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Author Topic: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?  (Read 26148 times)

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Offline robertmode

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what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« on: January 17, 2012, 06:51:50 AM »
Hello

who can give his viewpoint and experience?

Yours sincerely.
Robert
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 06:53:49 AM by robertmode »

Offline vanark

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2012, 08:22:46 AM »
The devil is in the details...  As in, if you provide even a little, you might get better answers.  What equipment is the jack used with?  What issues are you having?  Do you have a sample?

In a very general sense, cheap cables tend to be unshielded which could lead to unwanted interference from other devices, such as cell phones.  I've not had the problem, but it has been reported.
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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2012, 10:34:45 AM »
#1 is a noisy/intermittant connection due to dirt/contamination in the jack or on the plug.  Clean well with isopropyl alcohol, or a product like Deoxit.
#2 is a noisy/intermittant connection due to a mechanical problem, such as a broken solder joint or conductor.  Resolder it or replace the connector. 

Be careful to keep your plugs and jacks clean and to reduce the mechanical stress on them by gaff taping the connection down and using small right angle plugs where possible instead of straight plugs that stick out like a lever.
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Offline robertmode

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2012, 01:26:48 PM »
Hello,
Thanks for your help!
I wrote this topic  in a very general sense.

Yours sincerely.
Robert

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2012, 02:45:24 PM »
Cheap mini jacks have crap coatings on them that dont conduct signals very well. The best mini jacks in the world are made by switchcraft and Neutrik.
Also the cable used in cheap patch cables can be crap high in capacitance and poor shielding.

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Offline hi and lo

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 11:12:15 PM »
Since you asked in a general sense, I'll gladly reinforce something I and others have echoed on this board multiple times. The 3.5mm stereo mini connector is quite possible the single worst option for 'what we do.' Anytime you are recording in the field, you should opt to use locking type connectors from high quality, reliable manufacturers. It's all to easy to accidentally unplug a mini jack and they are, in general, more prone to cable strain relief problems and developing shorts over time.

Chris will probably disagree with me, which is fine, but personally I avoid these connectors at all costs. Quality mini xlr connectors can be had at marginally higher cost and are a much better option when their larger size is permitted. And of course... if you have to use a mini jack, do use a high a quality neutrik or switchcraft and Mr. Church recommends.

Offline TimeBandit

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2012, 12:44:19 PM »
cheapo connectors or just the straight ones will disconnect easy. but the neutrik / switchcraft ones (which Chris usually uses) fit really tight and aren't that easy to remove (+ in combination with 90degree angled connector).

no matter locking connectors will be the best, but the difference between those cheapo minijack and some really good ones real matters.
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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2012, 01:41:16 PM »
Agreed on the preference for mini-XLR where possible, partly the more substantial mechanical conection, partly the locking feature (the ability to have multi-pins for more conductors is another an advantage for some applications).

But mostly a reminder to gaff tape your mini TRS plugs and connections, even the good quality ones!  It's cheap, effective insurance!
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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2012, 01:48:36 PM »
Agreed on the preference for mini-XLR where possible, partly the more substantial mechanical conection, partly the locking feature (the ability to have multi-pins for more conductors is another an advantage for some applications).

But mostly a reminder to gaff tape your mini TRS plugs and connections, even the good quality ones!  It's cheap, effective insurance!
No Gaff on my gear please. Its not a good idea to tape down a connection better to have a proper case or put it in a location where the cable will not get unplugged, then to gaff it.
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Offline hi and lo

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2012, 02:12:56 PM »
Agreed on the preference for mini-XLR where possible, partly the more substantial mechanical conection, partly the locking feature (the ability to have multi-pins for more conductors is another an advantage for some applications).

But mostly a reminder to gaff tape your mini TRS plugs and connections, even the good quality ones!  It's cheap, effective insurance!
No Gaff on my gear please. Its not a good idea to tape down a connection better to have a proper case or put it in a location where the cable will not get unplugged, then to gaff it.

???

As long as the gaff tape isn't directly on the connector which would leave residue, I don't see why this isn't sound advice. Velcro is better, but I recommend you always gaff tape your stereo mini plug when in the field when possible. It's easy to do and shouldn't put any undue stress on the connector if done correctly.

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2012, 07:04:11 AM »
Agreed on the preference for mini-XLR where possible, partly the more substantial mechanical conection, partly the locking feature (the ability to have multi-pins for more conductors is another an advantage for some applications).

But mostly a reminder to gaff tape your mini TRS plugs and connections, even the good quality ones!  It's cheap, effective insurance!
No Gaff on my gear please. Its not a good idea to tape down a connection better to have a proper case or put it in a location where the cable will not get unplugged, then to gaff it.

???

