Topic: New Digital Mics

[ingsy]

When future equipment incorporates AES42 inputs you won't need the DMI-2.

John

John - any info you can share about this future equipment? 

[BWolf]

ADC - The A to D converter is 28-bit and better resolution than analogue

can you explain this any further?

[Brian Skalinder]

ADC - The A to D converter is 28-bit and better resolution than analogue

can you explain this any further?

I suspect John meant better resolution than analog mics > external ADC.  Not sure, though.  Haven't read it yet, but Neumann has a publication on their documentation page discussing digital mics in general along with some specifics on the Neumann model.

[John Willett]

A 28-bit A/D actually gives better resolution and s/n than analogue (just) which is why Neumann have the patented 28-bit converter.  I think it's about 130dB whereas the theoretical maximum for an analogue stage is 128dB.

There is no reason for going digital if it's worse than analogue.

With analogue you also have to allow headroom in the mic. pre. to avoid clipping and headroom in the A/D to avoid clipping - this drops the dynamic range by about 25dB - having the A/D by the capsule gets all this back again.

The AES42 standard was developed with consultation with the mixer and DAW manufacturers as well as the microphone manufacturers.  Neumann were the first to this standard as the mixer and DAW manufacturers were reluctant to bring out equipment with AES42 inputs until there was something top plug into them.

Now that Neumann, and shortly Schoeps, have microphones available; there is no excuse for the DAW and mixer manufacturers not to start delivering equipment with AES42 inputs.

I know of one or two things in the pipeline and hope to hear of more soon - perhaps NAB and WES-Wien will provide an answer.

John

[BWolf]

so if i sell my km140s and v3 and get the digital package with converter (2 mics + the box) for $7500, is it worth it? 

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/333959.html
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/333964.html

so it would be km184D > dmi2 > bit bucket... 

or i could get D-01 package for the amount of a small car... http://www.fullcompass.com/product/288724.html

[Rick]

can the dmi2 even be ran in the field without some inverter?

[John Willett]

so if i sell my km140s and v3 and get the digital package with converter (2 mics + the box) for $7500, is it worth it? 

  It's expensive in the States 

The UK price (ex VAT) is £2,307.90 retail for a stereo pair *including* DMI-2 box.

[John Willett]

can the dmi2 even be ran in the field without some inverter?

The DMI-2 is mains only.

Neumann will be at NAB - so pressure them for a DC version

[BWolf]

so if i sell my km140s and v3 and get the digital package with converter (2 mics + the box) for $7500, is it worth it? 

  It's expensive in the States 

The UK price (ex VAT) is £2,307.90 retail for a stereo pair *including* DMI-2 box.

if thats the case, i could sell my 140s and ak20 cap and the v3 and fund the entire project.  now how do i power the DMI-2 in the field?  looks like it just takes a regular plug....  hmmmmm

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

if thats the case, i could sell my 140s and ak20 cap and the v3 and fund the entire project.  now how do i power the DMI-2 in the field?  looks like it just takes a regular plug....  hmmmmm

You need a Mr. Fusion...

I've seen folks using one of those car-starter/emergency power things:
http://tinyurl.com/2xgcac

These have AC outlets built in...

Terry

[stirinthesauce]

if thats the case, i could sell my 140s and ak20 cap and the v3 and fund the entire project.  now how do i power the DMI-2 in the field?  looks like it just takes a regular plug....  hmmmmm

You need a Mr. Fusion...

I've seen folks using one of those car-starter/emergency power things:
http://tinyurl.com/2xgcac

These have AC outlets built in...

Terry

I actually have one of those heavy ass jumpstarter car battery deals.   That thing is friggin heavy!   Lots of juice though.

[Church-Audio]

I think this whole A/D thing in the mic is cool because you can then incorporate a DSP and program the mics frequency response or at least correct it. I think it opens up new doors, and it is the future. But I dont see real practical uses for it just yet.

Because the A/D built into a professional console or stand alone converter is going to be better then any A/D you can build in to a small mic. That being said as time goes on we shrink stuff down ic's get smaller DSP's get smaller it becomes more of a reality. But the one thing that can not be ignored is all of these mics still have a analog front end that still produces noise, I for one dont want a noise gate on my mic to reduce the noise floor.

I want to be able to use a high end preamp with a microphone with very little self noise to do that. I think this technology has a great application for measurement microphones where you want a flat response and its very hard to get it so you can program it in. But for live sound or for Live recording I think the products usefulness is limited at this point in time.


Please dont flame me for my opinion

Chris

[TNJazz]

so if i sell my km140s and v3 and get the digital package with converter (2 mics + the box) for $7500, is it worth it? 

  It's expensive in the States 

The UK price (ex VAT) is £2,307.90 retail for a stereo pair *including* DMI-2 box.

if thats the case, i could sell my 140s and ak20 cap and the v3 and fund the entire project.  now how do i power the DMI-2 in the field?  looks like it just takes a regular plug....  hmmmmm

That's GBP, not USD.

[BWolf]

I think this whole A/D thing in the mic is cool because you can then incorporate a DSP and program the mics frequency response or at least correct it. I think it opens up new doors, and it is the future. But I dont see real practical uses for it just yet.

Because the A/D built into a professional console or stand alone converter is going to be better then any A/D you can build in to a small mic. That being said as time goes on we shrink stuff down ic's get smaller DSP's get smaller it becomes more of a reality. But the one thing that can not be ignored is all of these mics still have a analog front end that still produces noise, I for one dont want a noise gate on my mic to reduce the noise floor.

I want to be able to use a high end preamp with a microphone with very little self noise to do that. I think this technology has a great application for measurement microphones where you want a flat response and its very hard to get it so you can program it in. But for live sound or for Live recording I think the products usefulness is limited at this point in time.


Please dont flame me for my opinion

Chris

you should check out the article that was linked about the digital mics.  there is some really interesting stuff about eliminating the noice floor to almost 0 because of the dynamic range of the digital system....

[John Willett]

..... the A/D built into a professional console or stand alone converter is going to be better then any A/D you can build in to a small mic.

Er - NO.  The Neumann has a patented 28-bit A/D which is better than anything else on the market.  It is actually better than analogue.

But the one thing that can not be ignored is all of these mics still have a analog front end that still produces noise, I for one don't want a noise gate on my mic to reduce the noise floor.

The digital mics have only the diaphragm and an fet before the A/D converter.

I want to be able to use a high end preamp with a microphone with very little self noise to do that.

You have to allow headroom in the analogue pre-amp to avoid distortion and more headroom in the A/D to avoid distortion - these two headrooms reduce the overall dynamic range of the microphone by about 25dB.  As the A/D is 28-bit in the Neumann Solution-D series you digitise the capsule directly - the 28-bit converter has a better dynamic range than the capsule so you don't need to allow headroom and get everything.