Topic: AKG 460, mod 460, 480, comparison

[johnw]

I periodically get emails from people asking about the difference between the 460s before and after I got the mod done. Since I changed from a UA5 to a MiniMe at the same time, I can't tell what difference in sound quality is due to the mics alone. I will say that I was happy with the 460s>DIY UA5 and the difference from JWmod460s>MME isn't that draumatic IMHO. I do remember one post where someone was under the impression that the JWmod increases the sensitivity of the mics draumatically and this is definitely not true.

Ideally what I think would answer everyone's questions would be to get an Edirol R4 and run stock 460s into channels 1&2 and mod460s into 3&4 using the same caps, cables, configuration and location (ie both ORTF on the same stand at about the same height). It would also be nice to run a similar comparison with the 480s and mod 460s and maybe even a JKlabs setup.

Does this sound like a good idea? Would anyone else be willing to lend out an R4 or mics?

[thegreatgumbino]

Just missed your post while I was posting my own JW mod thread (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=48168.0)    I'd love to hear some of these comps.  I've read several posts that the JW mod 460's outshine the 480's, but not heard it myself. 

I'm really curious as to what pre/adc is the ideal match with the JW mod 460's.

[F.O.Bean]

been dying to know/have the same comp results

ive been teetering on buying 460 bodies and getting them modded, but cant bring myself to do it right now w/ the out of hand money, i would ideally like to A/B/switch out bodies for two set shows and see which i like better! and then sell the bodies i dont prefer, rather than selling the 480 bodies and then not noticing a huge difference

what im ideally after is that akg sonics from the 480's, but w/ not so much of that high-end bite! just a tad calmer in the highs is what i want, not much, just a tad!

[dgodwin]

Assuming I finally get one of the teaching jobs I've been interviewing for, I'll be sending my 460's to be modded in late september or early october.  If you haven't found anyone to loan you a set Bean, you'll be more than welcome to try mine once I get them. 

[Tim]

IF YOU HAVEN'T LISTENED TO MOKE"S COMP YET STOP READING












I just had my first taste of the mod-460's and they seemed a bit hyped in the mid-hi's and the high end... not as smooth as the dpa's in the comp

[dgodwin]

agreed, while I'll get the jw mod on my 460's (can't afford dpas) I liked the 4022 recording better. 

[johnw]

IF YOU HAVEN'T LISTENED TO MOKE"S COMP YET STOP READING

I just had my first taste of the mod-460's and they seemed a bit hyped in the mid-hi's and the high end... not as smooth as the dpa's in the comp

Tim I have no idea what this has to do with comparing the mod460s to stock 460s or 480s. I wouldn't expect them to sound like the DPAs and I've only seen one post where someone thought they sounded similar. I believe that same person also said that the ck1x caps that were used tend to exaggerate the high end. On the other hand, I have seen plenty of posts from people thinking about buying 460s wondering about how they sound compared to stock and 480s. I also wouldn't expect the mod Octavas to sound like schoeps or Neumanns 

[Tim]

huh?

It was just a comment on the overall quality of the mod 460's... so in that sense it had a lot to do with the comparison. I'll be more explicit for you next time 

 

they sound great, way beyond their price range.

[johnw]

huh?

It was just a comment on the overall quality of the mod 460's... so in that sense it had a lot to do with the comparison. I'll be more explicit for you next time 

I started this thread to gauge interest in doing a true A-B comparison of the mod460 to the 460 and 480. The reason I am interested in doing this is because it seems like quite a few people have picked up 460s recently and there seems to be a belief that the 460, when modded, sounds equal to or better than the 480s. Perhaps my first post wasn't very explicit and the goal of testing this belief didn't come across, but an A-B comparison to DPAs with a critique of the 460s based on that comparison doesn't tell me much about how these compare to the 480s. Also, I suspect that the capsule (ck1x) might have colored your overall impression of the microphone and since it is pretty hard to come by, I would think that the ck61 might be a better choice for any comparison. Hope that makes more sense.

I agree that these sound great and beyond their price range. +T and thanks for sharing your opions. 

[EA]

I don't think that the mod 460's and the 480's sound anything alike. Not one better than the other...just different sounds. Two different animals really. Everyone insists on trying to compare them though. But the mod 460's are far superior to stock 460's. No freakin' doubt. If you like transparent, super detailed mics (the "high speed sound"), the mod 460's are the way to go. But not everyone likes that sound. It's like V3 Vs. Mme. Different sounds for different tastes.