As long as the gaff tape isn't directly on the connector which would leave residue, I don't see why this isn't sound advice. Velcro is better, but I recommend you always gaff tape your stereo mini plug when in the field when possible. It's easy to do and shouldn't put any undue stress on the connector if done correctly.
I dont feel like arguing with you after being a sound engineer for over 20 years now I know from personal experience that using gaff tape on cables ruins them with that sticky residue that it leaves on the cable I have actually seen some gaff tape destroy cables when used in high heat or in the sun for extended periods of time. But more than that using gaff tape on a cable can actually cause strain on the connector and straight relief of the cable it self causing it to fail. I personally think if you must use something get a strip of Velcro and use that. Its removable with no residue.


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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2012, 07:43:53 AM »
I've been told the money I spent for mini-XLR's on my Church Preamp was money wasted...


I'll think back to this thread and laugh if I ever hear that again...
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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2012, 09:25:32 AM »
I've been taping for about three years now. Every tape I've made with my gear has used 3.5mm mini-plug at every connection. I had one issue where I didn't fully engage the plug (idiot taper error), but have never had anything become unplugged while taping.

I have had two issues with RF interference. One of these times I was taping on a college campus in front of the building that contained their radio station. I picked up their signal on one source ("Hey, where did that banjo come from?") I was running two rigs that day, all with mini-jack plugs (CA-14 c&o, CA-BB, CA-9100). The patch cable used on the affected source was thrown out and haven't had an issue since. The other source was unaffected. The other time I had another taper beside me using XLR cables and he got hit also.

I've also used a 20' Radio Shack extension cable several times from the 9100 to the Sony PCM D50 with no issues. I did spring for the right angle Neutrik plugs on my CA-14s and would probably only buy patch cables made that way from now on. The patch cables I use to go from the CA-9100/CA-BB to the recorders now are from Radio Shack. Some of the alarmists here on taperssection will tell you I'm playing with fire and have gotten lucky on the 200+ quality (IMO) recordings I've made. Whatever.

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Offline Church-Audio

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2012, 09:26:22 AM »
I've been told the money I spent for mini-XLR's on my Church Preamp was money wasted...


I'll think back to this thread and laugh if I ever hear that again...
I dont get it? I never said buying mini xlr connectors was a waste of money. I just said for most people 3.5 mm connectors used on my preamps and lots of other consumer products also work just fine as long as you take care not to unplug them.... I have two options for locking connectors now on all of my preamps. I dont consider them a waste of money. But for most people they get along just fine with 3.5 mm connectors.
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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2012, 10:11:34 AM »
Agreed on the preference for mini-XLR where possible, partly the more substantial mechanical conection, partly the locking feature (the ability to have multi-pins for more conductors is another an advantage for some applications).

But mostly a reminder to gaff tape your mini TRS plugs and connections, even the good quality ones!  It's cheap, effective insurance!
No Gaff on my gear please. Its not a good idea to tape down a connection better to have a proper case or put it in a location where the cable will not get unplugged, then to gaff it.

???

As long as the gaff tape isn't directly on the connector which would leave residue, I don't see why this isn't sound advice. Velcro is better, but I recommend you always gaff tape your stereo mini plug when in the field when possible. It's easy to do and shouldn't put any undue stress on the connector if done correctly.
I dont feel like arguing with you after being a sound engineer for over 20 years now I know from personal experience that using gaff tape on cables ruins them with that sticky residue that it leaves on the cable I have actually seen some gaff tape destroy cables when used in high heat or in the sun for extended periods of time. But more than that using gaff tape on a cable can actually cause strain on the connector and straight relief of the cable it self causing it to fail. I personally think if you must use something get a strip of Velcro and use that. Its removable with no residue.

Arguing?

Good tape should leave little-to-no residue and a proper tape job shouldn't put unnecessary stress on a connector, it should do the opposite and prevent stress.

Sound engineering experience is quite frequently not applicable to our hobby. We are in the field running hand-held recordings in the pockets of our jeans. It's far more important to ensure an accident won't occur that worry about long-term damage to what is, generally, very inexpensive audio equipment.


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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2012, 11:09:51 AM »
I gaff tape alot of my cables in place with no issues,  Got residue......

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2012, 11:29:56 AM »
I gaff tape alot of my cables in place with no issues,  Got residue......


Googone eats at the cable not a good idea. It actually dries them out. But again I dont have any experience with taping only with audio engineering :)
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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2012, 11:32:43 AM »
Cheap mini jacks have crap coatings on them that dont conduct signals very well. The best mini jacks in the world are made by switchcraft and Neutrik.
Also the cable used in cheap patch cables can be crap high in capacitance and poor shielding.

