Topic: Help needed on sp-cmc8-mics..

[Hman]

I'm planning on buying some new SP-CMC8 mics, and I want to be sure I understand this good/right.
At the SoundProfessionals ordering-site you can add one of the 2 types sensitivity-options:

- High sensitivity for low to moderately high sound levels;
- Add low sensitivity modification for very high sound levels;

I only tape rock-shows, so I guess I should pick the 2nd option then(??).
Just want to be sure of this.. any thoughts?? 

[nicegrin]

Yes! The second option for loud rockshows!

I guess it differs abit from different mics but this modification lowers the distortionrate at 114 db from ~5% to 0.5%.
If you browse the forum for the 4.7k mod I'm sure you will find some interesting post by Chris Church who invented the mod!


 

[Belexes]

Agreed. I have a set of these with the mod. (see sig)

I have yet to use them since I had the mod done.  If you ever record anything quiet, you may want to check out the ST-9100 Church Audio pre, which will give you up to +20 dB.

[Liquid Drum]

You don't need the mod for these mics, apparently degrades the performance.

Chris Church will test them for you if you send them to him and he will do the mod if needed for a great price.


(Sorry if I got this wrong Chris)

[Liquid Drum]

Read this thread:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,96633.0.html

[Belexes]

You don't need the mod for these mics, apparently degrades the performance.

Chris Church will test them for you if you send them to him and he will do the mod if needed for a great price.


(Sorry if I got this wrong Chris)

"Degrades" isn't the best terminology really. What Chris went on to say in the thread:

"The reason why you dont want to do the mod if you dont have to is simple if your mics are "fine" then you are losing 10 db of gain unnessisarily. Also there is NO loss in frequency response what so ever from this mod."

No frequency loss, just a loss of gain that you may or may not need.

[Liquid Drum]

I stand corrected. Thanks for the info. +t

[nameloc01]

If the mics are clipping either....        a. They arent good mics...                      b. They arent being powered correctly.                               and while i hear these dont need the low sens mod...i say they nor the 853/943 dont need them either. The mod is simply a less expensive route than running a 3wire phantom setup. Its that simple. Not saying the mod doesnt work...it does not make much sense to me to lower the sensitivity, thus possibly causing need for an additional pre to get them back up to where they were to begin with and also negating the " less cost" issue. Also causing possible problems with factory warranties. If anyone cares to argue this again i'll put some samples of my stuff up and we'll see how neccesary the mod really is (not) it all basically comes down to how much money you want to spend initially. My 853s and complete 3 wire setup cost 600.00 and short of recording a nuke bomb going off...they will not clip. period.

[Javier Cinakowski]

AT853Rx-> PS2-> HiMD   

not any better than 

AT853(4.7k)-> HiMD   

IMHO.....



The 4.7k mod provides a very similar powering situation as the phantom and performs the same, and is MUCH less bulky and convieneint...


I will be happy to compare recordings with you....  I got lots of 853's with 4.7k, 2.2k and phantom...

[Will_S]

...it does not make much sense to me to lower the sensitivity, thus possibly causing need for an additional pre to get them back up to where they were to begin with and also negating the " less cost" issue.

The loss of gain is relative to two wire, NOT relative to phantom power.  Another way to look at this would be that doing the 2 wire mod like SP does on their base CMC4 mics actually RAISES sensitivity. 

With 3-wire or 4.7K modded mics or phantom powered mics an additional pre is not necessary for loud music.  For that matter a HiMD has a pretty decent built in preamp and would probably do fine on softer music as well.  But acoustic music recorded AT853Rx>PS-2>JB3 would sound pretty hissy just like 4.7K AT853s>BBox>JB3 would.

Edit:  And furthermore, 4.7K modded SP CMC4Us cost $225 and a Church Audio 9100 pre costs 230.  Add them up and that's $455, a lot less than your $600 setup.
Plus, SP offers a 10% discount to TS.com members and Church has the 9100 at $180 in the Retail thread.  That makes $383.  So your economic argument doesn't make sense either.  (Though to be fair, if you shop around you can get an unmatched pair of AT853Rxs and a PS-2 for $390 as well.  But plugging a PS-2 into a minijack recorder will require a ~$15 adapter cable or some soldering skill.)

