , Sound Professionals makes some great reasonably priced mics, as does Core Sounds.

Dont waste your money on anything from core sound or Sound Pro..It will be 2-3 months and you will be replacing them....Spend the extra coin now you will save later!!The AT 853's are smokin mic go with phantom power..

 +T for helpin the guy , but Some would beg to differ with you. The HEB from core sounds, I THINK are dpa 4060s 0r 1s , and i think Macdaddy uses them, and has been for as long as i can remember. there aint too much to upgrade from on the DPA side of things. There pretty much is nowhere to go. I dont like the customer service at all, but were not talking about that. That statement you made is a generalization, and not entirely true.
DPAs are considered by many to be the top mic in its class, and most definitely an improvement over an at853, based on what ive heard around. Sound Pro makes solid products, and again, many folks use them for stealthing without ever upgrading.
Everyones different.

Ray

i'd choose at853rx vs. dpa4061 any day of the week. the versatility of the switchable caps can NOT be matched by the omni 406x mics. 

here's a scenario:

you're stealthing a show at the MGM Grand Arena (+/- 12,000 seat) arena in Vegas. you're seated dead center on the floor in the arena which will be approximately 75' from the stage.  imho, dpa tape will sound BOOMY due to the room.

at853 with the hyper caps will do a much better job in attenuating the room reflections.  there's just no way an omni mic will yield a better recording in the scenario above.

i really like the sound of the dpa mics, but let's not kid ourselves and say that dpa4061 will always out perform the at853 when properly used.

in fact, i have taped many shows next to someone running dpa4060 mics. 9 out ot 10 times, my tapes always sounded better, cleaner and had more detail in the recording.

YMMV.

marc

We will see Mark we will be side by side one day..That little preamp is the ticky for those 4061's clean as whistle...I have a 2 tapes to prove that from Charlotte My buddys At 853 against my 4061's...I do know which one sounds better lolllll...The only draw back on the 4061's is the crowd quiter shows and shitty venues.
Like Marc says tho for scenarios those AT 853s are nice for a good price.I have to say i like the Audix's hypers a lot ...
Are you gonna be around next wekend?? I was thinking about going to Savanah ?!!? I think you told me you were going to be out of town for bus..

Let Me Know

tom;

the dpa preamp isn't going to help one bit attenuating rooms like Grady Cole Center or Asheville Civic Center in Charlotte and Asheville, respectively.   it's all about the mics' performance in various situations. that's why i stick to the versatility of the AT853 set.

marc

[F.O.Bean]

406x vs,... pretty much anything else mentioned here
remember, you're comparing something that is nearly invisible in the open, as compared to mics that are at least 10x the size, and maybe even 20x times larger in some cases.

If a room sounds like crap, and is nothing more than a bloated artificially pumped pa system, is it really worth recording in? If I have to go beyond cardioid for directionality to make a room sound ok, I'm not very interested in recording there.

i do it for the music being played in those crappy venues and to have a representation of the evening, not to make the 'best tape ever'

have you lost touch w/ the music mok3 and are you recording just to record

[F.O.Bean]

nahh,... quite the opposite. finally after so amny years of recording big, I'm finally doing my best work small. I've never been so in love with recording live music. I've just scaled it down now to the intimate gatherings.
Loud music and loud audience don't do it for me anymore.

I've only lost touch with being amongst 10k + other people, and have fallen deeply for recording in instances where the crowd might be one person beyond my presence as a recordist.
It sort of makes you intolerant of even the littlest of annoyances, like little old ladies reading there programs during the performance. So trying to extract anything from a toilet bowl of sound (read: generic bad halls) really doesn't do anything for me anymore.

I can make the snottiest of 24bit snots seem like lightweights when it gets down to what I like to record anymore. Acoustic music will do that to you.

well, nothing wrong w/ that buddy!

i am getting a bit sick and tired of drunk midiots at shows too, hell, I drink my face off but dont get silly

i love being the only taper, and youre not only helping the musicians and audiences out there, you mostly get more respect shown towards you also, and i like respect

[Chrysler]

i use the dpa 4060s >mma6000>sbm-1>d100 and already started another thread about stealth mics recently. I got the same problems that were already mentioned here.
I love the DPAs for quite concerts with good acoustics in the room.
However if i get too close to the boxes with the mics or the sound in the location is very lound/boomy/bassy they suck ass.

Are Attenuator cables a desirable solution for calming such environments? Are there any other alternatives to the AK853s for stealthing purpose? I'd spend $1500 max for a better set of stealth mics.