Which is why I had you make me a long cable with Mogami wire and good connectors. I have used cheap Radio Shack headphone extension cables between your mics and one of your preamps with no problem but I never really trusted that setup. I feel much better when I use the better quality cable.
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Offline Church-Audio

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2012, 11:34:10 AM »
Agreed on the preference for mini-XLR where possible, partly the more substantial mechanical conection, partly the locking feature (the ability to have multi-pins for more conductors is another an advantage for some applications).

But mostly a reminder to gaff tape your mini TRS plugs and connections, even the good quality ones!  It's cheap, effective insurance!
No Gaff on my gear please. Its not a good idea to tape down a connection better to have a proper case or put it in a location where the cable will not get unplugged, then to gaff it.

???

As long as the gaff tape isn't directly on the connector which would leave residue, I don't see why this isn't sound advice. Velcro is better, but I recommend you always gaff tape your stereo mini plug when in the field when possible. It's easy to do and shouldn't put any undue stress on the connector if done correctly.
I dont feel like arguing with you after being a sound engineer for over 20 years now I know from personal experience that using gaff tape on cables ruins them with that sticky residue that it leaves on the cable I have actually seen some gaff tape destroy cables when used in high heat or in the sun for extended periods of time. But more than that using gaff tape on a cable can actually cause strain on the connector and straight relief of the cable it self causing it to fail. I personally think if you must use something get a strip of Velcro and use that. Its removable with no residue.

Arguing?

Good tape should leave little-to-no residue and a proper tape job shouldn't put unnecessary stress on a connector, it should do the opposite and prevent stress.

Sound engineering experience is quite frequently not applicable to our hobby. We are in the field running hand-held recordings in the pockets of our jeans. It's far more important to ensure an accident won't occur that worry about long-term damage to what is, generally, very inexpensive audio equipment.

Ok I have no experience in taping :) I just happen to make one of the most popular little mics and preamps for doing it. That does not make any sense to me at all. But carry on  ::) I dont know anything about 3.5 mm jacks and the stress tape puts on cables and connectors when you have to rip it off. And yeah there is lots of good quality tapes that dont leave that much residue but not everybody is using high quality tape thats why I recommend Velcro if you feel the need to do anything that would be my number one choice. But again "taping id different" than audio engineering so you better not take my word for it lol....
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Offline tgakidis

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2012, 11:40:08 AM »
Googone eats at the cable not a good idea. It actually dries them out. But again I dont have any experience with taping only with audio engineering :)

That's why I apply a vitamin E enriched moisturizing lotion to prevent drying and cracking.  If you use Oil of Olay it makes the cables look younger too!  :P

Seriously though Chris, someone must have pissed in your cheerios today because you are fired up.  I for one appreciate your years of experience and knowledge, carry on....
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 11:42:14 AM by tgakidis »
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Offline TimeBandit

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2012, 11:46:41 AM »
I've been taping for about three years now. Every tape I've made with my gear has used 3.5mm mini-plug at every connection. I had one issue where I didn't fully engage the plug (idiot taper error), but have never had anything become unplugged while taping.

same to me making the mistake of using "cheaper" cable + straight connectors, dropped the recorder into pocket and the cable went out. the cheaper cable was easy to (re)move in the socket while the Church one fits really tight.
since them i had no problems but still have to take care about how to fit the gear into the pocket so no connector issue happens. Will make a solution for me that Preamp and recorder can take place in one pocket like a digital PS camera case.
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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2012, 11:53:51 AM »
I've been taping for about three years now. Every tape I've made with my gear has used 3.5mm mini-plug at every connection. I had one issue where I didn't fully engage the plug (idiot taper error), but have never had anything become unplugged while taping.

same to me making the mistake of using "cheaper" cable + straight connectors, dropped the recorder into pocket and the cable went out. the cheaper cable was easy to (re)move in the socket while the Church one fits really tight.
since them i had no problems but still have to take care about how to fit the gear into the pocket so no connector issue happens. Will make a solution for me that Preamp and recorder can take place in one pocket like a digital PS camera case.

I have to wonder if the tip end of the connector was poorly designed so that it didn't 'lock' properly. I realize that we are talking about a more passive lock than say an XLR connector.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2012, 12:31:03 PM »
I defer to Mr. Church's expertice.

