Topic: FINALLY: new "DPA 4080" Miniature CARDIOID Microphone, Lavalier, Black

[Arni99]

press release:
http://dpamicrophones.com/page.php?PID=1918


description:
http://dpamicrophones.com/module.php?MID=101&itemid=4080-BM&function=pdescription

specifications:
http://dpamicrophones.com/module.php?MID=101&itemid=4080-BM&function=pspecification
5,4mm(0,2") diameter of capsule(same as omnis) and 30mm(1,2") length(omnis 12mm) .
144dB SPL

[JiB97]

here are the specs:  (from dpamicrophones.com)

Principle of operation:  Pressure gradient
Cartridge type:  Pre-polarized condenser element with vertical diaphragm
Frequency range, ± 2 dB:  250 Hz - 17 kHz with typ. 4 dB soft boost at 4-6 kHz (-5 dB at 100 Hz)
Directional characteristics:  Cardioid
Equivalent noise level A-weighted:  Typ. 23 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 26 dB(A))
Capsule diameter:  5.4 mm (0.2 in)
Total harmonic distortion (THD):  <1 % uo to 123 dB SPL peak  <1 % uo to 120 dB SPL RMS sine
Output impedance:  30 - 40 Ohm
Microphone length:  30 mm (1.2 in)
Max. SPL, peak before clipping:  144 dB
Weight:  15 g (0.5 oz) incl. cable and MicroDot connector
Cable length:  1.2 m (4 ft)
Cable colour:  Black
Colour:  Black
Dynamic Range:  Typ. 100 dB
S/N ratio, re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL):  Typ. 71 dB(A)
Connector:  MicroDot
Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB:  20 mV/Pa; -34 dB re. 1 V/Pa

and, here are the graphs:

[Humbug]

Hmm..I guess that's suitable for our needs? If so, I want one!

That clip's amazing looking, the way the cable winds round it. I'm concerned that it's replaceable if it breaks (I break Audio Technica clips on a fairly regular basis).

What about if you want to use it without the pop filter?

[ballerusk]

It seems a bit weird to wear...? Wondering how it looks without the windscreen and clip, for those wanting to have a "discreet" rig 

[ilduclo]

anyone see the price?

[Arni99]

It seems a bit weird to wear...? Wondering how it looks without the windscreen and clip, for those wanting to have a "discreet" rig 

it´s only 3cm long(1,2") and hast the same diameter as the known 406x series..5.4mm(0,2").
on the pic it looks huge yes .
MACRO ZOOM .

[bluegrass_brad]

Looks like it has kind of a nasty "presence" bump at around 5k, lows roll off pretty hard as well.  Looks like a graph for a mic predominantly made for vocals to me.

[Church-Audio]

Looks like it has kind of a nasty "presence" bump at around 5k, lows roll off pretty hard as well.  Looks like a graph for a mic predominantly made for vocals to me.

I would have to agree based on the frequency plot.. it looks like this mic has been tailored for speech.. I would also say that DPA frequency graphs tend to be 100% accurate as a "generalized" frequency graph and can be relied on as accurate. DPA makes the best mics in the world but this one looks like it might be better on an actor then for use recording 20 to 20khz music..

Chris

[muj]

that's one nasty frequency curve cotdayum

[JasonSobel]

bottom end of only 250hz??

well, the 250Hz is the bottom range of the +/- 2dB.  based on the graph, it looks like 40 Hz is down at -6 ot -7 dB.
so it still picks up the lower frequencies, its just not as sensitive in that region.

[JasonSobel]

oh, I completely agree with you, 250Hz is very high for a bass roll-off, and it certainly doesn't seem like this will be a good mic for what most of us do.  I was just pointing out the fact that just because the the specs state: "Frequency range, ± 2 dB:  250 Hz - 17 kHz" doesn't mean that it stops on a dime at 250 and picks up nothing below.  it may be  heavily rolled off, but it's still picking up some lower frequencies...