[thegreatgumbino]

I started this thread to gauge interest in doing a true A-B comparison of the mod460 to the 460 and 480. The reason I am interested in doing this is because it seems like quite a few people have picked up 460s recently and there seems to be a belief that the 460, when modded, sounds equal to or better than the 480s. Perhaps my first post wasn't very explicit and the goal of testing this belief didn't come across, but an A-B comparison to DPAs with a critique of the 460s based on that comparison doesn't tell me much about how these compare to the 480s. Also, I suspect that the capsule (ck1x) might have colored your overall impression of the microphone and since it is pretty hard to come by, I would think that the ck61 might be a better choice for any comparison. Hope that makes more sense.

I agree that these sound great and beyond their price range. +T and thanks for sharing your opions. 

I've read several posts where people think the ck6 series caps have better sound than the ckxx caps, albeit minimal difference when you gain the ability to run actives.  Also read a few that say the active cables make the ckxx a bit brighter than with out the actives.  Haven't heard a comp myself, but taking these statements, I'd say that the ck6 caps would be to my liking over the ck1x.  Moke's mod 460 sounded a tad bright to me through the V3 compared to the DPA.  Not bad, just brighter comparitively.  I think if the ck6 series is a bit warmer than the ck1x series, it could sound damn fine with the V3.  I already know the ck6 series sounds damn fine with the T+mod. 

So, in short, I think a comp of the JW mod 460 with the ck1x & ck6 caps and the 480's would be ideal.  The ck1x's are harder to come buy, but if I'm dreaming might as well dream big right?

[johnw]

I've read several posts where people think the ck6 series caps have better sound than the ckxx caps, albeit minimal difference when you gain the ability to run actives.  Also read a few that say the active cables make the ckxx a bit brighter than with out the actives.

The problem is that there were 3 ck1 capsules. The ck1, ck1s and ck1x. Both the ck1 and ck1s have freq response curves available, but the only thing available about the ck1x is the technical data, which is different from the ck1. The ck1s definitely has a bump in the high end that AKG calls "presence" but no technical data available. I believe that all 3 capsules likely have subtle differences from each other and are definitely different from the ck61 not only in the response curves/technical data, but also that the ck1 caps are all FET whereas the ck61 is a true condenser cap. If anything, I would suspect that the ck1x cap sounds like the ck91 since it is also a FET cap. I think that the ck1s may be the one that people think of as bright, but without a curve on the ck1x, who knows? It would be great to AB all four, but like you said, it is darn hard to find the ck1x and ck1s caps.

If anyone wants to look at the ck1 cap specs, I can post them or you can go to the AKG site and download the zip file that contains gif images of all three ck1 caps.

[ts]

How do you tell the difference between the 3 caps? I have 3 ck1x caps, at least I think they are all x caps. 2 have the same shape(cone) and one is more of a funnel shape. None of them have any markings, other than ck1 and  one has a 4 digit serial #. That would be a bummer if I'm recording with one x and one s cap.

edit. after looking at the AKG website archive, looks like I have 3 CK1x caps, one being a slightly different shape, as like the one in the picture archive.

[johnw]

Only the ck1x caps have the lemo connection - the other two are threaded and a totally different shape. I'd say you would definitely know the difference. Congrats on having 3 of those bad boys!

[tfrench]

Anyone seen the 460's with horizontal switches?

[thegreatgumbino]

Anyone seen the 460's with horizontal switches?

+T for the pic, tfrench!  I've never seen one of the bodies with the 3 horizontal switches.  FYI, JW told me that if you want to go the JW mod route on the 460's he prefers to do it on the mics with one vertical switch and not the 3 horizontal.  AKG made the change some time around serial #9,000 from what JW told me.  I don't know for sure if he can still do the JW mod on the one's with 3 switches or not, just remember him urging me to find ones with the one vertical switch.

[JAH]

I can say this about the 460mod Vs the 480...Both hydropanic and I ran mod 461>mme and 481>mme for the Brothers in Nissan....A quick test on the ride home resulted in the mod 460's being more open...maybe almost brighter...I need to get his copy and do a real listen...but we both had the same preception.  The sound is definately different. Both sounded good.

peace
jah

[tfrench]

+T for the pic, tfrench!  I've never seen one of the bodies with the 3 horizontal switches.  FYI, JW told me that if you want to go the JW mod route on the 460's he prefers to do it on the mics with one vertical switch and not the 3 horizontal.  AKG made the change some time around serial #9,000 from what JW told me.  I don't know for sure if he can still do the JW mod on the one's with 3 switches or not, just remember him urging me to find ones with the one vertical switch.

Thanks for that information ........... I emailed AKG about the 3 horizontal switches to see what they had to say.  The JW question was next on my list....+T to you!