[Chrysler]

sure, this won't help much like someone already mentioned in this thread before. I noticed this limitation of the DPA 4060s  just last week again when i taped a concert of Tori Amos.
In the beginning i was seated on the gallery quite far away from the stage. After a few songs i moved to the very front - right in front of the stage.

I adapted the recording level to a lower level - naturally it is louder in the front (the sound was excellent there too) . The Result is that the recoring on the gallery sounds very ok whereas the recording in front sounds really bad - way to bassy because i was so close to the speakers. The HPF was turned on all of the time. The 4060s are too sensitive for close stage recordings...i just don't want to buy a set of 4061 - maybe anyone can make a better suggestion on other mics or a solution how to attenuate the 4060s (i already use the soft boost grids).

And if possible please make suggestions very quickly because i want to record Sigur Ros in two weeks time and i am seated in row 2 there ...don't wanna mess this recording.

[leegeddy]

i use the dpa 4060s >mma6000>sbm-1>d100 and already started another thread about stealth mics recently. I got the same problems that were already mentioned here.
I love the DPAs for quite concerts with good acoustics in the room.
However if i get too close to the boxes with the mics or the sound in the location is very lound/boomy/bassy they suck ass.

Are Attenuator cables a desirable solution for calming such environments? Are there any other alternatives to the AK853s for stealthing purpose? I'd spend $1500 max for a better set of stealth mics.

attenuators have nothing to do with a mic's pickup. if you're recording with omni directional mics, you'll pickup sound sources from all around you especially in the lower frequency. (although higher frequency pickup gets directional as the freq. goes up.)

this is probably why you hear descriptive words like "boomy" and "bassy" for omni recordings.  in a somewhat of a controlled setting (ie., open taping with stands, j-disc, split mics, various mic configuration, etc), omni mics can and will shine. but, in a stealth situation you can not control many of the variables like position, mic height and configuration. imho, the best method to offset adverse situation is to have versatile mics with changeable capsules so you can run cardioid from ~40' or less and hypers from ~40' or more. 

again, i bring up the scenario of recording from the middle of an 12,000 seat arena. you can be 75' from the stage and run hypers and results would probably be very good to great. running omni mics from the same position will 99% guarantee you a very "boomy" sounding recording. you will probably hear bass echo bouncing off the back of the arena, which definitely adds to the boominess.

to the folks who run dpa406x mics, pls. don't take my opinions personally. i'm not knocking the dpa mics as bad mics. on the contrary, they are fine pieces of acoustical engineering. but, their versatility is very limited imo in a stealth environment in contrast to the AT853 line.

my $.0002

marc

[Brendan]

i have a white stripes show that the guys rig was DPA4061 > MPS6010 > PCM-M1 (as an A/D) > NJB3 and it sounds really really good... will my At853C's> Ps-2>Jb3 sound as good? i sure hope so

[shaggy]

I agree with all of you, of course!  I am with Moke on the basic nature of the music and venue.  In more intimate settings, the DPA really are an awesome mic....you can't beat them for their tonal and transparent characteristics.  I find I enjoy taping smaller stuff anyway b/c there will always be tapers at the big shows (and eventually torrented).  Besides, I can only handle standing in one place for so long...in-stores are the way to go for that stuff (and it is free).  That said, I have run AT853Rx in the omni, cardioid and hypercard flavors....kinda of kicking myself for selling them last year.  The one thing about those mics is they have a weird high frequency tonal characteristic....sometimes I find them tiring to listen to, it is just something I have noticed with them....it seems less pronounced on the omni and more so as the directionality of the capsule increases.  Also, since they need a phantom supply, they are less stealthy.  But, I have to agree with Marc, if you are in a arena....you gotta be in the sweet spot with the DPAs or you will end up with mud.  The ATs offer heaps more flexibility with sacrificies to transient response (detail) and tonal oddness....of course having a recording a little off in those catagories is nothing like ending up with a muddy tape made with DPAs.  But since taping smaller shows with the DPAs and doing more acoustic and world music with them....I have fallen in love all over again with them.  Sometimes the odd noises and claps make me turn my head (like I forget I am wearing headphones), that is a testament of the amazing transparency of these mics.  Of course, YMMV.