[Church-Audio]

bottom end of only 250hz??

well, the 250Hz is the bottom range of the +/- 2dB.  based on the graph, it looks like 40 Hz is down at -6 ot -7 dB.
so it still picks up the lower frequencies, its just not as sensitive in that region.

I would say more like 3 db at 250... And 8 db or so at 50hz but when you compair it to that "huge" peek its more like 13 db down at 50hz that is substantial I would say this mic would be very Am radio for recording music.. That being said this might be a preliminary frequency plots not accurate who knows what kind of tuning DPA might be trying to do.. But this is why there are not to many subminiature cardioid mics here is another one made by AT the 898 I have used it and it sounds quite nice again I have only used it for an actor and not for music..

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/c56cac8605404472/index.html

[WiFiJeff]

When I spoke with Bruce Myers earlier in the year (today nobody's home at DPA US, just a phone answerer, I left voicemail for next week) he indicated that the 4080 was the first of several cardioids, and was intended as a lavalier mic (as opposed to the earlier mini-cardioid they put out which was meant for mounting an inch or two from the mouth).  The later ones might be better for us, but he indicated that even this model would smoke the micro-mini cardioid competition in sound, so I'll be ordering a pair, I think.  No price or exact date was given to me, maybe next week.

Jeff

[Dede2002]

Hey Arni,

Thanks for the news!

[Roger Gustavsson]

The proximity effect is dependent of the distance from the source. Just look at the DPA 4011. If you have a flat curve at 30 cm, the response will be way down at 1 m at low frequencies. If the drop start at 250 Hz, there will be a serious drop at the lowest frequencies.....

[prof_peabody]

I can't find the frequency response/power spectra for the DPA402X.  I'd like to see/hear how they compare.  The DPA4023 being an unattainable dream I've had for a few months now...   

[Roger Gustavsson]

I have taken these from www.dpamicrophones.dk

[j.mart]

by the look of that graph, i'd wager it won't fit in our needs. that nasty roll-off and the 5k boost look suitable for vocals. the flatter the better imo

[china_rider]

bottom end of only 250hz??

:moves on:

yep

Frequency range, ± 2 dB:  250 Hz - 17 kHz with typ. 4 dB soft boost at 4-6 kHz (-5 dB at 100 Hz)

I've gotten pretty used to 20 - 20k. 

[WiFiJeff]

The bass roll-off has me reconsidering, especially since that's at a pretty close placement.  Assuming the 4080 is overall of the quality of the 4060 series, would EQing the recording to boost the bass below 250 H by the flip of this curve work, or would it introduce distortions?

Jeff

[Arni99]

price according to this site is 2600 danish crowns which makes 491 US$ for 1 mic.
http://www.soundware.dk/page463.aspx?recordid463=142

[dactylus]

price according to this site is 2600 danish crowns which makes 491 US$ for 1 mic.
http://www.soundware.dk/page463.aspx?recordid463=142

I'll be passing on these and waiting in the hopes that dpa will release a mini card more suitable to our needs (my needs)...

 

[loul69]

Someone has tested it?

[Arni99]

Someone has tested it?

They´ll be available as of October 2007 thus none will have tested them yet.

[grider]

I've seen these in wide recent use as lavalier mics for television reporter vocals, I would guess that the extreme directionality and fragility and cost of these mics will limit their use to that application almost entirely

[dactylus]

When I spoke with Bruce Myers earlier in the year (today nobody's home at DPA US, just a phone answerer, I left voicemail for next week) he indicated that the 4080 was the first of several cardioids, and was intended as a lavalier mic (as opposed to the earlier mini-cardioid they put out which was meant for mounting an inch or two from the mouth).  The later ones might be better for us, but he indicated that even this model would smoke the micro-mini cardioid competition in sound, so I'll be ordering a pair, I think.  No price or exact date was given to me, maybe next week.

Jeff

Any news on the appearance of the next generation of dpa mini cards, ones that may be suitable for our musical reproduction needs?