[EA]

How do you tell the difference between the 3 caps? I have 3 ck1x caps, at least I think they are all x caps. 2 have the same shape(cone) and one is more of a funnel shape. None of them have any markings, other than ck1 and  one has a 4 digit serial #. That would be a bummer if I'm recording with one x and one s cap.

edit. after looking at the AKG website archive, looks like I have 3 CK1x caps, one being a slightly different shape, as like the one in the picture archive.

Are you sure you don't have just regular ck1 caps that have the adaptor to make 'em fit 460's? The adaptors would make them rather "cone shaped".

[d5]

I don't think that the mod 460's and the 480's sound anything alike. Not one better than the other...just different sounds. Two different animals really. Everyone insists on trying to compare them though. But the mod 460's are far superior to stock 460's. No freakin' doubt. If you like transparent, super detailed mics (the "high speed sound"), the mod 460's are the way to go. But not everyone likes that sound. It's like V3 Vs. Mme. Different sounds for different tastes.

I've never heard an A/B of mod 460's vs. 480's, so I can't comment. But I do agree with the above that mod 460's are transparent and detailed and this is a big improvement over the stock 460's. JW compared the mod to when your driving up a mountain and your ears pop. Another effect of the mod is extended bass response and when talking to JW about the mod, he stressed the need really good wind screens.

[goose]

I've read several posts where people think the ck6 series caps have better sound than the ckxx caps, albeit minimal difference when you gain the ability to run actives. Also read a few that say the active cables make the ckxx a bit brighter than with out the actives.

The problem is that there were 3 ck1 capsules. The ck1, ck1s and ck1x. Both the ck1 and ck1s have freq response curves available, but the only thing available about the ck1x is the technical data, which is different from the ck1. The ck1s definitely has a bump in the high end that AKG calls "presence" but no technical data available. I believe that all 3 capsules likely have subtle differences from each other and are definitely different from the ck61 not only in the response curves/technical data, but also that the ck1 caps are all FET whereas the ck61 is a true condenser cap. If anything, I would suspect that the ck1x cap sounds like the ck91 since it is also a FET cap. I think that the ck1s may be the one that people think of as bright, but without a curve on the ck1x, who knows? It would be great to AB all four, but like you said, it is darn hard to find the ck1x and ck1s caps.

Just for clarification, my AKG documentation for the ck1x caps show that they are a true condenser, NOT a FET capsule.

[JAH]

I've read several posts where people think the ck6 series caps have better sound than the ckxx caps, albeit minimal difference when you gain the ability to run actives. Also read a few that say the active cables make the ckxx a bit brighter than with out the actives.

The problem is that there were 3 ck1 capsules. The ck1, ck1s and ck1x. Both the ck1 and ck1s have freq response curves available, but the only thing available about the ck1x is the technical data, which is different from the ck1. The ck1s definitely has a bump in the high end that AKG calls "presence" but no technical data available. I believe that all 3 capsules likely have subtle differences from each other and are definitely different from the ck61 not only in the response curves/technical data, but also that the ck1 caps are all FET whereas the ck61 is a true condenser cap. If anything, I would suspect that the ck1x cap sounds like the ck91 since it is also a FET cap. I think that the ck1s may be the one that people think of as bright, but without a curve on the ck1x, who knows? It would be great to AB all four, but like you said, it is darn hard to find the ck1x and ck1s caps.

Just for clarification, my AKG documentation for the ck1x caps show that they are a true condenser, NOT a FET capsule.

perplexing...I'll have to look at my sheets on the ckx caps...as I really believe that they are FET caps as they need it to push it over the wire. I've bought parts for them too...  no big deal either way but i can check my papers this weekend cause my folder is at home.

peace
jah

[JAH]

just checked the file and it shows them as FET based...actualy there were 3 different configurations of fet boards..the orig, then one w/ RF decoupling caps and a drop down R (orig must have been too sensitive), then a third to correct the phase difference from when they switched from electret membrane to back electret technique.

another bit of useless knowledge 

peace
jah

[ts]

I don't think that the mod 460's and the 480's sound anything alike. Not one better than the other...just different sounds. Two different animals really. Everyone insists on trying to compare them though. But the mod 460's are far superior to stock 460's. No freakin' doubt. If you like transparent, super detailed mics (the "high speed sound"), the mod 460's are the way to go. But not everyone likes that sound. It's like V3 Vs. Mme. Different sounds for different tastes.