[Chrysler]

hi,

thanks for the replies!!!!

i run the mics in this configuration currently:

Source: DPA 4060's > MMA6000 p/s, bass roll-off @ 100 kHz (> SBM-1 line-mod) > Sony D100 (44.1 Khz)
Transfer: Sony D100 > RMR-D100 (Coax Cable) > Audiophile 2096 (digital in) > WAV (through wavelab)
(Playback via PC > Denon 3801 Receiver > MB Quart Speakers)

I go to the concerts to WATCH the Band / Singer / whatever so its not an option for me to stand in the very back in louder concerts because i can make a better recording with the 4060s there. For acoustic sets the DPAs are incredible - i love them. So basically i'd need other grids than that are avail from DPA for calming the basses or buy AT853s.

Another question - if i upgrade my D100 to a 24 bit recorder - does it make sense still using the modSBM-1 prior to the new recorder (since this outputs a 16 bit signal)?

[TenoRichards]

DPA makes a high boost grid, but nothing to attenuate the bass.

What technique are you utilizing for stereo isolation with the mics when you record?
I am a strong advocate of baffling the mics from each other. This can be with a foam baffle between them, or your own head. The baffle supplies the means of isolation. While not total isolation, it does provide for probably 3dB of attenuation from the same signal, depending on amplitude of signal, and location of the signal source. For instance, it you take a test tone, and pan it right to left / left to right, the mics would be  hearing that tone at different volume intensities due to the baffle. That signal intensity difference translates into incredibly precise imaging in playback. The baffling also helps in taming the bass, though probably not as effective at controlling overamped, loud, panned to center, monster bass (which really isn't a natural bass tone). In the case of slamming amplitude of unnatural bass, your choices might be better in going to a directional mic and stereo patterns that roll off the bass more severely than omni patterns.

If you haven't already done so, please search HRTF Headband (ts.com thread title), Jecklin Disc vs. Spaced Omni (ts.com title), and a yahoo/google search for Otptimum Stereo Signal / OSS technique / Jurg Jecklin.
These are the baffled omni techniques that have really born themselves out for me thru may years of omni recording, of which a large focus was on bass heavy genre like reggae and the dead.

Moke, what exactly will the hi boost grid do for us? (I'm running 4060's>mic2496>jb3 or computer via Audigy notebook pcmcia @ 2496, btw.)

I have to chime in a love poem on the 4060's but haven't used the others. I'm forever playing recordings of performances for my colleagues and they can't believe what I'm getting. Granted, I don't use my tapes the same way you guys do, but for my purposes (learning and auditioning) day da bomb!

Andrew

www.tenorrichards.com

[TenoRichards]

yep. TAped by wife in 3 row dead center of hall. There are many other recording on the audio page, some old md stuff (carmen in italy) and most else w/ jb3/4060 combo. A few of the faust in Germany are w/ lappie @ 24 bit, and needless to say, I am losing SLEEP over getting the Trackerthangy. Sound Pros has them up now, except I'm moving to Berlin in a few weeks, so I don't know where to order: here or there...

www.tenorrichards.com/live.html

I'm not much at web design, and that's the first site I've ever built, so be nice guys...

+T to Moke for getting me into this stuff. And thanx for the info on the hi boost. I'll have to give them a try out in September when I return to perf'ing.

[Ray76]

Andrew, howdy.

Nice site, and nice recordings of course.

Holler at me when you get back and I will hook you up, taping-wise.

Some beers are in order too.

+T

Teddy

[Chrysler]

are no better directional miniature mics than the AT853's available on the market ??

[BuddyGoodness]

My head hurts from trying to read up on stealth mics.  Everyone seems to have a different opinion and I can't understand the slang.  I hate being the uninformed guy. 

[Ray76]

are no better directional miniature mics than the AT853's available on the market ??

I think most would say no. DPAs mini omnis are amazing, but as far as directional,,,AT is the heat...

I think the 4022s are small as well...not mini though.

you have schoeps as well...

[BuddyGoodness]

Well, I am wanting to get some stealth mics to tape Henry Rollins here on Sep 9th.  I will have around 300$ dollars to spend and I want to be able to record rock and metal bands with the mics as well (I have always wanted to tape Tool).  I am looking both the SP and CS mics but I keep reading about how great each one is on one post and how much they suck on the next.  From what I have read, I figure I need a battery box for the mics (preferably Phantom Power?).  I have a jb3 to record with, that is all the equiptment I own besides a camcorder.

[The Kilted Taper]

The CSSC's sound very tinny, at least to my ears. Not sure about the SP's. The good thing about the AT's is the switchable caps. Card, Sub, Hyber, Omni. Then you can use what's best for the room your in.