 

[prof_peabody]

When I spoke with Bruce Myers earlier in the year (today nobody's home at DPA US, just a phone answerer, I left voicemail for next week) he indicated that the 4080 was the first of several cardioids, and was intended as a lavalier mic (as opposed to the earlier mini-cardioid they put out which was meant for mounting an inch or two from the mouth).  The later ones might be better for us, but he indicated that even this model would smoke the micro-mini cardioid competition in sound, so I'll be ordering a pair, I think.  No price or exact date was given to me, maybe next week.

Jeff

Any news on the appearance of the next generation of dpa mini cards, ones that may be suitable for our musical reproduction needs?


 

Looks like right now the 402X series is the only option from DPA.  Believe it or not, but they are pretty stealthable - the downside is probably the cost. 

[dactylus]

When I spoke with Bruce Myers earlier in the year (today nobody's home at DPA US, just a phone answerer, I left voicemail for next week) he indicated that the 4080 was the first of several cardioids, and was intended as a lavalier mic (as opposed to the earlier mini-cardioid they put out which was meant for mounting an inch or two from the mouth).  The later ones might be better for us, but he indicated that even this model would smoke the micro-mini cardioid competition in sound, so I'll be ordering a pair, I think.  No price or exact date was given to me, maybe next week.

Jeff

Any news on the appearance of the next generation of dpa mini cards, ones that may be suitable for our musical reproduction needs?


 

Looks like right now the 402X series is the only option from DPA.  Believe it or not, but they are pretty stealthable - the downside is probably the cost. 

See above quote ^^^^

When I spoke with Bruce Myers earlier in the year (today nobody's home at DPA US, just a phone answerer, I left voicemail for next week) he indicated that the 4080 was the first of several cardioids, and was intended as a lavalier mic (as opposed to the earlier mini-cardioid they put out which was meant for mounting an inch or two from the mouth).  The later ones might be better for us.

I'm looking for info on "the later ones"...


 

[prof_peabody]

See above quote ^^^^

When I spoke with Bruce Myers earlier in the year (today nobody's home at DPA US, just a phone answerer, I left voicemail for next week) he indicated that the 4080 was the first of several cardioids, and was intended as a lavalier mic (as opposed to the earlier mini-cardioid they put out which was meant for mounting an inch or two from the mouth).  The later ones might be better for us.

I'm looking for info on "the later ones"...


 

So like I wrote - in the meantime the 402X series is the only DPA option for stealth cards.

[dactylus]

See above quote ^^^^

When I spoke with Bruce Myers earlier in the year (today nobody's home at DPA US, just a phone answerer, I left voicemail for next week) he indicated that the 4080 was the first of several cardioids, and was intended as a lavalier mic (as opposed to the earlier mini-cardioid they put out which was meant for mounting an inch or two from the mouth).  The later ones might be better for us.

I'm looking for info on "the later ones"...


 

So like I wrote - in the meantime the 402X series is the only DPA option for stealth cards.

I'm not looking at the 402X series for low profile (although I will be looking at the dpa 4028 for open taping next year) - the imminent birth of the gefell nbox will solve the "low profile, quality card" problem for me. 

 

[danlynch]

It might well be "indistinguishable" from the 402x series when applied to the setting he describes, but for our purposes its just not going to come close to capturing the bottom end like the 402x mics.

[illconditioned]

It might well be "indistinguishable" from the 402x series when applied to the setting he describes, but for our purposes its just not going to come close to capturing the bottom end like the 402x mics.

I often don't need excess bass in my recordings.  Many venues overdo the bass anyway, so having some roll off is not that bad.
Should be interesting to see the design of this.  Will it be a vertical diaphragm like the 406x?