However if you do use gaff tape (on other things  ;)) get the very best you can find.  Yeah the stuff is expensive as rolls of adhesive tape go, but a ~$35 roll lasts a few years for me and the lack of headache from goo, hard residue, lack of decent adhesion and often less than square right-angle ripping of inferior gaff tape is easily worth it.  It's a wonder tool!
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Offline darktrain

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2012, 12:46:35 PM »
I've been taping for about three years now. Every tape I've made with my gear has used 3.5mm mini-plug at every connection. I had one issue where I didn't fully engage the plug (idiot taper error), but have never had anything become unplugged while taping.

same to me making the mistake of using "cheaper" cable + straight connectors, dropped the recorder into pocket and the cable went out. the cheaper cable was easy to (re)move in the socket while the Church one fits really tight.
since them i had no problems but still have to take care about how to fit the gear into the pocket so no connector issue happens. Will make a solution for me that Preamp and recorder can take place in one pocket like a digital PS camera case.

Cheap cable is one thing but whether the plug is right angle or straight has nothing to do with quality. In fact straight connectors are more ideal than RA depending how you use you gear. I have a Tinybox and it holds the miniplug tighter than any other i have seen and used, whatever part Jon uses for that 1/8 input its great, and i use straight plugs for that and never a issue and I 90%  record "less than open". I have made lots of cables where people requested RA at both ends only to later realize that one end RA and one straight actually is much more versitile and useful so I will kinly make that suggestion now.

Offline hi and lo

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2012, 04:32:22 PM »
Googone eats at the cable not a good idea. It actually dries them out. But again I dont have any experience with taping only with audio engineering :)

Seriously though Chris, someone must have pissed in your cheerios today because you are fired up.  I for one appreciate your years of experience and knowledge, carry on....

I appreciate it as well, but the sarcastic attitude is hardly necessary. What applies in the professional world does not always apply to our hobbiest/amateur efforts, yet the tone of conversation is that there is only one truth.

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2012, 05:57:27 PM »
Agreed on the preference for mini-XLR where possible, partly the more substantial mechanical conection, partly the locking feature (the ability to have multi-pins for more conductors is another an advantage for some applications).

But mostly a reminder to gaff tape your mini TRS plugs and connections, even the good quality ones!  It's cheap, effective insurance!
No Gaff on my gear please. Its not a good idea to tape down a connection better to have a proper case or put it in a location where the cable will not get unplugged, then to gaff it.

???

As long as the gaff tape isn't directly on the connector which would leave residue, I don't see why this isn't sound advice. Velcro is better, but I recommend you always gaff tape your stereo mini plug when in the field when possible. It's easy to do and shouldn't put any undue stress on the connector if done correctly.
I dont feel like arguing with you after being a sound engineer for over 20 years now I know from personal experience that using gaff tape on cables ruins them with that sticky residue that it leaves on the cable I have actually seen some gaff tape destroy cables when used in high heat or in the sun for extended periods of time. But more than that using gaff tape on a cable can actually cause strain on the connector and straight relief of the cable it self causing it to fail. I personally think if you must use something get a strip of Velcro and use that. Its removable with no residue.

Arguing?

Good tape should leave little-to-no residue and a proper tape job shouldn't put unnecessary stress on a connector, it should do the opposite and prevent stress.

Sound engineering experience is quite frequently not applicable to our hobby. We are in the field running hand-held recordings in the pockets of our jeans. It's far more important to ensure an accident won't occur that worry about long-term damage to what is, generally, very inexpensive audio equipment.

Ok I have no experience in taping :) I just happen to make one of the most popular little mics and preamps for doing it. That does not make any sense to me at all. But carry on  ::) I dont know anything about 3.5 mm jacks and the stress tape puts on cables and connectors when you have to rip it off. And yeah there is lots of good quality tapes that dont leave that much residue but not everybody is using high quality tape thats why I recommend Velcro if you feel the need to do anything that would be my number one choice. But again "taping id different" than audio engineering so you better not take my word for it lol....

Chris

please check your pm's and get back to me

ild

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2012, 06:10:53 PM »

Chris

please check your pm's and get back to me

ild

You might try emailing Chris.  His email address is in his signature. He consistently asks people to email him.  Just a suggestion.
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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2012, 07:56:49 PM »
I'll try, thanks   :P


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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2012, 10:09:12 PM »
Agreed on the preference for mini-XLR where possible, partly the more substantial mechanical conection, partly the locking feature (the ability to have multi-pins for more conductors is another an advantage for some applications).

But mostly a reminder to gaff tape your mini TRS plugs and connections, even the good quality ones!  It's cheap, effective insurance!
No Gaff on my gear please. Its not a good idea to tape down a connection better to have a proper case or put it in a location where the cable will not get unplugged, then to gaff it.

???

As long as the gaff tape isn't directly on the connector which would leave residue, I don't see why this isn't sound advice. Velcro is better, but I recommend you always gaff tape your stereo mini plug when in the field when possible. It's easy to do and shouldn't put any undue stress on the connector if done correctly.
I dont feel like arguing with you after being a sound engineer for over 20 years now I know from personal experience that using gaff tape on cables ruins them with that sticky residue that it leaves on the cable I have actually seen some gaff tape destroy cables when used in high heat or in the sun for extended periods of time. But more than that using gaff tape on a cable can actually cause strain on the connector and straight relief of the cable it self causing it to fail. I personally think if you must use something get a strip of Velcro and use that. Its removable with no residue.