I've never heard an A/B of mod 460's vs. 480's, so I can't comment. But I do agree with the above that mod 460's are transparent and detailed and this is a big improvement over the stock 460's. JW compared the mod to when your driving up a mountain and your ears pop. Another effect of the mod is extended bass response and when talking to JW about the mod, he stressed the need really good wind screens.

Iv'e only used my modded 460's once, but the ear popping thing is a pretty good, straight forward description. What about his windscreen comment? Could you elaborate on that a bit? Good beefy screens just attenuate the highs even more. Is he saying that the mod can make them a tad bright and that "good screens" will compensate for it. After one use(large DPA screens on CK1x caps) I didn't think they were bright enough. Just my opinion.

Tony

[d5]

I don't think that the mod 460's and the 480's sound anything alike. Not one better than the other...just different sounds. Two different animals really. Everyone insists on trying to compare them though. But the mod 460's are far superior to stock 460's. No freakin' doubt. If you like transparent, super detailed mics (the "high speed sound"), the mod 460's are the way to go. But not everyone likes that sound. It's like V3 Vs. Mme. Different sounds for different tastes.

I've never heard an A/B of mod 460's vs. 480's, so I can't comment. But I do agree with the above that mod 460's are transparent and detailed and this is a big improvement over the stock 460's. JW compared the mod to when your driving up a mountain and your ears pop. Another effect of the mod is extended bass response and when talking to JW about the mod, he stressed the need really good wind screens.

Iv'e only used my modded 460's once, but the ear popping thing is a pretty good, straight forward description. What about his windscreen comment? Could you elaborate on that a bit? Good beefy screens just attenuate the highs even more. Is he saying that the mod can make them a tad bright and that "good screens" will compensate for it. After one use(large DPA screens on CK1x caps) I didn't think they were bright enough. Just my opinion.

Tony

The comment wasn't directed at the high end response, but instead it was meant when using the mic's outdoors... I should have been clearer.  There is a high level of low-frequency energy in wind noise and the mod considerably extends the bass response. This makes the need for good windscreens more important when using the mic's outdoors.

[ts]

I don't think that the mod 460's and the 480's sound anything alike. Not one better than the other...just different sounds. Two different animals really. Everyone insists on trying to compare them though. But the mod 460's are far superior to stock 460's. No freakin' doubt. If you like transparent, super detailed mics (the "high speed sound"), the mod 460's are the way to go. But not everyone likes that sound. It's like V3 Vs. Mme. Different sounds for different tastes.

I've never heard an A/B of mod 460's vs. 480's, so I can't comment. But I do agree with the above that mod 460's are transparent and detailed and this is a big improvement over the stock 460's. JW compared the mod to when your driving up a mountain and your ears pop. Another effect of the mod is extended bass response and when talking to JW about the mod, he stressed the need really good wind screens.

Iv'e only used my modded 460's once, but the ear popping thing is a pretty good, straight forward description. What about his windscreen comment? Could you elaborate on that a bit? Good beefy screens just attenuate the highs even more. Is he saying that the mod can make them a tad bright and that "good screens" will compensate for it. After one use(large DPA screens on CK1x caps) I didn't think they were bright enough. Just my opinion.

Tony

The comment wasn't directed at the high end response, but instead it was meant when using the mic's outdoors... I should have been clearer.  There is a high level of low-frequency energy in wind noise and the mod considerably extends the bass response. This makes the need for good windscreens more important when using the mic's outdoors.

No, you didn't need to be clearer. I didn't read your post closely enough, more focused on the ear popping remark. You did mention bass response and wind screen in the same sentence. My bad.

[d5]

Another funny remark by JW... took me a little time to find this one on rec.audio.pro

The AKG 460 will respond down to a few hertz once the output
transformer is removed. Air blasts pick up quite well. If you have a DC
or 2 hz response of the playback system, you can watch the woofers pump
in and out as you move the mic forwards and backwards.

Makes for really tight and deep bass, just watch out for wind! (And
subways)

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.audio.pro/browse_thread/thread/6a0c07bd109e1271/c37678d82cd86465?lnk=st&q=jim+williams+akg+460&rnum=8&hl=en#c37678d82cd86465

[goose]

just checked the file and it shows them as FET based...actualy there were 3 different configurations of fet boards..the orig, then one w/ RF decoupling caps and a drop down R (orig must have been too sensitive), then a third to correct the phase difference from when they switched from electret membrane to back electret technique.

another bit of useless knowledge

peace
jah

The "User Instructions" that came with my CK1X capsules read: "Permanently charged condenser capsule design in well-proven CMS technology."  It also has the polar response grids and the technical data for the capsules.  If you don't have one already, it may be good info for your file.

