Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: ToddL on March 30, 2003, 11:21:17 PM
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??? I've been on a long search to find what I think is best going into a V3 and would LOVE to hear some of your oppinions. I know there must be a bunch of opinions out there and hearing them might help me on my search. So far, I've really liked gefell m200's and ADK TL's... If any of you could make some suggestions of what to try out and why that would be cool. They would have to be suitable for most situations, but large section taping would be farther down the list. Mostly theaters (fox in boulder), bars where I would be the only taper (onstage) and obviously SOME indoor and outdoor section shows. Thanks in advance!
TL
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depends what your price range is.
i have heard many nice tapes with the v3.
however, the 41's sound the best to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8)
especially if you are going to be taping in nice theatres etc...
the highs are so silky smooth and crisp, the mids are well defined, and the low end is punchy yet natural and transparent.
good luck,
dave
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4022s :)
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I'm very happy with KM140 > V3. ;D
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i think the V3 is going to sound pretty awesome w/just about any mic.
Look at it this way. the unit itself is regarded as the ultimate transparant preamp.
so, that means you will hear the mics, in all their glory (or not).
that sort of characteristic makes me think it would be an ideal match for DPA mics as they are also thought of as transparent.
So, any mic that sounds good on its own is going to kick ass through this. Other mics that benefit from some sort of coloration may not find that benefit w/the V3.
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here's my rule of thumb, and this goes off of what Todd was saying... if yer mics are worth more than the V3 chances are they are gonna sound good. I dont mean to say that from an elitist standpoint, but in reality your mics should be where your money is, not in your pre/ad combo. If you've put that kind of money into your mics, then they should be good sounding enough to go well with the V3 or the MME.
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I'm sorry, but you'll be doing yourself a huge disservice by matching gear based on how much it costs. That is just terrible advice! There are plenty of excellent mic options out there below the $1500 price tag of the V3, many even <$1k.
Craig T.
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yah craig, but if you are gonna put that kinda money into a rig, put it in your mics
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you may have done this already, but also check out any sources you can that have the v2 as the preamp and a good outboard a/d such as an ad1k, ad500e or sbm-1. while not a perfect representation of the v3 sound, the preamp in the v3 is identical to the v2 with the addition of the high-res a/d.
-damon
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I've heard some good sound via AKG 480/ck61 > V3 > D8
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I would agree that the choice of mics will influence the sound of your rig more than any other component, so it would be wise to allocate enough $ in your budget to get the mics you want. But if someone found mics they liked for $850-900 (or even $500, I'm just throwing #'s out there), it certainly wouldn't be wasted $ to run those mics into a V3 if they could afford it.
Craig T.
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ok, let me rephrase... its not worth your time to spend 1-300 on mics and then 1300 on your pre... the two should be somewhat adequately matched.
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i think a much better way to think about this question would be:
what mics are your absolute favorites? buy those and run with the pre/ ad of your choice. in this case, obviously the V3. if you don't personally know what mics to buy, i'd advise against buying strictly on the recommendations of others. best to listen to many sources/ examples from different situations/ locations to get a firm feel for what 'YOU' like.
i just think you're looking at the situation backwards by trying to match mics to a given pre/ ad combo. by far the biggest influence in your sound will come from the mics themselves, not the pre/ ad. pick/ put the money there, and follow the mics with your pre/ ad decision.
hope this helps.
peace
~S
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well said scott :-)
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I have listened to the 4022s>v3 from phish vegas which sound awesome, as well as the MBHO 440s & 603s>v3 from SCI and UM which both sound very very nive as well.
You can't go wrong with the v3...even though some of you Apogee lovers will think otherwise ;)
PHiL
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You can't go wrong with the v3...even though some of you Apogee lovers will think otherwise ;)
I like the V3. But I like a colored sound so the V3 only works for my ears with the Schoeps and Neumann's. Because of my personal preferences I would never think of running DPA's with a V3. However that is exactly what Scott Brown runs and we all know how much he loves it. Bottom line, what kind of sound are *you* looking for.
And are we sure that the V2 and the V3 preamps are identical? I don't think that they are, I believe (and please someone correct and clarify) that the V3 uses an updated chip in it's pre section. FWIW - I think the MMe pre and the V2 sound very similiar and I amsure that they use the same chip.
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I like the V3. But I like a colored sound so the V3 only works for my ears with the Schoeps and Neumann's. Because of my personal preferences I would never think of running DPA's with a V3. However that is exactly what Scott Brown runs and we all know how much he loves it. Bottom line, what kind of sound are *you* looking for.
And are we sure that the V2 and the V3 preamps are identical? I don't think that they are, I believe (and please someone correct and clarify) that the V3 uses an updated chip in it's pre section. FWIW - I think the MMe pre and the V2 sound very similiar and I amsure that they use the same chip.