[nameloc01]

You guys were not paying attention...i said one "benefit" of  the mod is supposed to be cheaper than a 3wire phantom setup. My setup complete was 600.00 hom much would it cost to buy the mics...ship them to someone to mod...pay for the mod.. And then add a pre because the sensitivity got lowered. Any one have an exact price? Then what if said modded mics shit out? How would said mod affect the AT factory warranty? I mean i have seen " people" state that the " best" way to run them is with the mod and maybe pre....can one of you guys explain to me how in even half of the issues stated above  that the mod is a better option. I am not seeing it... Unless you can get away with not using the pre and just save a couple bucks...(possibly at the cost of the warranty)

[Javier Cinakowski]

You guys were not paying attention...i said one "benefit" of  the mod is supposed to be cheaper than a 3wire phantom setup. My setup complete was 600.00 hom much would it cost to buy the mics...ship them to someone to mod...pay for the mod.. And then add a pre because the sensitivity got lowered. Any one have an exact price? Then what if said modded mics shit out? How would said mod affect the AT factory warranty? I mean i have seen " people" state that the " best" way to run them is with the mod and maybe pre....can one of you guys explain to me how in even half of the issues stated above  that the mod is a better option. I am not seeing it... Unless you can get away with not using the pre and just save a couple bucks...(possibly at the cost of the warranty)

yes, you can use the 4.7k mics without a pre.  The 3-wire and 4.7k both have less gain than a 2-wire setup.  For loud sources they both perform about the same...

If you buy your pair of mics from soundpros they will do the mod and you will still be set on warranty.

It is cheaper and more convienient to do the 4.7k.  your setup was $600, a pair of 853's with 4.7k is half that price...

I was paying attention!   

[nameloc01]

Hmm. Unless i am mistaken (i am going to call) i paid 299 for my mics -no mod and your saying they are now 225 with the mod ? Actually...they were 299 with the phantom adaptors. And the ps2 was 200 ...so i was wrong, i paid 500.00 not 600. So the mics you say are 225 and chris' pre is 280 ( will work with the sp mod?recommended?) thats already a few bucks more than i paid and i wont ever need any other stuff..and on the warranty..how does chris' mod affect it? Apparently his is better than sps?  And also you are still gonna need a 2 wire bb on top of the mod so add some more $ on top of that 505.00. Still waiting to hear how all of this is better.

[nameloc01]

One more thing...this is all based on new gear, not used

[Church-Audio]

Hmm. Unless i am mistaken (i am going to call) i paid 299 for my mics -no mod and your saying they are now 225 with the mod ? Actually...they were 299 with the phantom adaptors. And the ps2 was 200 ...so i was wrong, i paid 500.00 not 600. So the mics you say are 225 and chris' pre is 280 ( will work with the sp mod?recommended?) thats already a few bucks more than i paid and i wont ever need any other stuff..and on the warranty..how does chris' mod affect it? Apparently his is better than sps?  And also you are still gonna need a 2 wire bb on top of the mod so add some more $ on top of that 505.00. Still waiting to hear how all of this is better.

Ummm its not the SP mod its MY MOD.. That's the first thing I want to clear up......

The second thing is you dont need to run these mics three wire to get three wire performance from them.. You can DO MY MOD.... and get all the performance of your set up with half the size and weight. And you can use the moded mics and plug them into a STANDARD plug in power mic jack and they will work just fine with out a PREAMP OR BATTERY BOX.

Now for the ultamate performance you should add one of my preamps or a preamp but thats not 100% nesssisary. Your argument is moot. Is phantom power better then my preamp and a pair of modded mics? well if your running a really expensive preamp you could argue that. But if your running a UA5, my 9100 will smoke it for sound quality and noise floor. End of argument.

I did not invent this mod so I could sell more preamps lol.. I invented it because I needed to make sure The mics I sell WORK as ADVERTISED... meaning when I say the distortion is 0.5% at 114db at 1k IT IS. It just so happens that my mod works with AT 853 mics as well.