I don't see any reference to FET in the booklet, but then again, I don't understand that stuff very well.

[JAH]

just checked the file and it shows them as FET based...actualy there were 3 different configurations of fet boards..the orig, then one w/ RF decoupling caps and a drop down R (orig must have been too sensitive), then a third to correct the phase difference from when they switched from electret membrane to back electret technique.

another bit of useless knowledge

peace
jah

The "User Instructions" that came with my CK1X capsules read: "Permanently charged condenser capsule design in well-proven CMS technology."  It also has the polar response grids and the technical data for the capsules.  If you don't have one already, it may be good info for your file.

I don't see any reference to FET in the booklet, but then again, I don't understand that stuff very well.

Permanetly charged???  No Idea what that means or what cms is as long as you like 'em that's what counts 

[bluegrass_brad]

just checked the file and it shows them as FET based...actualy there were 3 different configurations of fet boards..the orig, then one w/ RF decoupling caps and a drop down R (orig must have been too sensitive), then a third to correct the phase difference from when they switched from electret membrane to back electret technique.

another bit of useless knowledge

peace
jah

The "User Instructions" that came with my CK1X capsules read: "Permanently charged condenser capsule design in well-proven CMS technology."  It also has the polar response grids and the technical data for the capsules.  If you don't have one already, it may be good info for your file.

I don't see any reference to FET in the booklet, but then again, I don't understand that stuff very well.

Permanetly charged???  No Idea what that means or what cms is as long as you like 'em that's what counts 

Permanantly charged is referring to the style of electret condensor.. ie. Permanantly Charged Back Electret. Instead of getting an electrical charge to the microphone capsule with phantom, these electret mics diaphragm's are made from a material that has a permanent electrical charge. You still need a body to act as a preamp and alot of these were run off battery (an example would be the NAK CM300's or the Senn ME).  So with the AKG's the active head is permantly charged and the 48v is really only operating the body. I got this info straight from AKG.  My understanding from the email that is the way they had to be. Something about the bodies not originally being made to support an active head.  I sent along a bunch of questions to them once (My main question was if they still serviced any of the active components, which unfortunately they no longer do).  But all P.C. Back electrets arent like the NAK and Senn (mid level mics).  They have some very quality ones as well, I found a website which enlightend me to the fact that a bunch of B&K mics were back electret, the Shure KSM32 is also back electret, The Crown CM700, also mics like the AKGC-1000 (which is more at the level of the NAK 300 and the Senn's).

[JAH]

just checked the file and it shows them as FET based...actualy there were 3 different configurations of fet boards..the orig, then one w/ RF decoupling caps and a drop down R (orig must have been too sensitive), then a third to correct the phase difference from when they switched from electret membrane to back electret technique.

another bit of useless knowledge

peace
jah

The "User Instructions" that came with my CK1X capsules read: "Permanently charged condenser capsule design in well-proven CMS technology."  It also has the polar response grids and the technical data for the capsules.  If you don't have one already, it may be good info for your file.

I don't see any reference to FET in the booklet, but then again, I don't understand that stuff very well.

Permanetly charged???  No Idea what that means or what cms is as long as you like 'em that's what counts 

Permanantly charged is referring to the style of electret condensor.. ie. Permanantly Charged Back Electret. Instead of getting an electrical charge to the microphone capsule with phantom, these electret mics diaphragm's are made from a material that has a permanent electrical charge. You still need a body to act as a preamp and alot of these were run off battery (an example would be the NAK CM300's or the Senn ME).  So with the AKG's the active head is permantly charged and the 48v is really only operating the body. I got this info straight from AKG.  My understanding from the email that is the way they had to be. Something about the bodies not originally being made to support an active head.  I sent along a bunch of questions to them once (My main question was if they still serviced any of the active components, which unfortunately they no longer do).  But all P.C. Back electrets arent like the NAK and Senn (mid level mics).  They have some very quality ones as well, I found a website which enlightend me to the fact that a bunch of B&K mics were back electret, the Shure KSM32 is also back electret, The Crown CM700, also mics like the AKGC-1000 (which is more at the level of the NAK 300 and the Senn's).

I was thinking something along those line but, dynamic came to mind if a phantom was not required.  So I just left it at "I don't know"  I thought all condensors of today were back electric, meaning the charge is on the back plate vice the diaphram...just a thought out of ingnorance ;-)

thanks for the info.

[ts]

I don't think that the mod 460's and the 480's sound anything alike. Not one better than the other...just different sounds. Two different animals really. Everyone insists on trying to compare them though. But the mod 460's are far superior to stock 460's. No freakin' doubt. If you like transparent, super detailed mics (the "high speed sound"), the mod 460's are the way to go. But not everyone likes that sound. It's like V3 Vs. Mme. Different sounds for different tastes.