  Richard

[dactylus]

for the latest update:

Mike,
here is a "by the way":
I was looking at the taperssection.com site and saw a thread on our new 4080's, here are some points:
1. specifically designed as a lav mic for broadcast and sound reinforcement human voice applications
2. integrated mic/windscreen/shock-mount/cable management clip system with replacement parts available
3. shock mount looks "flimsy" but designed to withstand a weight of 10 kilos with a very long duty cycle.
4. cable management system eliminates ALL cable noise.
5. Proximity effect distance for "linearity" is 10 inches, the normal distance of lapel mount to mouth for the mics' intended application
5. Wide response/flat versions that will be more applicable to location recording coming soon....perhaps by mid-fall.
 
For the record I have made several recording of acoustic guitar with the 4080 "as is" and was stunned by the quality of results...definitely slightly hyped in the upper mid range where the vocal presence boost is located, at a distance of  approx. 6 inches away. If DPA never offered anything else, I would gladly use this for "close" miking on stage for acoustic instruments...it is way better than ANYTHING I have ever heard in this size format. Excellent rear rejection...unlike anything ever offered in a lav sized mic. As a "budget" mic I would use in studio for any "mid range" acoustic source. Wider low end response at distances less than 10 inches.
 
 
THIS JUST IN:
Just received a set of prototypes of a "20 to 20K" flat response version with the intended application of "hanging" mics for over choir and/or orchestra..recorded acoustic guitar as well as solo voice here at our offices with jaw dropping results. When compared to 4011 and 4021's the sound is almost indistinguishable. Being our harshest critic, I am more than impressed.
 
Mike, you can use these comments as your own from a reliable inside DPA source...I thought you might want to be "inside the ropes" on this.
 
Stay tuned....

Thank you Mike!!  Where do I get in line!  +T


            

[macdaddy]

for the latest update:

Mike,
here is a "by the way":

THIS JUST IN:
Just received a set of prototypes of a "20 to 20K" flat response version with the intended application of "hanging" mics for over choir and/or orchestra..recorded acoustic guitar as well as solo voice here at our offices with jaw dropping results. When compared to 4011 and 4021's the sound is almost indistinguishable. Being our harshest critic, I am more than impressed.
 
Mike, you can use these comments as your own from a reliable inside DPA source...I thought you might want to be "inside the ropes" on this.
 
Stay tuned....

cool!

+t for the info

[spyder9]

I'm interested.  It would be cool if they developed a encapsulated version where they had hypers as a choice.  The wait-n-see will be fun too.   

[danlynch]

It might well be "indistinguishable" from the 402x series when applied to the setting he describes, but for our purposes its just not going to come close to capturing the bottom end like the 402x mics.

I often don't need excess bass in my recordings.  Many venues overdo the bass anyway, so having some roll off is not that bad.
Should be interesting to see the design of this.  Will it be a vertical diaphragm like the 406x?

  Richard

Don't get me wrong, this could end up being a nice option for compact microphones -- may in fact may end up being the best possible choice at this price on the market.

But frankly, the idea that it will be indistinguishable from the 402x series is pretty misleading.  It will have the clarity and crisp high-end that DPA consistently delivers, but a microphone with these specs is just going to sound thin on the bottom end when compared to the 402x mics, whether a venue is bass-heavy or not. 

[prof_peabody]

It might well be "indistinguishable" from the 402x series when applied to the setting he describes, but for our purposes its just not going to come close to capturing the bottom end like the 402x mics.

I often don't need excess bass in my recordings.  Many venues overdo the bass anyway, so having some roll off is not that bad.
Should be interesting to see the design of this.  Will it be a vertical diaphragm like the 406x?

  Richard

Don't get me wrong, this could end up being a nice option for compact microphones -- may in fact may end up being the best possible choice at this price on the market.

But frankly, the idea that it will be indistinguishable from the 402x series is pretty misleading.  It will have the clarity and crisp high-end that DPA consistently delivers, but a microphone with these specs is just going to sound thin on the bottom end when compared to the 402x mics, whether a venue is bass-heavy or not. 

Dan - it's called the "shiny new effect".  Anything shiny and new is always better.  I'm sure the new mic will be sweet - just how sweet remains to be heard!