Arguing?

Good tape should leave little-to-no residue and a proper tape job shouldn't put unnecessary stress on a connector, it should do the opposite and prevent stress.

Sound engineering experience is quite frequently not applicable to our hobby. We are in the field running hand-held recordings in the pockets of our jeans. It's far more important to ensure an accident won't occur that worry about long-term damage to what is, generally, very inexpensive audio equipment.

Ok I have no experience in taping :) I just happen to make one of the most popular little mics and preamps for doing it. That does not make any sense to me at all. But carry on  ::) I dont know anything about 3.5 mm jacks and the stress tape puts on cables and connectors when you have to rip it off. And yeah there is lots of good quality tapes that dont leave that much residue but not everybody is using high quality tape thats why I recommend Velcro if you feel the need to do anything that would be my number one choice. But again "taping id different" than audio engineering so you better not take my word for it lol....

Chris

please check your pm's and get back to me

ild

Dude I am beginning to think your stocking me. I did answer my PM from you yesterday please see my email with the cut and paste of the reply sent from the board to you. Also please delete your post in this thread it has nothing to do with the topic I will likewise do the same.
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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2012, 10:10:30 PM »
Googone eats at the cable not a good idea. It actually dries them out. But again I dont have any experience with taping only with audio engineering :)

That's why I apply a vitamin E enriched moisturizing lotion to prevent drying and cracking.  If you use Oil of Olay it makes the cables look younger too!  :P

Seriously though Chris, someone must have pissed in your cheerios today because you are fired up.  I for one appreciate your years of experience and knowledge, carry on....

Its the epoxy fumes :) your right I will not bother with arguing my point or experience.
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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2012, 10:10:51 PM »
Googone eats at the cable not a good idea. It actually dries them out. But again I dont have any experience with taping only with audio engineering :)

Seriously though Chris, someone must have pissed in your cheerios today because you are fired up.  I for one appreciate your years of experience and knowledge, carry on....





I appreciate it as well, but the sarcastic attitude is hardly necessary. What applies in the professional world does not always apply to our hobbiest/amateur efforts, yet the tone of conversation is that there is only one truth.
Truth "cheap gaff tape fucks up cables"
Truth "epoxy fumes makes me irritable"
Truth "  I AM ALWAYS RIGHT "
Truth " I am always right except for when I am wrong"|
Carry on.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 10:14:18 PM by Church-Audio »
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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2012, 08:20:28 AM »
I've been told the money I spent for mini-XLR's on my Church Preamp was money wasted...


I'll think back to this thread and laugh if I ever hear that again...
I dont get it? I never said buying mini xlr connectors was a waste of money. I just said for most people 3.5 mm connectors used on my preamps and lots of other consumer products also work just fine as long as you take care not to unplug them.... I have two options for locking connectors now on all of my preamps. I dont consider them a waste of money. But for most people they get along just fine with 3.5 mm connectors.
I appreciate that you give your customer the choice to configure the unit as the customer wants...some folks say things that are strange to me and that is why I'll laugh if they think it was money wasted

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Offline hi and lo

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2012, 10:04:18 AM »
No need to explain, Chris. I get it. In your narcissistic world, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a 3.5mm connector, but god forbid someone use gaff tape on a cable.

Carry on.

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2012, 11:47:34 AM »
No need to explain, Chris. I get it. In your narcissistic world, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a 3.5mm connector, but god forbid someone use gaff tape on a cable.

Carry on.

I dont think I am the one with the "self importance issue" Since your still arguing lol. I dont give a shit what you do. I just dont want my customers putting gaff tape on the cable I use. My point all along is to warn my customers against using Gaff tape something I feel I am more than qualified to do since I am the one that makes the products they may or may not gaff tape.
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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2012, 12:04:29 PM »
Chris,

Your time would probably be better spent responding to your customers' inquires and delivering their products in a timely manner (rather than many, many weeks after a promised delivery date) instead of arguing with me here. Professionalism takes a bit of time and effort.

Best

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2012, 12:28:59 PM »
No wire hangers!!



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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2012, 12:51:24 PM »
No wire hangers!!


You have a way with words unlike any other on this forum.  ;D

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2012, 03:27:13 PM »
Chris,

Your time would probably be better spent responding to your customers' inquires and delivering their products in a timely manner (rather than many, many weeks after a promised delivery date) instead of arguing with me here. Professionalism takes a bit of time and effort.