I've never heard an A/B of mod 460's vs. 480's, so I can't comment. But I do agree with the above that mod 460's are transparent and detailed and this is a big improvement over the stock 460's. JW compared the mod to when your driving up a mountain and your ears pop. Another effect of the mod is extended bass response and when talking to JW about the mod, he stressed the need really good wind screens.

Iv'e only used my modded 460's once, but the ear popping thing is a pretty good, straight forward description. What about his windscreen comment? Could you elaborate on that a bit? Good beefy screens just attenuate the highs even more. Is he saying that the mod can make them a tad bright and that "good screens" will compensate for it. After one use(large DPA screens on CK1x caps) I didn't think they were bright enough. Just my opinion.

Tony

I've used the JWmod 460's a bunch of times now, with both the CK1x caps and the CK61 and 63's. My comment about not being bright enough was way wrong. I'm still on the fence about stock 460's or modded ones. It may be that the JW 460's>V3 is not the best combo, but the JW 460's sound like stock 460's on steroids, if you know what I mean. The low end is very nice and full, much better than the stocks, but the high end is very bright, fatiguing to listen to at high volumes. I used the big Shure wind screens and at outdoor show and it helped tremendously with the bright highs, but it would look kinda stupid using them indoors.

[sygdwm]

i dont think it looks stupid running big screeens indoors. it helps w/ HVAC systems and esp. smoke.  i ran my dpa screens ALWAYS.

[Brian Skalinder]

i dont think it looks stupid running big screeens indoors. it helps w/ HVAC systems and esp. smoke. i ran my dpa screens ALWAYS.

Agreed.  And besides - who cares what it looks like, as long as you're happy with the result?

[johnw]

I don't think that the mod 460's and the 480's sound anything alike. Not one better than the other...just different sounds. Two different animals really. Everyone insists on trying to compare them though. But the mod 460's are far superior to stock 460's. No freakin' doubt. If you like transparent, super detailed mics (the "high speed sound"), the mod 460's are the way to go. But not everyone likes that sound. It's like V3 Vs. Mme. Different sounds for different tastes.

I've never heard an A/B of mod 460's vs. 480's, so I can't comment. But I do agree with the above that mod 460's are transparent and detailed and this is a big improvement over the stock 460's. JW compared the mod to when your driving up a mountain and your ears pop. Another effect of the mod is extended bass response and when talking to JW about the mod, he stressed the need really good wind screens.

Iv'e only used my modded 460's once, but the ear popping thing is a pretty good, straight forward description. What about his windscreen comment? Could you elaborate on that a bit? Good beefy screens just attenuate the highs even more. Is he saying that the mod can make them a tad bright and that "good screens" will compensate for it. After one use(large DPA screens on CK1x caps) I didn't think they were bright enough. Just my opinion.

Tony

I've used the JWmod 460's a bunch of times now, with both the CK1x caps and the CK61 and 63's. My comment about not being bright enough was way wrong. I'm still on the fence about stock 460's or modded ones. It may be that the JW 460's>V3 is not the best combo, but the JW 460's sound like stock 460's on steroids, if you know what I mean. The low end is very nice and full, much better than the stocks, but the high end is very bright, fatiguing to listen to at high volumes. I used the big Shure wind screens and at outdoor show and it helped tremendously with the bright highs, but it would look kinda stupid using them indoors.

Maybe try a warmer preamp?

[ts]

I don't think that the mod 460's and the 480's sound anything alike. Not one better than the other...just different sounds. Two different animals really. Everyone insists on trying to compare them though. But the mod 460's are far superior to stock 460's. No freakin' doubt. If you like transparent, super detailed mics (the "high speed sound"), the mod 460's are the way to go. But not everyone likes that sound. It's like V3 Vs. Mme. Different sounds for different tastes.

I've never heard an A/B of mod 460's vs. 480's, so I can't comment. But I do agree with the above that mod 460's are transparent and detailed and this is a big improvement over the stock 460's. JW compared the mod to when your driving up a mountain and your ears pop. Another effect of the mod is extended bass response and when talking to JW about the mod, he stressed the need really good wind screens.

Iv'e only used my modded 460's once, but the ear popping thing is a pretty good, straight forward description. What about his windscreen comment? Could you elaborate on that a bit? Good beefy screens just attenuate the highs even more. Is he saying that the mod can make them a tad bright and that "good screens" will compensate for it. After one use(large DPA screens on CK1x caps) I didn't think they were bright enough. Just my opinion.