Tim,
FWIW, gotta say that i agree completely with this entire post. my feelings echo yours stated here, right down the line. i run Neumanns/ Apogee for this reason. i like a little color to my sound.
that being said, i had the chance to run my Neumanns onstage for Kimock the other night with a V3, and the sound is amazing. Jeff ran his Schoeps from the same location with my Mme and i can't wait to compare these sources.
some people strive for absolute transparency. some people like a little coloration. nothing wrong with either philosophy. strictly a matter of taste. ;)
peace
~S
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the v2 and v3 preamp stages are identical. here's a link to the q&a:
http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/Digital_Converters/V3_Q&A.html
the minime uses a different chip by the same manufacturer, Burr Brown, see this post by Doug Oade.
http://www.oade.com/cgi-bin/miva?Forum/technology/showmsg.mv+message=2632
-damon
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nothing wrong with either philosophy. strictly a matter of taste. ;)
peace
~S
Wow!! A thread where everyone agrees! Gotta love it.
Different strokes for different folks ;D
PHiL
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The biggest difference I have seen is that with the V2 the trim nobs decrease the gain, on the V3 they increase it, which I like better.
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I think this has a lot more to do with the sound you are trying to get, and also the venues you find yourself in. The v3 will not add any coloration, and when running with transparent mics, you get what you hear. Personally, I like a little forgiveness in my tapes, and usually tape in crappy sounding bars. For me, the mini-me allows a tape to be pulled from a bar that is better than the actual sound coming out of the pa. I like this, while others may not. Now if I was going to be taping in a accoustically accurate, good sounding venue, with a kiler PA, the v3 is probably what I would run. BVut I would say, 99 percent of the venues we find ourse;ves in are not conducive to a transparent sound. I guess you might be somewhere where everything sounds good, but I most certainly am not. Thus, I chose the mme, but as always, YMMV.
Now I bet the dpa's sound killer with the v3, but lack the warmth I like. I think any mic would sound good with the v3, as well as the mme, it is just all about what type of sound you are trying to get, and where you are taping.
Just me 2 cents
Daryan
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tim is right! the mic preamp circuitry is not completely identical. there are definitely differences that cause the units to sound different.
micahel grace says that he only "billed the V3's preamp as "identical" to the V2 for a couple of reasons. One is to try to explain that we did not compromise the preamplifier circuitry so that we could add an AD converter in the same box. The other is that I did not want all of
our V2 customers to think that they were sitting on obsolete
equipment when, IMHO, it is still a state of the art preamplifier. As a manufacturer it is very tricky to introduce a product that replaces an existing one. Especially if you don't necessarily want to participate in a "throw away" society where "out with the old and in with the new" is what sustains our economy."
here is a link to his entire post:
http://www.oade.com/cgi-bin/miva?Forum/technology/showmsg.mv+message=4194
dave
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interesting, i stand corrected...i guess it's not wise to take mike grace's statements at face value. it sounds like the chipset is actually different. how he can then say that the v2 and v3 preamps are identical is beyond me.
-damon
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sorry damon, but i think it's NOT wise for you to say that you can't take michael's statements at face value. he is one of the people who has helped shape this field. his knowledge is not something to take for granted with a blanket statement like that.
dave
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i'm very happy with my v3. however, to say that the mic preamps in the v3 are "identical" to those in the v2 when they in fact use different circuitry is somewhat misleading. they are most certainly very similar, but they are not identical, by his own statement. if his desire is not to alienate prior purchasers to think their product is obsolete, perhaps he should've chosen a different route than saying that the new product is identical, without qualifying the statement to say it is almost identical. he could've named it something other than the v3 with its connotations of being the replacement to the v2.
he may have provided this community with great products and a lot of knowledge, but why should he be able to make misleading, if not fundamentally false statements?
-damon
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I just picked up a V3 & there is no way it sounds identical to the V2. I never cared much for the V2 but there is definitely something different with the V3. I also prefer a "nuetral" recording over a "warm" or "colored" recording. I have my home system dialed in to produce a "warm" sound (tubes) but I want to record the absolute sound of the room/pa (sometimes for better or worse) You can always change your system in the future if your tastes change but you can't go back to your recordings. Too each his own ;D Some would say the 148 is colored as well but as long as it isn't dark sounding & fairly neutral I'm OK with it.
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I have owned the V2 and V3, put personally it's hard to compare when you are also using the A/D in the V3, that is going to change the sound some and I don't think we need to start doing V2 to V3 comps, pre amp only 8).
I have quickly found the Schoeps to be a very nice compliment to the V3. The schoeps have their trademark "color" as some like to call it. Mix that warm low end of the schoeps with the detail and clarity of the V3 and you get a real nice sound. I am hearing highs now from the schoeps that the mini-me did not give me.
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Many great ideas, guys... thanks! I didn't meant to make it sound like I was looking for an absolute right choice, I am very critical and will be making a decision based on what my ears like, but it sure is nice to hear what some of you are running and how *you* feel about that combo. Thanks to all that said why they like their setup as well... some really nice things to consider that I haven't before. To those running the ADK TL's, are you happy with this package in general? I've heard a few tapes that I like a lot with these, but a real users oppinion would help a bunch. Thanks again.
TL
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I have heard nothing but great things about the ADK A51-TL's, would love to test out a pair myself.
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I've been a happy A51TL owner since Oct.'01. I'd be glad to set people up with a few TL recordings. Over the last year and a half, I've used them in many different situations - from on stage m/s to hypers din from the section in arenas. I can also point you to a retailer.
Craig T.
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being LD Mics what kind of tape do they pull in a bad room?
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being LD Mics what kind of tape do they pull in a bad room?
hypers DIN seem to work well.
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good to hear!!!