Best
Dam sounds like someone needs to get out more. Anyway I think I take care of my business just fine thank you for your concern! Its so nice to see someone care about my business! Maybe you should start up your own business and you can call it "GAFFTAPE AUDIO" That is so cool! you can sell mics with sticky cables! lol you just have to take things personal just because you dont like what I said funny shit. I stand by my words.

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2012, 03:40:00 PM »
Not to keep the horse flogging going, I think many people have no idea what is the difference between gaffers and duct (Duck) tape. That is just a general comment and not aimed at anyone. I've had a roll of gaffers tape in my car and haven't used more than a yard of the stuff in two years and that was mainly to try and tape the legs of a stand in place at one venue. I use velcro as much as I can in other places.

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Offline hi and lo

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2012, 04:48:14 PM »

Anyway I think I take care of my business just fine thank you for your concern!

A surprising number of your customers would disagree.

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2012, 04:53:19 PM »

Anyway I think I take care of my business just fine thank you for your concern!

A surprising number of your customers would disagree.
Sounds like someone should start there own business making gear! Say what ever you want you are the one that looks like an asshole here not me.
Personal attacks over gaff tape wow....
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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2012, 04:56:40 PM »
 :gun: :rockets:

actually wasn't this conversation about minijacks?

- locking connectors good. Locking connector locks.
- miniplug less good than locking connector, but still fine in most cases as long as one is careful

[according to Chris] gaff tape bad.  I have no idea why that makes sense, but I'm not claiming expertise in it.

What is here to "debate" exactly?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 04:58:32 PM by acidjack »
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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2012, 04:58:50 PM »

Anyway I think I take care of my business just fine thank you for your concern!

A surprising number of your customers would disagree.

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2012, 05:05:11 PM »
Speaking of locking connectors

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2012, 05:46:14 PM »

Anyway I think I take care of my business just fine thank you for your concern!

A surprising number of your customers would disagree.

I don't usually jump in on this type of thread!!   :-X :P ::) 8) :-*  ;D
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 10:32:50 PM by jmbell »
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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2012, 06:30:54 PM »
All I have to add is that I loves me some gaffer tape. :D
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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2012, 07:34:37 PM »
Chris and I have synced up privately and I would just like everyone know that any personal issues we have are, hopefully, resolved. We both would rather be friends than adversaries and have realized our frustrations were probably not expressed in the best possible manner.

Happy taping and good luck with whatever gear you run and however you choose to run it!

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2012, 07:39:49 PM »
Chris and I have synced up privately and I would just like everyone know that any personal issues we have are, hopefully, resolved. We both would rather be friends than adversaries and have realized our frustrations were probably not expressed in the best possible manner.

Happy taping and good luck with whatever gear you run and however you choose to run it!

 :-* Your a good guy. I am sorry. Life is way to short to argue over gaff tape! Thanks for reaching out.

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2012, 08:58:05 AM »
I've said it before, I'll say it again.  I've *NEVER* had an issue with using a 3.5mm (or 1/8") connection EVER.  Maybe I've been lucky but I'm generally "kid gloves" with all of my gear and that's why I've always been able to sell it for good money at the end of the day.

A locking connector may be better but if you ensure your mini jack cables are all plugged in properly, you'll have no issues.   

Must admit the debate between Chris and Hi and Lo was a good read. :)

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2012, 12:46:02 PM »
I've *NEVER* had an issue with using a 3.5mm (or 1/8") connection EVER.  Maybe I've been lucky but I'm generally "kid gloves" with all of my gear and that's why I've always been able to sell it for good money at the end of the day.

What is this "sell gear" you speak of?  That may be your mistake right there - selling gear.  If you were serious about your taping, you would not sell gear.

Ever been in a mosh pit at a primus show, holding down the fort with the Zman?

Ever had Iggy Pop stage dive on you while you were in the pit?

I have.  Fortunately, my taper instincts were spot on, and I was able to leap out of the way at the last moment, protecting my rig.  The rig was fine.  Iggy did not fare so well. Fortunately, there were some folding chairs there to catch him.  They did not look comfortable.  Was I supposed to catch him, or something?  My game was good - you can't even hear him writhing on the chairs in pain.

I have never, ever had an xlr or mini xlr fail me because it wasn't plugged in all the way, or had been dislodged.  Miniplug- YES.  Those things are shit.

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2012, 02:24:22 AM »
Well i NEVER had an issue with a mini jack UNTIL i started gaff taping the cable to my recorder
and or preamp!! Before i started this practice i had lots of problems. How about when you have to get up from
your seat to let folks get by and you have the recorder in your pocket? Or packed tight at a GA show with people
bumping up against you? It is such a flimsy connection that taping the cable is the only way to be sure of pulling
a tape without any cable issues.