Tony

I've used the JWmod 460's a bunch of times now, with both the CK1x caps and the CK61 and 63's. My comment about not being bright enough was way wrong. I'm still on the fence about stock 460's or modded ones. It may be that the JW 460's>V3 is not the best combo, but the JW 460's sound like stock 460's on steroids, if you know what I mean. The low end is very nice and full, much better than the stocks, but the high end is very bright, fatiguing to listen to at high volumes. I used the big Shure wind screens and at outdoor show and it helped tremendously with the bright highs, but it would look kinda stupid using them indoors.

Maybe try a warmer preamp?

I like the V3 way too much. Id' go back to stock 460's first. I really liked that combo. The CK6x caps don't seem to be as bright as the CK1x caps and the big screens did help. Maybe the perfect answer would be to pick up a pair of unmodded 460 bodies just for use with the CK1x caps and use the JW's with the CK6x caps. 

[thegreatgumbino]

I like the V3 way too much. Id' go back to stock 460's first. I really liked that combo. The CK6x caps don't seem to be as bright as the CK1x caps and the big screens did help. Maybe the perfect answer would be to pick up a pair of unmodded 460 bodies just for use with the CK1x caps and use the JW's with the CK6x caps. 

Fozzy's got yer stock 460 bodies for sale.  You might see if he'll work a deal for you.

[thegreatgumbino]

Hopefully, OFOTD and I will be able to perform this comparison at ACL in a couple weeks.  I picked up a second pair of stock 461's, my other pair are in JW's hands for the mod as we speak.  OFOTD run 480's.  We're hoping to run 460 / JW mod 460 / 480 > MiAGi silvers > V3 comparisions.  We'll see how it goes.  Anyone attending ACL that has MiAGi silvers > V3 that wants to help out with the comparision for a set or two?

[thegreatgumbino]

m148

[Chuck]

m148

What he said

[johnw]

An MP2 might warm it up also and is even cheaper.

[Chris K]

An MP2 might warm it up also and is even cheaper.

word

mp-2 > modSBM-1

 

[goose]

I think the brick is in a league of it's own, and the psp-2 is merely a very nice preamp, nothing great. the oade smokes it imho, the psp-2 might be a distant cousin but not really a little brother so to speak

save up the extra scratch and getta brick!

i like the 148 better also, but it's like comparing the t-mod+ ua5 to the v3.
psp2 > t-mod+ ua5 = ~$1000
148 > v3 = ~$2200

for me & my limited budget (i.e college student) it's a no brainer. for everyone with real jobs, maybe the 148>v3 is the better choice. my overall goal is to have the ability run transparent when i want to, or warm up the rig when i want to by running the eaa. the psp2 allows me to do that & the fact i can use it when i stealth tape is an added bonus. hell, i just sent my w-mod ua5 in today so i can get it (+) modded by doug. i want to see how that sounds compared to the psp2>t-mod+ recordings, & 148>mod sbm1 recordings i have. not many people have the (+) mod applied to their w-mod, & i'm hoping that it solves the minor "bloatiness" i hear with the straight w-mod.
 
tim

Tim,

I find it funny that you say you are on a budget, but have 3 sets of mics, 2 Oade +mod UA5s, silver cables, and probably multiple capture devices.  You could easily sell some of that equipment to cover the difference in prices between desired preamps. 

I think you may have a different opinion of the m148/psp2 comparison when you have actually run both with your equipment, rather than just listening to tapes using the preamps.  I have found that to be true, at least.

YMMV

[spyder9]

Goose,

Timbo is just a nasty slut!   

[ts]

what does a psp2 look like?

[Kindguy]

In a few weeks I hope to test the mod 460's vs the 480's.

I'll also switch up & test the actives with the 1x cards.

I just need to borrow a set of 61 caps & 148 from someone. if anyone is willing please let me know.

mod461>148>ad500
481> 148>ad500
mod460's>active>1x >148>ad500

edit: I also have a mod SBM-1 but would need to borrow another one to put in place of the ad500's if that comp sounds better. But the less I have to borrow the better IMO.

[thegreatgumbino]

Just finished an at home comparision of the stock 460's, JW Mod 460's, and the 480's.  Let us know what you think.

BT is available in the Kickdown section:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52183.msg679735#msg679735

[thegreatgumbino]

Just finished an at home comparision of the stock 460's, JW Mod 460's, and the 480's.  Let us know what you think.

BT is available in the Kickdown section:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52183.msg679735#msg679735

Not many people grabbing this.  Figured there would be more interest.  Anyone that has downloaded this care to share their thoughts?

