Topic: 8-channel multi-track hard drive recorders?

[TNJazz]

Thanks yet again +T

I have 18 channels of preamps at this time. I of course plan to buy more rack mount preamps as I am able. Presonus and Onyx probably would not be on the top of the list. But obviously possible. I don't record at 96K EVER either though have been able to for four years. I might have once. I think it is overkill and a storage gobbler. It has it's time and place but that is not a live rock concert IMO. A fair amount of the time I could get some line inputs when I need more than I have for preamps. Obviously 24 channels is more than enough for a lot of bands. At least ones I work with.

So what are you using for preamps?  Alesis converters are not bad at all, especially with good preamps in front of them.  I have a friend who still uses ADATs as his converters (although he does have very high end pres)

Dirk

[cyfan]

Tim, you can move tracks via the Fireport (sold separately for about $199 new) or via built in ethernet (the HD24 acts like an FTP server and can be connected to any computer network).  After every show I back mine up and work on the project files in Nuendo.

Thanks much for the input. I read somewhere that the HD24 lacks attenuation. Are you able to control the gain (plus AND minus) on each channel coming in?

Tim
+t for the prior aid

[TNJazz]

Tim, you can move tracks via the Fireport (sold separately for about $199 new) or via built in ethernet (the HD24 acts like an FTP server and can be connected to any computer network).  After every show I back mine up and work on the project files in Nuendo.

Thanks much for the input. I read somewhere that the HD24 lacks attenuation. Are you able to control the gain (plus AND minus) on each channel coming in?

Tim
+t for the prior aid

No, there are no controls for gain.  Another reason you need preamps, or a console with a friendly engineer perhaps?

[cleantone]

So what are you using for preamps?  Alesis converters are not bad at all, especially with good preamps in front of them.

Nothing too crazy. I haven't bough any gear in a couple years. I have a V3, 4 channels of Aphex 207, and a soundcraft spirit console for the other 12 pre's. If and when I can afford I would purchase various other preamps to add to the list. You know how that goes.

Are you saying that the regular (non XR) A/D's are decent? I'm sure they are decent or usable. It sounds like the big reason to get the XR is to do above 48khz recording then. Do you think that both units running at 48khz, one using the normal stock A/D and one with the XR stock A/D would have a big audible difference? I have MOTU 896 (non HD) currently for A/D so I imagine that would be comparible to this unit to some extent. It is not as if I have or could afford top of the line A/D anytime soon.

I wish units like this would at least have a line pad. I have interfaced with a lot of consoles that are sending a hot signal and at +4 line with no gain my MOTU units clip and the console doesn't show peaking. This would be coming of groups and sometimes directs too.

[TNJazz]

So what are you using for preamps?  Alesis converters are not bad at all, especially with good preamps in front of them.

Nothing too crazy. I haven't bough any gear in a couple years. I have a V3, 4 channels of Aphex 207, and a soundcraft spirit console for the other 12 pre's. If and when I can afford I would purchase various other preamps to add to the list. You know how that goes.

Are you saying that the regular (non XR) A/D's are decent? I'm sure they are decent or usable. It sounds like the big reason to get the XR is to do above 48khz recording then. Do you think that both units running at 48khz, one using the normal stock A/D and one with the XR stock A/D would have a big audible difference? I have MOTU 896 (non HD) currently for A/D so I imagine that would be comparible to this unit to some extent. It is not as if I have or could afford top of the line A/D anytime soon.

I wish units like this would at least have a line pad. I have interfaced with a lot of consoles that are sending a hot signal and at +4 line with no gain my MOTU units clip and the console doesn't show peaking. This would be coming of groups and sometimes directs too.

I have not done a direct comparison between the two, but the XR version's converters are newer and are somewhat higher quality than the original converters (simply because they are a more recent design and have benefitted from technology advances since the original HD24 was released).  Their main benefit is 96kHz via analog inputs however.  I don't know if the difference would be audible to most folks (if even at all) if both were run at 48kHz side by side.  I don't think the original HD24's analog converters are bad at all - Alesis makes a significant number of converters for other manufacturers, so it wouldn't be all that likely they'd stick crap in their own branded machines.

You can still do 96k on the original HD24, but only via lightpipe (and only a max of 12 because of S/MUX), so yes the big draw of the HD24XR is the ability to do 24 tracks of 96kHz.

I would rate the Alesis converters at least on par with the MOTU converters overall, at 48k.  Not a bad deal you've got there, with the pres and the console.  I like the Soundcraft preamps - I think they have a nice sound.  Haven't heard the Aphex in person but it looks nice and I've read some pretty good things about it.

And I agree, I wish there was a pad on the input, or at least a way to go from +4 to -10 with jumpers or something (maybe there is, I haven't looked too hard).
Dirk

[live2496]

The HD24 is easily the best thing I've bought in recent memory.  It just works. Dirk

There's some refurbs on eBay for $800.
Can you move the individual tracks from the HD24 to a computer for mastering? If so, how?
Or do you have to do it on the unit itself.

tim

The HD24 can be setup as an FTP server. This is one of the very cool features of it.
You can ftp in AIFF or WAV format. You setup an IP address for it and use a crossover cable to a laptop/desktop or use a straight thru cable and a switch. However the interface is 10 mbit, not fast by today's standards.