[danlynch]

Yes, and apparently people have felt strongly enough about this shiny new thing as to be so offended by my comparisons to the 402x series to the point of giving my -7 t's since yesterday.  Apparently speaking the quantifiable truth about two comparative microphones is worth quite a bit of negative karma in this topic.
Unfuckingbelieveable.
 

[prof_peabody]

Yes, and apparently people have felt strongly enough about this shiny new thing as to be so offended by my comparisons to the 402x series to the point of giving my -7 t's since yesterday.  Apparently speaking the quantifiable truth about two comparative microphones is worth quite a bit of negative karma in this topic.
Unfuckingbelieveable.
 

Almost as fun as the people who message me on torrent sites to see if I can EQ the recordings better.  Fact of the matter is what you hear is what you get when running DPA402X > Aerco.  That's why I like it.  Schoeps sound nice, but it's not what I heard at the venue.... too much color.

[kgreener]

It might well be "indistinguishable" from the 402x series when applied to the setting he describes, but for our purposes its just not going to come close to capturing the bottom end like the 402x mics.

Don't get me wrong, this could end up being a nice option for compact microphones -- may in fact may end up being the best possible choice at this price on the market.

But frankly, the idea that it will be indistinguishable from the 402x series is pretty misleading.  It will have the clarity and crisp high-end that DPA consistently delivers, but a microphone with these specs is just going to sound thin on the bottom end when compared to the 402x mics, whether a venue is bass-heavy or not. 

I've heard plenty of 406x recordings and the bass is definitely not shy, so I don't see why the '20-20k flat response version' 4080's couldn't do the same.  not saying they are equal to the 402x series, nor am I say they will be indistinguishable, but amazingly deep bass is definitely obtainable in these little suckers.

[illconditioned]

It might well be "indistinguishable" from the 402x series when applied to the setting he describes, but for our purposes its just not going to come close to capturing the bottom end like the 402x mics.

Don't get me wrong, this could end up being a nice option for compact microphones -- may in fact may end up being the best possible choice at this price on the market.

But frankly, the idea that it will be indistinguishable from the 402x series is pretty misleading.  It will have the clarity and crisp high-end that DPA consistently delivers, but a microphone with these specs is just going to sound thin on the bottom end when compared to the 402x mics, whether a venue is bass-heavy or not. 

I've heard plenty of 406x recordings and the bass is definitely not shy, so I don't see why the '20-20k flat response version' 4080's couldn't do the same.  not saying they are equal to the 402x series, nor am I say they will be indistinguishable, but amazingly deep bass is definitely obtainable in these little suckers.

It is much harder to get bass response in a directional (eg., cardioid) mic than in an omni.

As I said earlier, though, many people roll off bass anyway, so the mic doesn't have to be that bassy.  As long as it is clear and detailed, which I'm sure it will be...

  Richard

[kgreener]

Excellent point, Richard. 

+t

[prof_peabody]

It is much harder to get bass response in a directional (eg., cardioid) mic than in an omni.

As I said earlier, though, many people roll off bass anyway, so the mic doesn't have to be that bassy.  As long as it is clear and detailed, which I'm sure it will be...

  Richard

People generally rolloff base because the old school 2-wire batt boxe set-ups could generally not handle those spls right?  I don't think base rolloff is all that necessary in most situations. 

Also... a few people reading this thread deserve one of these: 

[illconditioned]

It is much harder to get bass response in a directional (eg., cardioid) mic than in an omni.

As I said earlier, though, many people roll off bass anyway, so the mic doesn't have to be that bassy.  As long as it is clear and detailed, which I'm sure it will be...

  Richard

People generally rolloff base because the old school 2-wire batt boxe set-ups could generally not handle those spls right?  I don't think base rolloff is all that necessary in most situations. 