[BuddyGoodness]

Any AT mic in particular?  I think I have seen like four different kinds mentioned.

[Humbug]

Budget: SPCMC2 (AT831): cardioid caps only (not changeable)
Best sound: SPCMC4 (AT853): Card/hyper, sub-card caps available, no omnis
Flexibility: SPCMC8 (ES943s): card/omni/hyper (interchangeable caps)

Your choice, all sound great (to my ears). SPCMC4s can overload under high SPLs (with standard battery box, solution is to phantom power them), and I am testing the loaner pair of SPCMC6s (=CMC8s, but with Hyper caps) in a couple of weeks at high volume.

[~ Dan]

SPCMC4 (AT853): Card/hyper, sub-card caps available, no omnis

You should still be able to get the white omni's.  I just got some recently through Alpha Sound and they shipped directly from Audio Technica.

[Ray76]

im really curious about those countryman mics too..noones used em, but they are TINY, smaller than the DPA minis..

[The Kilted Taper]

SPCMC4 (AT853): Card/hyper, sub-card caps available, no omnis

You should still be able to get the white omni's.  I just got some recently through Alpha Sound and they shipped directly from Audio Technica.

Did the same as well. And there was some chat that the new Uni line caps should fit out AT853's.

[Humbug]

You should still be able to get the white omni's.  I just got some recently through Alpha Sound and they shipped directly from Audio Technica.

Oh are they? Cool. I just have a problem equating white caps with stealthing 

[The Kilted Taper]

You should still be able to get the white omni's.  I just got some recently through Alpha Sound and they shipped directly from Audio Technica.

Oh are they? Cool. I just have a problem equating white caps with stealthing 

Wear them in a black hat, and your good to go.  You could always paint them. The elastic bands I have in my hat are actually whire as well.

[spyder9]

Budget: SPCMC2 (AT831): cardioid caps only (not changeable)
Best sound: SPCMC4 (AT853): Card/hyper, sub-card caps available, no omnis
Flexibility: SPCMC8 (ES943s): card/omni/hyper (interchangeable caps)

Your choice, all sound great (to my ears). SPCMC4s can overload under high SPLs (with standard battery box, solution is to phantom power them), and I am testing the loaner pair of SPCMC6s (=CMC8s, but with Hyper caps) in a couple of weeks at high volume.

Get the factory-made AT853RX's.  Better sounding than the SP models, because they are phantom powered.  You can get them BFN for $280 shipped if you look hard enough on the 'net.  All you have to do is have someone here on the board mod the cable from 25' to 6'.

[The Kilted Taper]

All you have to do is have someone here on the board mod the cable from 25' to 6'.

This is actually quite easy to do your self. No soldering or anything. The wires are just held in place my screws.

[audBall]

Get the factory-made AT853RX's.  Better sounding than the SP models, because they are phantom powered.  You can get them BFN for $280 shipped if you look hard enough on the 'net.  All you have to do is have someone here on the board mod the cable from 25' to 6'.

I just wanted to note here that you can get the phantom 'kit' option from SP.  I did that w/ my 943s so I have the option of phantom or not, depending on how much gear I want to carry.  However, costwise and apparently soundwise, the 853Rx is the way to go. If this talk that the new uniline's caps will work with the 853s they seem like the best overall option.

[BuddyGoodness]

Thanks for everyone's help.  I will probably not buy them for a few weeks but I appreciate the suggestions.

[Chrysler]

As mentioned before by someone else DPA will be releasing directional miniature mics in about 1-2 month. I will be waiting for these..

[WiFiJeff]

As mentioned before by someone else DPA will be releasing directional miniature mics in about 1-2 month. I will be waiting for these..

a new mini directional?

Yes.  I was the one who posted this, after emailing DPA.  They put out a headset cardioid last year with lots of bass roll-off to compensate for designed placement an inch or two from the mouth, absolutely not good for any distance recording.  I was told to email again in October, as they expected to be releasing the first of what might be several cardioid minimics with the 4060 form-factor, no word yet on whether the DPA MMA6000 will power them but I would expect some compatibility.  I'm very hopeful.  I also emailed Peluso, since Nick's review of their new mics mentioned a possible mini cardioid, no response at all from Peluso.

Jeff

[Ray76]

thanks!
I knew of the headset card, and its incompatability for our usage. thats why I was wondering about something new.
That would be sweet if they were compatible with the mma6000!
+ to ya for the info.

MOKE AND CARDS!!