I have tried to plug an HD24 drive directly to a windows computer (IDE), but it can't recognize the partition. Alesis seems to have locked users out with that. Maybe it's a linux partition ?

As someone mentioned, there is no control over levels on the machine.

Gordon
 

[cleantone]

Is there a solo button? I REALLY hope so. If not what are you guys doing to monitor?

[TNJazz]

Is there a solo button? I REALLY hope so. If not what are you guys doing to monitor?

No solo button; no headphone out either.  It doesn't have a mixer or anything.

I don't monitor at all in a live situation.  I've never felt the need to do it.  If I wanted to I could run the lightpipes out of the HD24 and do it on the Fireface I guess.

[cyfan]

No solo button; no headphone out either.  It doesn't have a mixer or anything.

So any mixing of the individual tracks has to be done as a post mix on a PC or other mixing board?

tim

[cleantone]

So any mixing of the individual tracks has to be done as a post mix on a PC or other mixing board?

Yeah. Might as well thing of it as a tape machine. That is about it's only function. It records and playsback.

The monitoring doesn't surprise me but does bug the hell out of me. I don't know why these units don't have a solo button, headphone jack, and some sort of monitor output that could go to speakers. This means I would have to run into a console before the unit to monitor my signal. Help know if there is a ground buzz. To know if things are plugged in right. To make sure mic placement sounds good. That is discouraging to me. Does the unit pass signal as it records? If so you could make some sort of monitoring box with solo buttons and a heaphone amp. I'm glad I asked about this.

[TNJazz]

So any mixing of the individual tracks has to be done as a post mix on a PC or other mixing board?

Yeah. Might as well thing of it as a tape machine. That is about it's only function. It records and playsback.

The monitoring doesn't surprise me but does bug the hell out of me. I don't know why these units don't have a solo button, headphone jack, and some sort of monitor output that could go to speakers. This means I would have to run into a console before the unit to monitor my signal. Help know if there is a ground buzz. To know if things are plugged in right. To make sure mic placement sounds good. That is discouraging to me. Does the unit pass signal as it records? If so you could make some sort of monitoring box with solo buttons and a heaphone amp. I'm glad I asked about this.

yes it passes signal.  It's really just a 24 channel tape machine, minus the tape.  To do monitoring, soloing, etc. you'd need a board either in front or behind the box.

Come to think of it, it DOES have 24 analog outputs though.  You could probably plug a headphone amp into each channel as needed to "solo" the track for mic placement.  Hmmm, now you've got me thinking about a DIY project...

[cyfan]

I'm seriously considering getting one o' these HD24's ... and fairly soon.
While I actually would prefer to mix the tracks later on a PC, I'm troubled by the lack of control over the signal coming in.
If I get one, it sounds like I'll need some attenuators between the soundboard and the unit, which I can live with.
But...
While you can't monitor what you're recording, are there at least some meters to see whether any of the individual channels are clipping? That's been an issue for me in doing patchwork multi-tracks in the past...

If there's no monitors I'm exploring other options.

[bluegrass_brad]

Come to think of it, it DOES have 24 analog outputs though.  You could probably plug a headphone amp into each channel as needed to "solo" the track for mic placement.  Hmmm, now you've got me thinking about a DIY project...

this is exactly what I did in situations where I didnt have the ability to solo channels, but most if the time I did as our monitor board had an XLR split built in to it.  I would just solo on the board

[bluegrass_brad]

I'm seriously considering getting one o' these HD24's ... and fairly soon.
While I actually would prefer to mix the tracks later on a PC, I'm troubled by the lack of control over the signal coming in.
If I get one, it sounds like I'll need some attenuators between the soundboard and the unit, which I can live with.
But...
While you can't monitor what you're recording, are there at least some meters to see whether any of the individual channels are clipping? That's been an issue for me in doing patchwork multi-tracks in the past...

If there's no monitors I'm exploring other options.

The HD-24 does have really good metering.  Has peak hold, etc. as well. This thing takes professional levels. So unless the FOH engineer is clipping his levels, the direct signal from the board shouldnt be too hot.  If the gain for the direct outputs isnt ganged to the gain for the channel, then it will have its own volume control, so you can just ask the FOH to turn it down a bit and its no problem as it wont effect any of his settings, only the volume going out to you.

[cleantone]

You would only need 24 TRS connectors, 24 on/off button switches, and one headphone amp. I would just have to put some thought into how to best connect it all, one rack unit in size would be awesome. It must be a cost effectiveness situation but I REALLY think these type of units should have a solo button. It just makes sense. It would be SO helpful in the field. With a console your all set but with rack preamps you would need to route to a mixer for monitoring. Maybe a small 24 channel rackmount mixer that was used only to monitor would be best. I'll have to give that some thought.