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Author Topic: Measure max\average amplitude?  (Read 9480 times)

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Offline StarkRavingCalm

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Measure max\average amplitude?
« on: March 30, 2015, 08:32:10 AM »
I have been going thru my recordings to mix and master them and I realize that I mastered some of them a little too 'hot'.
I probably need to re-do most of them but it would save me alot of time if I knew which were of an acceptable level.

Does anyone know of software out there that will analyze a wav and tell you peak and average amplitude?
I dont see a way to get this data from Audacity, CDWave, foobar, etc...
A scripted solution would be perfect as I could just point it at a directory and have it read all of them.
I see some perl modules out there to analyze audio data but havent been able to get it work out of the box.


Thanks

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Measure max\average amplitude?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2015, 09:16:08 AM »
You are definitely on the right path.  When I post-process a recording I always take notes on the avg RMS levels and the peak levels. I write that down in a notebook, and it also includes my location in the venue, mic pattern, the gear I ran and the gain I ran.  That information is absolutely invaluable for estimating the required amount of gain, pattern choice, etc, at future performances.

There is a really great free command line tool, called normalize.  I love that tool, and I've been using it for over a dozen years. It will report levels, and set levels based on peak, or avg RMS.  It can just increase gain, or it can do compression to raise the avg RMS while avoiding clipping (that is the default). It can treat multiple tracks independently, or it can scan and adjust all of them so they are uniform (batch mode).

You can have it add a fixed amount of gain to files, you can have it just apply a limiter, etc. It is very powerful.

To scan some files and just report the levels:

% normalize -n *wav
Computing levels...
  level        peak         gain
-33.7506dBFS -4.0635dBFS  21.7506dB  w1.wav

In that example, file w1.wav is just a random file. -33dBFS is the avg RMS level (that's really low). It peaks at -4dBFS. The default behavior of normalize is the adjust and compress as necessary so the avg RMS is -12dB. That is pretty hot.  So if I ran it with default settings, it would increase the gain by 21.75dB, but it would first compress the audio to prevent clipping.

I don't normally compress my audio in this way.  But an exception is when I use this tool to quickly take a recording, with individual tracks, and make a "car" version that is louder for windows-down driving, etc.


Normalize

   This is release 0.7.7 of Normalize, an audio file volume normalizer.

You can get it from here:

http://normalize.nongnu.org/


Offline Sloan Simpson

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Re: Measure max\average amplitude?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2015, 10:54:17 AM »
Does anyone know of software out there that will analyze a wav and tell you peak and average amplitude?

http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/es/es/download

TT Dynamic Range Meter. You can use it as a plugin for something you're currently working on, or there's an offline version you can use to scan existing files.

Offline Ultfris101

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Re: Measure max\average amplitude?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2015, 10:58:13 AM »
I'll have to check these out. I've been thinking about the same thing lately.

Especially when I combine with video I'm trying to figure out how much I need to compress and/or add gain to get to standard RMS values. Partly I want to fit in with videos others make and not be lots quieter or louder but also to give some consistency to my output.

Seems like targeting about -14dBFS to -12 dBFS RMS is about right but measuring that rather than eyeballing the meters in Samplitude I haven't figure out how to do yet (just need time to research).


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Offline capnhook

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Re: Measure max\average amplitude?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2015, 05:17:40 PM »
Does anyone know of software out there that will analyze a wav and tell you peak and average amplitude?

http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/es/es/download

TT Dynamic Range Meter. You can use it as a plugin for something you're currently working on, or there's an offline version you can use to scan existing files.

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Offline voltronic

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Re: Measure max\average amplitude?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2015, 09:49:01 PM »
Does anyone know of software out there that will analyze a wav and tell you peak and average amplitude?

http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/es/es/download

TT Dynamic Range Meter. You can use it as a plugin for something you're currently working on, or there's an offline version you can use to scan existing files.

This is the way to go.  I use the Foobar component available here:
http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/de/free-downloads

Just load your file / files into Foobar and it spits out a .txt file in the directory of said files that shows exactly what you're looking for.
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Offline StarkRavingCalm

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Re: Measure max\average amplitude?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2015, 01:21:59 PM »
need to play with normalize some more but the Dynamice Range component in Foobar has expired?

"This foobar2000 component has an expiration date set to 1 September 2011. Around this date the Pleasurize Music Foundation has planned an update for the Dynamic Range Meters and the foobar2000 component. These releases will have an updated algorithm for the DR metering.

Please update this component. The latest information can be found on the website www.pleasurizemusic.com."

That's where I downloaded from....

Offline StarkRavingCalm

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Re: Measure max\average amplitude?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2015, 01:23:54 PM »
While the discussion is still open...

Most people like to record around -12db, is it safe to say most people like to master at 0db?

Offline goodcooker

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Re: Measure max\average amplitude?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2015, 01:36:48 PM »
While the discussion is still open...

Most people like to record around -12db, is it safe to say most people like to master at 0db?

I increase gain to -2dB then add a little Waves LC3 compression with the output ceiling at -1dB. Gives it just a little extra oomph but sounds really natural with little to no chance of overs.
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Measure max\average amplitude?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2015, 07:05:16 PM »
need to play with normalize some more but the Dynamice Range component in Foobar has expired?