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2012, 03:46:44 AM »
From a purely commercial viewpoint, my view is that if you returned a faulty cable, or unit it connects to, with adhesive residue on it, any supplier would be within his rights to say "warranty void due to abuse".  As Mr Church says, it screws cables but perhaps more importantly it attacks the electrical connection like acid. 

But from a purely practical viewpoint, taping down the cable to provide strain relief is probably quite sensible; the old Edirol RO-9 and it's appalling mic/line in design is the obvious example.

Applying any tape in such a manner is taboo in, for example, the aircraft industry as the outcome can be catastrophic.  But to a $400 taping rig where no-one is harmed if it goes wrong?  Let common sense prevail.  (I use a rubber band).   

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2012, 12:46:55 PM »
From a purely commercial viewpoint, my view is that if you returned a faulty cable, or unit it connects to, with adhesive residue on it, any supplier would be within his rights to say "warranty void due to abuse".  As Mr Church says, it screws cables but perhaps more importantly it attacks the electrical connection like acid. 

Of course, I don't care what people use... I prefer to use velcro whenever possible.  But some things can only be reasonably done with gaffer tape.   Like attaching a battery securely to a v3.

What you describe sounds like a company looking for an excuse to void a warranty.  Residue doesn't kill gear.  Who puts tape on electrical contacts?  That would be a different case, and extreme example.  That is one of the design faults of minijacks - the contacts are exposed, most commonly to finger oils.

Look at gaffer tape use in the film making industry.  When they are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars per hour (or in extreme cases, millions per shot), you employ people whose sole function is to gaffer tape the hell out of everything.

And with gaffer tape, residue is not likely unless the tape has been in place for more than 1.5 years (depending on environment).  The other case where residue might become a problem is when the heat has been somewhat extreme.  Inside a bag in summer, with hot gear, there can be temps that exceed the temp range for gaffer tape adhesive.  If you remove the tape under those conditions, the adhesive does not stay cohesive, and there can be residue.

I put gaffer tape on my cameras to improve the grip.  If you pinch it and stick it to itself, you can even create little ridges. I also put it in high wear spots to prevent wear.  The head of my Gitzo tripod is covered in gaffer tape to prevent nicks from rocks and other objects.

One of the neat things about GT is how many times I can re-use a piece.  I'll stick my "spares" on the surface of my dvd batteries, or on the legs of a stand.

Fwiw, I use common "duct tape" for almost nothing.  Hate the stuff, and the nasty adhesive.  Proper "duct tape", made of aluminum sheet, is neat stuff and useful for some situations where nothing else will really do.  It also tends to do well when subjected to moderate heat, because of the intended use on hot ducts.  Though I don't think I have ever used it with my recording gear.


Offline Church-Audio

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2012, 02:13:38 PM »
God are we still talking about Gaff tape? If I had the choice I would always choose velcro over gaff tape for securing a connection if you feel you must. And Yes the film industry does use gaff but I have been on 100s of sets and never seen anyone ever use it for cables on ac cables they use it all the time but that cable is much stronger than the thin cable used for mics..... They use rubber mats or cable tunnels. Or nothing if its not in the way. Again to each his own but if you think for one second the thin mogami wire I use and many other mic companies use cant be damaged by having to rip gaff tape from it think again. It does damage the cables. Thats why I say no to gaff tape. I have never had to use it unless it was a corporate gig. The companies I worked for would use carpet or cable tunnels and gaff the carpet down long before we would ever use tape on cables. So if you might damage your cables with gaff getting it off, if it gets stuck on there and it does from time to time. But you wont if you use velcro what's the argument? And if cables came to me that were all sticky from tape yeah I would void the warranty on my mics. I would charge the customer a fee to recable the mics. Wear and tear on cables happens not to many company's have any kind of warranty on cables. Anyway I was only speaking to my customers when I said please dont use gaff tape. If you need locking connectors I sell them and they are available on all the preamps I sell. In the end to each his or her own. This is just my opinion I never said it was the only opinion to have everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.

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Offline thunderbolt

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2012, 07:35:27 PM »
Chris and I have synced up privately and I would just like everyone know that any personal issues we have are, hopefully, resolved. We both would rather be friends than adversaries and have realized our frustrations were probably not expressed in the best possible manner.

Happy taping and good luck with whatever gear you run and however you choose to run it!

 :-* Your a good guy. I am sorry. Life is way to short to argue over gaff tape! Thanks for reaching out.

One of the things I appreciate about TS is the general civility and ethical conduct (e.g. pretty safe buying and selling, loaners, etc.).  There are other websites I used to visit, but I couldn't stand what they devolved into.  Thanks for patching things up--we could all take a lesson.