[dgodwin]

I grabbed it (thanks! +t)  and to be honest I was surprised how similar the mics sounded.  I figured that there would've been a night and day difference between them.  I'll reserve rest of my judgement until I listen more closely. 

[Charlies]

Just finished an at home comparision of the stock 460's, JW Mod 460's, and the 480's.  Let us know what you think.

BT is available in the Kickdown section:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52183.msg679735#msg679735

Not many people grabbing this.  Figured there would be more interest.  Anyone that has downloaded this care to share their thoughts?

Anyway I could talk you in to a snail mail B&P or maybe a vine? A vine might get more people interested. Thanks for the comp.

[F.O.Bean]

Just finished an at home comparision of the stock 460's, JW Mod 460's, and the 480's.  Let us know what you think.

BT is available in the Kickdown section:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52183.msg679735#msg679735

Not many people grabbing this.  Figured there would be more interest.  Anyone that has downloaded this care to share their thoughts?

Anyway I could talk you in to a snail mail B&P or maybe a vine? A vine might get more people interested. Thanks for the comp.

thats why I havent listened as well, i'd get down on a vine or even an ftp d/l thanks.

[thegreatgumbino]

Didn't want to post my reply twice, so I'll redirect you to here:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=44721.195

[sygdwm]

finally got a chance to d/l this from home. will report back soon.

[Aaron734]

Just finished an at home comparision of the stock 460's, JW Mod 460's, and the 480's.  Let us know what you think.

BT is available in the Kickdown section:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52183.msg679735#msg679735

Not many people grabbing this.  Figured there would be more interest.  Anyone that has downloaded this care to share their thoughts?

Anyway I could talk you in to a snail mail B&P or maybe a vine? A vine might get more people interested. Thanks for the comp.

and

Just finished an at home comparision of the stock 460's, JW Mod 460's, and the 480's.  Let us know what you think.

BT is available in the Kickdown section:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52183.msg679735#msg679735

Not many people grabbing this.  Figured there would be more interest.  Anyone that has downloaded this care to share their thoughts?

Anyway I could talk you in to a snail mail B&P or maybe a vine? A vine might get more people interested. Thanks for the comp.

thats why I havent listened as well, i'd get down on a vine or even an ftp d/l thanks.

ill shoot you guys copies of this comp via snail mail if you want. just pm me your addresses and ill take care of it right away. its worth a listen for sure. i checked out some of it on headphones today, im going to run it through my main playback this thursday. matt +t in 12 for putting this all together!

[Charlies]

Thanks Aaron, I think the Gumbino is going to take care of me...would be happy to send it on to Bean when I'm done. Will report back.

[ford prefect]

Just finished an at home comparision of the stock 460's, JW Mod 460's, and the 480's.  Let us know what you think.

BT is available in the Kickdown section:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52183.msg679735#msg679735

For gear comparisons, it'd be great to get the files onto archive.org - maybe in the Open Source Audio section.

http://www.archive.org/audio/collection.php?collection=opensource_audio

[ford prefect]

Matt gave me permission to post these to the archive for a more permanent home.  (thanks!)

http://www.archive.org/details/akg_480-460-JW460_comparison

If anyone else has something like this they want to post over there, feel free to do so.  I can send you instructions if needed, it's very similar to uploading to the Live Music section. 

[Brian Skalinder]

If anyone else has something like this they want to post over there, feel free to do so.  I can send you instructions if needed, it's very similar to uploading to the Live Music section.

So, basically just upload to Open Source Audio?

I have at least a handful of comps I'd like to u/l.  Duh, not sure why I never thought of this before.  Only catch for me:  at least one of the comps is a studio track played back over my home stereo.  I imagine there're legal issues with upping that one.  But the others...cool!

[ford prefect]

So, basically just upload to Open Source Audio?

Yup.

Only catch for me:  at least one of the comps is a studio track played back over my home stereo.  I imagine there're legal issues with upping that one.  But the others...cool!

Yes, it's probably better if the files are just a small (~ 1 minute) sample size rather than a full copyrighted song.  In regards to Matt's AKG comp, the band is no longer together so I'm guessing that would be a little closer to ok than say posting a Bob Dylan track.

For future consideration, I imagine that samples of classical would be a good choice when doing comparisons for rights and sonic reasons. 

If we get a bunch of them in there I'll try to create a collection for them so you can hit a homepage with a URL like this and browse/find all of them easily (not active yet)

http://www.archive.org/details/GearComparisons

[thegreatgumbino]

And the cd with the track I used is out of print as well.