And as far as a warranty is concerned the warranty is not effected by my mod what so ever every single LAV mic company out there assumes you will have to solder on the proper connector for your application That's because these mics were never EVER designed for what you guys use them for they were designed for lectures and theatrical applications where they are plugged into a belt pack transmitter. And further more most of the AT phantom adaptors that dont have a HPF switch actually have a HPF set at 80hz that can not be turned off so your actually getting less bass with "some phantom adaptors" again because these mics were never designed for live music recording but SPEECH where you dont need to go down to 50hz... 

Why have I sold so many preamps and mics OVER 3000 and counting? My package is cheaper and SMALLER then a phantom power supply and a separate preamp. And when your using small little mics like the 853 I suspect you want smaller.

And ummm my preamp is not $280 it never has been $280 right now its actually on sale for $140.00 


Chris

[Belexes]

And ummm my preamp is not $280 it never has been $280 right now its actually on sale for $140.00 

Nice plug!

[Church-Audio]

And ummm my preamp is not $280 it never has been $280 right now its actually on sale for $140.00 

Nice plug!

Actually I do use nice plug's I use gold plated Neutrik Not cheap shit ass made in China shit.

Thank you Thank you. I will be here all week

[nameloc01]

My bad i thought it was stated your pre was 280, he actually said 230 which apparently is not correct. So it would be slightly cheaper..if you didnt in fact need a bb. Now ,i fully know you came up with the mod first...i said "sp mod" because i understand they do a copy(kinda) of yours but its inferior. Also , i am not targeting you at all , i am targeting the numerous statements about this mod being "the best" option...which implies that..that it is the best in every case. I do not accept that statement. It depends on the exact rig you are running. Thats all i am getting at...and honestly the size of my rig isnt a problem for me at all. I just think when people inquire about these AT mic options...that we here dont just give them one and then say its the only or ultimately best way to go.         and lastly ..dont apologize for pitching your gear...if you didnt, you wouldnt be a very good business man.

[Church-Audio]

My bad i thought it was stated your pre was 280, he actually said 230 which apparently is not correct. So it would be slightly cheaper..if you didnt in fact need a bb. Now ,i fully know you came up with the mod first...i said "sp mod" because i understand they do a copy(kinda) of yours but its inferior. Also , i am not targeting you at all , i am targeting the numerous statements about this mod being "the best" option...which implies that..that it is the best in every case. I do not accept that statement. It depends on the exact rig you are running. Thats all i am getting at...and honestly the size of my rig isnt a problem for me at all. I just think when people inquire about these AT mic options...that we here dont just give them one and then say its the only or ultimately best way to go.         and lastly ..dont apologize for pitching your gear...if you didnt, you wouldnt be a very good business man.

Dont sweat it. I spent alot of time working this stuff out and finding a better way to build the wheel. There is no one package including mine that is everything to everyone.

Chris

[Belexes]

And ummm my preamp is not $280 it never has been $280 right now its actually on sale for $140.00 

Nice plug!

Actually I do use nice plug's I use gold plated Neutrik Not cheap shit ass made in China shit.

Thank you Thank you. I will be here all week

**rim shot**

[willndmb]

i'm confused

so if you have SP 853s
AND
battery box you should be fine?

you only really need the 4.7 mod if going directly into a recorder?

thanks

[Church-Audio]

i'm confused

so if you have SP 853s
AND
battery box you should be fine?

you only really need the 4.7 mod if going directly into a recorder?

thanks

Stock 853's will overload with out my mod.

[nameloc01]

The 853 get overpowered at higher spls when not being powered with a 3 wire phantom power setup or not being modified with the 4.7 mod and a standard bb. If you run them not modded or without a 3 wire phantom setup and with just a standard 2 wire bb you are going to have problems (at louder shows)  decide which one of the two mentioned options will work out best for you. Do not just run standard 853>2 wire bb.

[Will_S]

Looks like you're still not quite getting it...

Three wire power does NOT require the phantom adapters.  You can run the miniXLR terminated mics directly into a suitable 3 wire battery box or preamp.  Not many people offer them but I believe Chris Church can make you one if you wish.  The phantom adapters do nothing but add bulk, although if you've got them you might as well use them.  There's nothing inherently bad about them (other than the bulk) but not worth seeking out IMO.