Offline Church-Audio

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2012, 07:51:31 PM »
Chris and I have synced up privately and I would just like everyone know that any personal issues we have are, hopefully, resolved. We both would rather be friends than adversaries and have realized our frustrations were probably not expressed in the best possible manner.

Happy taping and good luck with whatever gear you run and however you choose to run it!

 :-* Your a good guy. I am sorry. Life is way to short to argue over gaff tape! Thanks for reaching out.

One of the things I appreciate about TS is the general civility and ethical conduct (e.g. pretty safe buying and selling, loaners, etc.).  There are other websites I used to visit, but I couldn't stand what they devolved into.  Thanks for patching things up--we could all take a lesson.
it really is silly to argue over stupid shit we are all just trying to help one another that's the real reason why this board is here we are all socialist!! :)
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Offline cybergaloot

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2012, 07:53:21 PM »
we are all socialist!! :)

Oh, shit! Here comes the political arguments!  ;)
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Offline Duconlajoie

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #57 on: April 06, 2012, 09:09:34 PM »
As I don't see how it can be done, if someone can explain me how to secure a connection with a velcro band between cables and preamp/recorder it would be nice. I didn't think about that matter before ordering my preamp, hope to have not made a mistake. Heavy metal shows in the pit are usually not quiet !

Offline George2

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #58 on: June 07, 2012, 12:06:28 PM »
OK.. some much talk of gaffer tape leaving residue on cables, which can be cleaned with lighter-fluid.
Just picked up a couple rolls of this stuff.....no residue!
http://industrytape.com/
Sennheiser 418s>SDMixPre-D>RO9HR
Beyer MC930>Fostex FM3>NagraSD
Couple of Schoeps CMT441 too.

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #59 on: June 07, 2012, 12:27:35 PM »
OK.. some much talk of gaffer tape leaving residue on cables, which can be cleaned with lighter-fluid.
Just picked up a couple rolls of this stuff.....no residue!
http://industrytape.com/
You don't want to use lighter fluid on cables it drys the natural oils out of the cable and breaks down some plastics.....
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Offline George2

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #60 on: June 07, 2012, 12:37:14 PM »
What natural oils are in cables?
Sennheiser 418s>SDMixPre-D>RO9HR
Beyer MC930>Fostex FM3>NagraSD
Couple of Schoeps CMT441 too.

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #61 on: June 07, 2012, 12:46:12 PM »
What natural oils are in cables?
rubber cable EDIT (SOME PLASTIC CABLE) has oils in it that dry out over time if you use lighter fluid on them you will dry them out causing the rubber EDIT (PLASTIC) to get dry and brittle and crack over time this is the same reason why alcohol on cable is not a good idea.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 01:08:30 PM by Church-Audio »
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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #62 on: June 07, 2012, 12:46:56 PM »
What natural oils are in cables?

It comes from sperm whales.

And your callous use of lighter fluid is gonna wipe all the sperm whales out.

Maybe spock and kirk will come back to save them, but I wouldn't count on it.

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #63 on: June 07, 2012, 12:50:22 PM »
What natural oils are in cables?

It comes from sperm whales.

And your callous use of lighter fluid is gonna wipe all the sperm whales out.

Maybe spock and kirk will come back to save them, but I wouldn't count on it.
actually I am kinda wrong it's ok for rubber it's plastic that has an issue with light fluid carry on!
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #64 on: June 07, 2012, 03:05:31 PM »
What natural oils are in cables?

It comes from sperm whales.

And your callous use of lighter fluid is gonna wipe all the sperm whales out.

Maybe spock and kirk will come back to save them, but I wouldn't count on it.

Yep, it's the same whale-oil base as that used for patchouli oil.

I find the best way of removing gaff tape adhesive which remains on gear or cables is to use a small fresh piece of tape.  The old adhesive remnants stick more agressively to the new tape than the gear.

Stick pull, stick pull, stick pull.. clean.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
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Offline cybergaloot

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #65 on: June 08, 2012, 05:31:28 PM »
Chris is right and if you don't believe him, go wipe down your steering wheel with lighter fluid but don't say you weren't warned that its not a good idea. I'm not so sure about the oils being "natural" though.
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Offline Church-Audio

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Re: what problems with cheap mini jack cable on a recording?
« Reply #66 on: June 08, 2012, 06:54:28 PM »
Chris is right and if you don't believe him, go wipe down your steering wheel with lighter fluid but don't say you weren't warned that its not a good idea. I'm not so sure about the oils being "natural" though.
Some plastics are oil based. If you use lighter fluid on them you break down the oil and then the plastic starts to break down. Most plastics actually have oil compounds in them.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/plastic.htm


Chris
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