Topic: Burning hidden track on cd's

[taper420]

So I just did a bunch of research and thought I should pass it on to anyway who wants to know (if there's any out there that don't already know how to do it.) I mean it's not a help at all for what we're normally concerned with here, but who knows when it'll come in handy.

So the story goes like this... I recorded this bluegrass band a couple weeks ago, and they come back to me a few days ago after they've had a mixed master of the 10 songs for a while to listen to. They only want 4 of the 10 songs on the disc. It's really just a demo to help them get gigs so it makes sence they just want the best stuff on there.... but what about all my work? Those 6 tracks will dissappear into oblivion and noone will be the wiser. Unless.....

I put them as hidden tracks before the first song.... that way they get their 4 clean songs for a nice presentation and i still get to publish all my recordings. So here's how I did it....I'm working on a mac, for a PC I believe Feurio! (burning app) will allow you to do all the things I describe. First I open the six unused audio files plus the first used track in a wave editor and string them all into one big wave file. I put a little more space between them than normal because people will be rewinding to hear these songs so the bigger gaps will help identify seperate songs. I put the first official track starting at 20 minutes excatly. Next I open toast and import the wave i just made and the three more songs that are supposed to be on the disc. I arrange the disc as if to burn but then I save as cue/bin. Next I open the .cue file in TextEdit. It looks like this:

FILE "sle.bin" BINARY
CDTEXTFILE "sle.cdt"
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 23:29:31
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 25:55:31
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 28:44:31

After the proper changes to hide the 6 tracks it looked like this:

FILE "sle.bin" BINARY
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 20:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 23:29:31
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 25:55:31
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    INDEX 01 28:44:31

Unfortunatly Toast does something to the files before burning and doesnt include the hidden tracks. The program I used for a successful burn from the cue/bin file is FireStarter FX. It is important to delete the cd text reference on the second line, or the burn won't work. As far as I can tell this is a reference for toast to use but causes errors in other burning programs. The other thing you have to do is add an index 00 00:00:00 in track 01 before index 01. Then you change the time on index 01 to the moment you want the disc to start (ie after the hidden tracks). For me I made it easy and put it right at 20:00:00. After this the listener will have to manually rewind before the first track in order to hear the hidden songs. That's it.

One thing to note... your tracks are actually not just hidden....but well hidden. CD roms can't read the hidden tracks. Car stereos can't read the hidden tracks. Most CD players made in the past 5 years can't read the tracks. The only reason I knew they were there is because I could see more than 4 tracks were burned on the disc. It wasn't until I put the disc into the first cd player my father ever bought, that I could hear the hidden tracks. Worked just like expected. See this cd player didn't just have digits for the track, it had them for index's too. I think allot of newer cd players just ignore indexing.

So there it is. If you don't want your tracks to be SO well hidden consider burning an enhanced cd and attaching them as data files...or you could just put them at the end after a long silence.

Enjoy

[dunebug81]

Nice, I bet those cue sheet would work for CDRWIN ( www.goldenhawk.com ) as well.  I use CDRWIN for buring shows from just a single wav...writes perfectly everytime and does CD text.

[BayTaynt3d]

Sounds interesting on the one hand, and like a really bad idea on the other hand. The band asked to only have their four tracks on the CD, but now you're putting all of them on there? And this is the CD they are going to send out as their demo to get gigs? What if someone else finds and plays those tracks? You've intentionally not respected the band's wishes, which seems kind of lame to me. Sure, "but what about all my work," but really it's THEIR MUSIC and their demo. Sounds like a really good way to piss a band off, to paint tapers in a bad light, and to ensure that other band's won't trust you. Maybe not, but I find that I get way more access to way more bands (including soundboard, video, photo, etc.) by always first and foremost respecting the band's wishes. Anyway, just some food for thought...

[Brian Skalinder]

You've intentionally not respected the band's wishes, which seems kind of lame to me. Sure, "but what about all my work," but really it's THEIR MUSIC and their demo. Sounds like a really good way to piss a band off, to paint tapers in a bad light, and to ensure that other band's won't trust you.

Ah-yup.

[taper420]

I'm sorry if I made it seem like I was doing this without the bands permission....they (actually one of them is a good friend of mine) thought it was an amazing idea and told me I was a genius. I would never consider doing anything against a bands wishes or behind their backs. And yes it is their demo and their music. But mixing all ten songs to make them sound good did take a considerable amount of time, that's all I'm saying. I just hate throwing all that effort away.

But if I had been doing this behind their backs, you are both 100% right.

[willndmb]

am i the only one that doesn't see the point to this?
why not just make 2 discs, one complete for you and the band and one demo thats just the four songs for others to have

and if you have the complete version but only some cd players can play it and a cd drive will not reconize the extra tracks what happens down the road when your player dies that is old and can read the disc?

[taper420]

I'll always have the full version with all ten tracks unhidden on CD, DVD, and tape. I even have the project file so if I think I can make it sound better for some reason, i could remix it. The point is now they (the band) can tell their friends, hey check out the secret tracks. And when they hand it to a club to get a gig, noone's the wiser. It's the best of both worlds. A clean presentation, and allot of bonus good material that doesn't have to be thrown away now. It's not that they didn't want anyone to hear the songs, they just didn't want it to be what they presented to club owners when getting gigs. The four song line-up was there best four, very tight, and presented in a good order. It's their corporate "face" if you will. But like the mullet hidden behind the buisness man's well trimmed front, there's is now some more wilder fun hidden behind their clean musical facade.

If you still don't get it, it's just about fun.....
Oh and to answer your question about when the old cd player dies. Well first of all you can think of it as making it a more exclusive secret, not just anyone can be let in on. And I'm trying to figure out how to make the disc enhanced containing data and adding the bonus tracks as hidden files (in addition to the hidden pre-track trick). That way there's a way for new and older technologies to access the hidden tracks.
One more time, it's about fun ... 

[willndmb]

gottcha
sounds good
it just seemed at first like it needed to be done that way for one reason or anyother
+t for teaching me you can even do this and good luck on figuring it out, wish i had help for you there

[OFOTD]

Blind Melon had a hidden track like you described on their second album 'Soup'.  They hid a hidden track before track one.  You let the disc start and immediately hold rewind until like -2:14.  You wouldn't believe how excited a couple of college stoners got when we figured that one out.

[ScottT]

Nice, I bet those cue sheet would work for CDRWIN ( www.goldenhawk.com ) as well.  I use CDRWIN for buring shows from just a single wav...writes perfectly everytime and does CD text.

I used CDRwin for many years before switching to Nero.  The hidden track trick does work in that app!  Man, I haven't worked with a cue sheet in a long time....

[dunebug81]

After all that talking up of CDRWIN its not working my my DVD burner.  I had the 'unable to set disc parameters" error and updated the firmware and it fixed it...I did some registry tweaks the other day, nothing to the DVD drive other then turning off auto run and now it wont burn again.  Such a pain in the ass, now I have to pop back in my plextor cdr.