Also... a few people reading this thread deserve one of these: 

Some people like the bass, but most clubs I go to overdo the bass.  I often record with really lightweight mics, like Sennheiser MKE40.  If I can get cardioid and really clear mids/highs, that is most of the battle.  Now, I would add bass to the MKE40, but something with a little more bass would be just fine for me.  To each is own, I guess.

I'm most curious on the physical design of this mic...

  Richard

[Nick's Picks]

what ?
you mean they didn't produce this ...specifically for low profile concert taping ?
HOW DARE THEY!

[dactylus]

what ?
you mean they didn't produce this ...specifically for low profile concert taping ?
HOW DARE THEY!

 

[dunebug81]

What would be the chance of these new mics having the same microdot interface as the 406x's and can be used with the MMA6000??

[WiFiJeff]

What would be the chance of these new mics having the same microdot interface as the 406x's and can be used with the MMA6000??

The 4080s have microdots and behave well with the MMA6000, I was told the follow-on series would also, but I don't know for sure.

Jeff

[dunebug81]

What would be the chance of these new mics having the same microdot interface as the 406x's and can be used with the MMA6000??

The 4080s have microdots and behave well with the MMA6000, I was told the follow-on series would also, but I don't know for sure.

Jeff

Sweet, might have to pick up a pair of these when they come out.

[WiFiJeff]

DPA US says they will indeed use the microdot connectors and work with the MMA6000, they hope for release early fall.  They expect them to be available in Europe before they come here to the US.

Jeff

[BC]

But frankly, the idea that it will be indistinguishable from the 402x series is pretty misleading.  It will have the clarity and crisp high-end that DPA consistently delivers, but a microphone with these specs is just going to sound thin on the bottom end when compared to the 402x mics, whether a venue is bass-heavy or not. 

THIS JUST IN:
Just received a set of prototypes of a "20 to 20K" flat response version with the intended application of "hanging" mics for over choir and/or orchestra..recorded acoustic guitar as well as solo voice here at our offices with jaw dropping results. When compared to 4011 and 4021's the sound is almost indistinguishable. Being our harshest critic, I am more than impressed.
 

don't forget to consider the source material used, there is not going to be much low end with acoustic guitar or solo voice. Guess we'll have to wait and see how the mini and compact cardioid DPA's compare sonically in a PA'ed rock-concert type of setting.

I'm pretty excited about the full range mini cards though, I would definitely  like to have a more stealthable option than the 4022's in my toolbox.    

 

[dunebug81]

Ive never used a cardioid mic but since they are directional I assume that I would have more of an "upfront" kinda sound.  I could see where that would be useful at outdoor shows.

[dunebug81]

and using them to tape loud rock music in crappy clubs would I notice a difference between at 20-20k set vs a 40-20k set?

[dunebug81]

Sweet, well them I'm good to go

Now I just gotta find out who I need to give some money to.

[JasonSobel]

Seeing as how every other cardiod in the DPA line bottoms out at 40hz, I'd think that the freq. repsonse values might look more like 40hz-20khz for the musical response version.
Just me and voicing some guesstulations.

this is not true.  the official published specs might say something like 40Hz-20kHz +/- 1dB (or whatever their tolerance is, I didn't check).  but that's just because DPA advertises its mics as having a very flat repsonse.  The mics will pick up sound below 40 Hz, but it slopes off a bit down there, so maybe the frequency response is -5dB at 20Hz.  or maybe its -10dB at 20Hz.  either way, DPA makes a marketing decision to say 40Hz-20kHz +/- 1dB, rather than saying 20Hz-20kHz +/-10dB.  because to DPA, its more important to show that the mics are very flat, rather than to show the lowest registers of the frequency response.  other companies will publish specs that say 20Hz-20kHz, but then leave off a tolerance measurement.  either way, the DPA standard and compact cardiods definitely go below 40Hz, they certainly don't just stop on a dime with nothing below that.

[sullen]

Schoeps sound nice, but it's not what I heard at the venue.... 

Damn straight 

DPA Forever