Topic: Recommendations for 4 channel device?

[travelinbeat]

I'm considering subjecting myself to a new round of torture...  I'm in the very earliest stages of considering a 4track.  Ideally it'd supply power to the mics and I'd be able to make a nice matrix recording on it.  I'd rather have a solid state recorder, but I don't know how common those are.  I'd love to have all sorts of in's and out's, and I'd consider 24/96 a requirement.  If any of you folks are able to rattle off a quick list, I'm happy to read up on the device, but I also welcome any insights or opinions you may have of any device in particular. 

Thanks

[ghellquist]

My suggestion: stroke out the 96 from your requirements. It is purely a marketing thing in the lower price segments. You need to go quite high in price level before that part of the balance will be a major part of the sound quality. A well done 44.1 will sound much better that a badly done 96.

Next thing is that 24 bit is purely marketing as well. You will get really, really good recording with a recorder that actually, truly delivers 20 bits (many so-called 24 bit machine does not deliver this much). There is not a recorder on the market you can buy today, for any kind of money that gives true 24 bits (and this is a fact).

The reason I add these two things is that you might stumble on older equipment that truthfully was sold as 20 bits and only could handle 48k in a professional quality, solid, good-sounding package.


Caveat: there are actually some specialized usages where 96 or even 192 actually makes a difference. This is about special effects where you might want to slow down the sound to half speed or even more. It has very little to do with taping.

// gunnar

[travelinbeat]

Thanks for the input gunnar, but I really think that I'd like to have the 24/96 in there-- I've personally done some side by sides with 24/96 recordings I've created vs. the 16/44.1 version of the exact same record and I can tell the difference (not major to me, but it's there).  Beyond that, I'd like to have a device that doesn't force me to hug the clip so much (it's much easier / cleaner to boost at 24/96, from what I've read).

I've renamed the thread to be a little more reflective of the inquiry and I'm still eager to hear what you folks have to say.  Much ultimate dream is the Cantar X2, but I don't think I got the scratch for that $14,000 beautiful behemoth.

[fmaderjr]

Its the 24 bits that make for a cleaner boost, not the 96.

I'm not a fan of recording 24/96 because I can't hear a difference between that & 24/44.1, but  no good 4 channel recorder is going to lack that capability so you'll be covered there.

I think the one most favored here that can be had at a reasonable price is the Edirol R-44 (the R-4 not so much unless it is modded).

Too bad you're not in the market to buy one immediately. With 8% cash back & 2% E-Bay bucks, this is an absolute steal (Excellent condition for around $728 shipped after rebates):
http://cgi.ebay.com/Edirol-Roland-R-44-4-Channel-Portable-Field-Recorder_W0QQitemZ230429026879QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a6a3ea3f

[rastasean]

I'm sure you saw this thread but check it out:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=131661.0

In any case these are mostly very small differences in sound quality, and if I were you I would be more concerned about microphones and microphone placement than about this issue.
on the discussion of sound quality of bits, bytes, nanobytes

14 grand is a lotta cash. I'm afraid to add up how much I have spent since I discovered this site just two short years ago.

I say get R44!

[DSatz]

I've been using my Edirol R44 more and more lately, and still like it a lot in most respects. However, the screen is small and the metering, which uses less than half the available width, is inscrutable. The closer you get to 0 dB (full scale) where you really, really need to know what your exact peak levels are, the less you can see. Also, its continuously variable input level controls are always in the circuit, and have no detent at the point of unity gain.

But the design gets just about everything else right, for my purposes at least. I definitely like being able to stop recording, have the file be saved automatically, and start a new file all within a second--something I could never do when I recorded everything on a laptop computer.

--best regards

[taperj]

 I've been researching the same thing travelinbeat. I have a SD Mixpre right now so the SD 744t is making a lot of sense as a quick drop in in my bag for a solid 4 ch rig, if you already own a standalone high quality pre this might be an option for you as well(it would meet all of your recording requirements). I just ordered a pair of km100|LC3|ak40's to add to my skm184 for 4 channel and I'll eventually end up with a 788t I'm sure (I'm a glutton for big mixes), but I think my next logical step is the 744(probably get a V2 or V3 after that to swap out the Mixpre). I think this 'system' makes a 744 into a fairly versatile and modular device that achieves what's needed and leaves room to scale/swap. Not to mention, I can probably still run the whole 4 ch rig out of my Nova 2 bag!

J

[acidjack]

I love my R-44 because:

If you have an R-09HR, it has similar menu structure
It's a bit lighter than the Sound Devices units
It has nice, easy to view level meters
In general, it is user friendly
Feels solid
Easy to power for a long time with a DVD battery
To my ears, the plain old unmodded R-44 sounds pretty darn good too.

Knowing that you'd be making about the same jump equipment-wise that I did, I think you'd like this unit, and I think once you did your first SBD+mic matrix, you'd see the logic in the investment...

[travelinbeat]

if you already own a standalone high quality pre this might be an option for you as well

Glad you brought this up, actually.  I do not own any pre's other than those listed in my sig, and neither do I own any A/D.  I'd like to get a good, reliable device that can function as all of these.  I know I'm asking for a lot, but I'm also kind of hoping that this may stir up some discussion (person A says "device X has the best pre or A/D" then person B says "no way, device Y is way better," etc).  I've seen these R44's in the field and they are indeed pretty, and it's a great relief, acidjack, to hear that they use a similar menu to the one I'm familiar with on the R09HR (couldn't get much simpler).  So far, I'm reading a bunch of rave reviews for the R44 and not really a ton else about many other devices-- is it just that unanimous?  Also, what's the advantage of getting these things modded, I know a lot of you folks send these out to Oade or Busman and I don't know why exactly.  Also, R44 vs R4 vs R4 Pro?

[fmaderjr]

From what I've read here, some of the main differences are that the R-44 is bit perfect digital in (though that may not matter to you), is a bit smaller than the R-4, uses SD cards instead of a hard drive and sounds good stock. The R-4's preamps supposedly leave a good bit to be desired if not modded by Oade or Busman. I think I've read that this is because the R-4 was designed several years earlier and they improved the pres when the R-44 came out.

If I were to buy one of the 2, I wouldn't consider an R-4 unless it were modded and even then I think I'd go for a 44.

[datmike]

Just got a new R-44 and I'm loving it!!

I had an older Sound Devices MP-2 so I just got a newer Mixpre for the second set of mics....



The bag is the G-Broadcaster bag from Gator Bags:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&m=Y&Q=&%20Cases.Audio_Recorder_Cases_GABDR=&IC=GABDR&A=RetrieveSku

[travelinbeat]

Do these R44's save all four channels or does it flatten it all into a 2channel stereo recording

[datmike]

Do these R44's save all four channels or does it flatten it all into a 2channel stereo recording

The R-44 saves:
Stereo x1
Stereo x2
Mono x1
Mono x2
Mono x3
Mono x4
4Ch x1

[acidjack]

Do these R44's save all four channels or does it flatten it all into a 2channel stereo recording

Can be custom done.  You can set it for all 4 individually, 2xstereo, or I think one giant 4ch file. I believe the preferred method is 2xSTEREO because that way you can edit each source independently. But I just got the thing, so I'm sure others have other ways they do it.

[su6oxone]

744T is a nice all-in-one recorder that goes for around $3200 used.  Keep in mind that it only has two preamps with phantom though, the other set of XLR inputs don't.  The 788T has four preamps with phantom and four additional channels without a pre and costs about $6000 new with a HDD and $6500 with a SSD.  They rarely come up used.  I think if you get one of these you won't need to upgrade for a long time, which is why I plan on getting at least a 744T at some point.