The price I quoted for the mics was from visiting SoundProfessionals website today.  You can check yourself if you don't believe me.

I never said Chris' preamp cost 280, I quoted the 230 that his eBay store lists it at but also pointed out that he offers it for 180 (now apparently 140) in the Retail Space forum. 

Edit:  Also, there's nothing "inferior" about the "low sensitvity mod" offered by SP vs. the 4.7K mod invented by Chris Church.  It's the same thing.  One might not like the fact that they copied it (then again, it's not as if Chris patented it and I doubt he gets rich doing it for people, seems like he's doing you a favor by offering the mod at the price he does), but it performs exactly the same because it is the same.  I'd suggest if someone is buying a new set of mics from SP they might as well have SP do it rather than wait for the mics to arrive from New Jeresey only to ship them off to Canada.

[nameloc01]

No apparently you dont get it...tell me what would happen when running 853s directly into a denecke 48v 3 wire phantom supply?  The mics would fry. The adaptors step dowm the 48v to a smaller usable voltage. Not to mention the mics have mini xlrs and the ps2 has full size xlrs they also physically adapt them. Wake up.

[nameloc01]

And also i believe chris has stated sp uses different components than him. And i do believe he stated they were not quite as good. Letmme guess...you have 853 modded 4.7 by sp ? 

[willndmb]

The 853 get overpowered at higher spls when not being powered with a 3 wire phantom power setup or not being modified with the 4.7 mod and a standard bb. If you run them not modded or without a 3 wire phantom setup and with just a standard 2 wire bb you are going to have problems (at louder shows)  decide which one of the two mentioned options will work out best for you. Do not just run standard 853>2 wire bb.

i have the sound pro 853s run into a single 1/8 plug
that i plug into a sound pro battery box w/bass roll which has a single 1/8 that goes into the recorder

so the 4.7 mod would prob be best for me over changing to a complete 3 wire set up

[nameloc01]

And lastly...if you find a porta 48v supply built better than a denecke ...letmme know. Good luck on that one.

[Will_S]

And lastly...if you find a porta 48v supply built better than a denecke ...letmme know. Good luck on that one.

You are either a troll or really really dense.

3 wire power is not the same as phantom power.  3 wire power is what the adapters supply, but you can also build a box that does this directly from a 9V battery rather than providing phantom power only to cut it back down.

I was the one who pointed out to you that running the AT853 caps directly off phantom power would fry them.  But that is not the same as running them off three wire power.

The Denecke is a decent phantom power supply but there is absolutely no reason to use a phantom supply with the AT853s, as the capsules don't actually see 48V.

Oh, and I did the 4.7K mod myself.   

[nameloc01]

Yes...since they already haue a single termination. I suppose. Again it comes down to what you need and $. I actually had mine like that originally but went with the xlrs and ps2 ...i just wanted to keep them stock and run them 3 wire...the way they were designed. i'm just funny that way.  Although i guess i could have went one step further and got the AT power modules. 

[setboy]

Three wire power does NOT require the phantom adapters. 

he is right here

You can run the miniXLR terminated mics directly into a suitable 3 wire battery box or preamp.  Not many people offer them but I believe Chris Church can make you one if you wish. 

he is right here. Some where around here you can find plans for making a  3 wire battery box. I know "Sanjay" (don't know if that's still his name) did make a few a bit back

The phantom adapters do nothing but add bulk, although if you've got them you might as well use them.  There's nothing inherently bad about them (other than the bulk) but not worth seeking out IMO.

they do add bulk. But they do do more than that. Like nameloc01 said

The adaptors step dowm the 48v to a smaller usable voltage. 

if some how you ran the 853's into phantom power you would kill them.

Edit:  Also, there's nothing "inferior" about the "low sensitvity mod" offered by SP vs. the 4.7K mod invented by Chris Church.  It's the same thing.  One might not like the fact that they copied it (then again, it's not as if Chris patented it and I doubt he gets rich doing it for people, seems like he's doing you a favor by offering the mod at the price he does), but it performs exactly the same because it is the same.  I'd suggest if someone is buying a new set of mics from SP they might as well have SP do it rather than wait for the mics to arrive from New Jeresey only to ship them off to Canada.

from where i am standing i don't see why anyone would do this mod when you could just get a good 3 wire battery box made. Hell, with my 933's a lot of the time i'm looking for more gain.