"This foobar2000 component has an expiration date set to 1 September 2011. Around this date the Pleasurize Music Foundation has planned an update for the Dynamic Range Meters and the foobar2000 component. These releases will have an updated algorithm for the DR metering.

Please update this component. The latest information can be found on the website www.pleasurizemusic.com."

That's where I downloaded from....
You could try this one.  I'm using 1.1.0 with foobar and it hasn't "expired"...
http://www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/index.php?showtopic=101980
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Offline dabbler

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Re: Measure max\average amplitude?
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2015, 03:45:00 AM »
I love the sox stats effect.  It's actually typed almost instinctively with every invocation I run :D

  sox $INPUT -n stats

On any existing file shows peaks, RMS Peaks (over 50ms windows), RMS level, Flat factor, Pk count, etc without writing anything to disk ("-n" means to not generate an output file in the above example)

Once the final file is encoded to FLAC, I might also use "metaflac --add-replay-gain $OUTPUT" to see what the ReplayGain standard thinks of it.

I used to shoot for peaks around -12 dB, but lately I've been inching my way higher and higher to avoid self noise during quieter moments.  I usually leave at least 0.5 dB headroom after limiting to avoid clips when resampling or doing lossy encoding.  sox issues a warning if there's even a single clipped sample introduced at any stage of the effects chain, including resampling and lossy encoding (but AFAIK, a single clipped sample, or even a small handful is not audible).

Offline StarkRavingCalm

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Re: Measure max\average amplitude?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2015, 12:05:52 PM »
Here is sox output for a show I taped on Friday.
What should be my focus?


             Overall     Left      Right
DC offset  -0.000031 -0.000031 -0.000031
Min level  -0.166111 -0.166111 -0.146197
Max level   0.125307  0.125307  0.124587
Pk lev dB     -15.59    -15.59    -16.70
RMS lev dB    -35.66    -35.37    -35.97
RMS Pk dB     -23.92    -23.92    -25.48
RMS Tr dB     -68.09    -66.40    -68.09
Crest factor       -      9.75      9.19
Flat factor     0.00      0.00      0.00
Pk count           2         2         2
Bit-depth      22/24     22/24     22/24
Num samples     195M
Length s    4066.224
Scale max   1.000000
Window s       0.050

Offline dabbler

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Re: Measure max\average amplitude?
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2015, 06:50:00 AM »
The "Pk lev dB" puts you at -15.59, so you can add around 15dB to both channels without introducing any clipping and still have -0.59 dB headroom on the left channel.  Most everything else is left to taste :)

I always save the stats output of the original file to a text file so I can know how much gain to add to a recording instead of using the sox "gain -n" (normalize) effect, as "gain -n" requires decoding + scanning the entire file every time before knowing what gain to apply.

You can compress and EQ (downwards) further, too, depending on where your peaks are.  If your Pk count or Flat Factor increases, you might be in trouble.  I suggest listening carefully with decent headphones or IEMs to better detect audible clipping.  I've found it much easier to detect distortion (or any other flaws) using headphones than even good nearfield speakers.

You can also try comparing RMS stats from your recording to some existing releases from the same artist (assuming you like the audio engineering of the artist's releases) if you want your recording to be competitive with the studio stuff in shuffle.

That said, this is just what I'm doing myself nowadays, but I'm still endlessly tweaking my recordings and not sharing much, yet...

Offline StarkRavingCalm

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Re: Measure max\average amplitude?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2015, 04:51:26 PM »
Ok, different file:

BEFORE:

          Overall     Left      Right
DC offset  -0.000031 -0.000031 -0.000031
Min level  -0.203824 -0.203824 -0.195891
Max level   0.213292  0.181262  0.213292
Pk lev dB     -13.42    -13.81    -13.42
RMS lev dB    -33.84    -33.70    -33.98
RMS Pk dB     -22.33    -22.33    -22.57
RMS Tr dB     -66.59    -66.59    -65.87
Crest factor       -      9.87     10.66
Flat factor     0.00      0.00      0.00
Pk count           2         2         2
Bit-depth      22/24     22/24     22/24
Num samples     222M
Length s    4617.144
Scale max   1.000000
Window s       0.050



AFTER:

        Overall     Left      Right
DC offset  -0.000124 -0.000124 -0.000124
Min level  -0.811439 -0.811439 -0.779854
Max level   0.849132  0.721617  0.849132
Pk lev dB      -1.42     -1.81     -1.42
RMS lev dB    -21.84    -21.70    -21.98
RMS Pk dB     -10.33    -10.33    -10.57
RMS Tr dB     -54.59    -54.59    -53.87
Crest factor       -      9.87     10.66
Flat factor     0.00      0.00      0.00
Pk count           2         2         2
Bit-depth      24/24     24/24     24/24
Num samples     222M
Length s    4617.144
Scale max   1.000000
Window s       0.050



Raised db by +12 on the source and set Master Fader to 0db. This is where I ended up.

Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Measure max\average amplitude?
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2015, 03:35:46 PM »
You don't need to leave the dc offset in...  I'd argue for removing it, though have no idea how to do that with command line programs. 
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