[Church-Audio]

And lastly...if you find a porta 48v supply built better than a denecke ...letmme know. Good luck on that one.

Man whats with all the tude.. I like questions but you are trying really hard to come off like you know more about these mics then I do.

Chris

[nameloc01]

i find it weird that you dont realize that i know they dont see the whole 48v...one of my main points is to avoid using homemade bb's mods and what not. Ya' know ...just plug in and go. Jesus christ talk about dense.                     what would you rather haue ...a stock 67' fastback...or one made with parts with numbers from 4 different ones?  Both mustangs right?

[Will_S]

The phantom adapters do nothing but add bulk, although if you've got them you might as well use them.  There's nothing inherently bad about them (other than the bulk) but not worth seeking out IMO.

they do add bulk. But they do do more than that. Like nameloc01 said

The adaptors step dowm the 48v to a smaller usable voltage. 

if some how you ran the 853's into phantom power you would kill them.

Yes, that is correct.  If you are running the mics into a preamp that provides phantom power, you would want the adapters.  Or, you could turn off the phantom power from the preamp and run the mics into a 3 wire box and then into the preamp.  But teaming the AT853s up with a PS-2 which provides phantom power but is not a preamp seems pretty silly to me.

[nameloc01]

Chris....no tude intended....i just personally have not seen a porta 48v that i would choose over a ps2.  Hmmm. I didnt even realize i was still talking to you.sorry.

[Church-Audio]

Three wire power does NOT require the phantom adapters. 

he is right here

You can run the miniXLR terminated mics directly into a suitable 3 wire battery box or preamp.  Not many people offer them but I believe Chris Church can make you one if you wish. 

he is right here. Some where around here you can find plans for making a  3 wire battery box. I know "Sanjay" (don't know if that's still his name) did make a few a bit back

The phantom adapters do nothing but add bulk, although if you've got them you might as well use them.  There's nothing inherently bad about them (other than the bulk) but not worth seeking out IMO.

they do add bulk. But they do do more than that. Like nameloc01 said

The adaptors step dowm the 48v to a smaller usable voltage. 

if some how you ran the 853's into phantom power you would kill them.

Edit:  Also, there's nothing "inferior" about the "low sensitvity mod" offered by SP vs. the 4.7K mod invented by Chris Church.  It's the same thing.  One might not like the fact that they copied it (then again, it's not as if Chris patented it and I doubt he gets rich doing it for people, seems like he's doing you a favor by offering the mod at the price he does), but it performs exactly the same because it is the same.  I'd suggest if someone is buying a new set of mics from SP they might as well have SP do it rather than wait for the mics to arrive from New Jeresey only to ship them off to Canada.

from where i am standing i don't see why anyone would do this mod when you could just get a good 3 wire battery box made. Hell, with my 933's a lot of the time i'm looking for more gain

The main reason to do my mod is simple you want to reduce the size of your gear. The second thing to remember is three wire also reduces the output by 12.5 db. My mod reduces the output of the mics by 10.5 db. And you can use my mics after the mod with a standard plug in power input and not have to use a battery box.

For example when using my mics with a R-09 you dont need a battery box to power the mics you can use the 5 volts of plug in power and still have the same performance of a 9 volt battery box. And last but not least my preamp does more then just a regular battery box it adds flavor and warmth to the signal.

Thats something you dont get with a regular three wire battery box. But for the people that want to keep there mics stock I make a 9100 with my 4.7k mod built in so in situations where you need more gain you can switch my mod off and run the mics standard 2 wire and get 30 db of over all gain above standard three wire Or conversly turn on my mod and get 20 db of gain + very high spl handling.

My question is why would someone not run my mod if they were going to stealth with the mics they use?

Chris

[nameloc01]

Okay...how about this...anyone know of a 3wire bb that is built as rugged as a ps2? and less than $200.00 cause if you do...i'm on it ( warranty needed)  i guess thats what it comes down to.

[Will_S]

My question is why would someone not run my mod if they were going to stealth with the mics they use?

If they were using a Marantz PMD660 or similar all in one that has XLR inputs and provides phantom power?  That's the only situation where the phantom adapters make sense to me.  Or if using a full size external preamp, but that's not very stealthy.

Edit: Not that there's anything wrong with running a PS2+adapter set up if you already have one, and a couple years ago it might have been your best option.  But for someone buying new, it doesn't make much sense.

[nameloc01]

The u853>cbm40s>ps2 could be a little stealthier. Lol...oh well they pull the sick ones. No offense meant ladies...i, myself (and others i know) just prefer stock (mics and bb's/parts)

[Javier Cinakowski]

nameloc01, you are mistaken about this entire topic...

[Church-Audio]

Okay...how about this...anyone know of a 3wire bb that is built as rugged as a ps2? and less than $200.00 cause if you do...i'm on it ( warranty needed)  i guess thats what it comes down to.

Yeah I make one out of ABS that you can drive over with a truck and it will still work does that count? lol...

[nameloc01]

Whats abs? A type of plastic? If so that would be sweet for the gigs utilizing multiple metal detection devices. Whats the $ on that unit?

[Church-Audio]

Whats abs? A type of plastic? If so that would be sweet for the gigs utilizing multiple metal detection devices. Whats the $ on that unit?

Its $5k but your mics will be stock when you use it. 

[Javier Cinakowski]

LMFAO!

[nameloc01]

Ummm...my computer crashed like 3 months ago and all of my posts here are done on my cell which has great limitations. My question to you about that unit was a serious one...was your response serious or not? That unit seems very interesting to me.      thanks                   j

[Church-Audio]

Ummm...my computer crashed like 3 months ago and all of my posts here are done on my cell which has great limitations. My question to you about that unit was a serious one...was your response serious or not? That unit seems very interesting to me.      thanks                   j

Yeah its $5k I am going to be using the best quality input jacks available and Its also got magic crystals inside it that make your STOCK MICS perform better then the NON STOCK ONES...

[Church-Audio]

Ummm...my computer crashed like 3 months ago and all of my posts here are done on my cell which has great limitations. My question to you about that unit was a serious one...was your response serious or not? That unit seems very interesting to me.      thanks                   j

Dude if you do all your posts on your cell phone no wonder you cant afford one of my preamps lol... Sorry man I had too..

Chris

[nameloc01]

Yeah, well with two young kids to feed and a mortgage on a $300,000 house i thought i was being somewhat responsible just asking the price of something i thought i may be interested in. Apparently i was wrong for asking. Sorry for wasting your time with such stupid questions. And i'll make sure to let all of my other taper friends know not to bother you too.         peace.

[Church-Audio]

Yeah, well with two young kids to feed and a mortgage on a $300,000 house i thought i was being somewhat responsible just asking the price of something i thought i may be interested in. Apparently i was wrong for asking. Sorry for wasting your time with such stupid questions. And i'll make sure to let all of my other taper friends know not to bother you too.         peace.

Man you reap what you sew. You were being just a bit of a dick here. I have 3 pin mini xlr battery boxes for sale they are $60.00 they include my 4.7k switch mod and they work very well. I use nothing but the best in parts.

[nameloc01]

Sounds cool man.(plastic/metal casing?) thats all you had to say..if i had internet access i wouldnt even of had to ask. And if i may add..i dont recall ever slamming your gear...i'd have no reason to. Again i was merely getting at whats "best" for one person may not be the "best" for another. And that statement is directed toward numerous people...it is not a personal attack on you. Just seems like more and more around here if your opinion doesnt conform with the "majority" then youre the dick. Which is unfortunate. Anyhow.                 peace.                    j

[Church-Audio]

Sounds cool man.(plastic/metal casing?) thats all you had to say..if i had internet access i wouldnt even of had to ask. And if i may add..i dont recall ever slamming your gear...i'd have no reason to. Again i was merely getting at whats "best" for one person may not be the "best" for another. And that statement is directed toward numerous people...it is not a personal attack on you. Just seems like more and more around here if your opinion doesnt conform with the "majority" then youre the dick. Which is unfortunate. Anyhow.                 peace.                    j

I never said you were slamming my gear. You must conform here its just the way it is...  I know about microphones its one of the few things I know something about.

Chris