Topic: Neuros HD testing

[Sean Gallemore]

I'm running some tests to see if this a suitable HD recorder for our needs.

At first I was having problems with the wav recording feature but that has seem to have disappeared.  

The levels:  They are ok, seperate left and right.  They are a bit choppy, not as smoothe as a the M1 lets say, but each side has dB number readings.  The gain through line-in can be applied from -12 to 12.

Noise Floor:  I plugged in my crappy sony mic, turned the gain all the way up on the Neuros, and let it record for 4 minutes.  Even with my mic right next to HD, it didn't pick up any noise.  It generally stayed between -68dB and -72dB. -72dB is the lowest the Neuros reads.  I couldn't make out any noises on the recording with my HD580s turned up all the way.

Recording Modes:
16/44.1 wav
16/48 wav

it also does 16?/8 wav for voice recording and various mp3 recording bitrates, but I won't be testing those

Backlight:  can be set to 10 or 30 seconds, or off

Radio Transmitter: people are making antennae for these things that can hit tuners over 50 feet away and still come in clear.  Mine, with no antenae, comes in super clear with hardly any hiss.  Some frequencies come in better than others, and it can even overpower real radio stations


Still to test:
adc
battery life, although I've been told 3-4 hours while recording wav
anything else?

love to know your thoughts

[Simp-Dawg]

so, this only has analog in, no digital?

[Sean Gallemore]

so, this only has analog in, no digital?

correct

has USB 2.0 for digi xfers

[Popmarter]

some close pictures would be nice to.

[Sean Gallemore]

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=24;action=display;threadid=18967

[Brian Skalinder]

some close pictures would be nice to.

Try the product website or Google.

[Sean Gallemore]

I will take some pictures this afternoon

[Sean Gallemore]

there are gaps on playback

The MyFi (Radio Broadcaster) will overpower a local radio station and come in crystal clear.

I like the joystick/navagation.  Easy to breeze thru menus and get to the goods.

ogg and wma playback

more to come

[Tenn Man]

Schwill,

Are you using an external power supply?

If so, what and how does it attach to the unit?

Thanks

[Sean Gallemore]

Schwill,

Are you using an external power supply?

If so, what and how does it attach to the unit?

Thanks

not but it has a DC jack on it

here are some pics
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=20;action=display;threadid=19082;start=0

[Thom Joad]

Hey Fellas

Been getting ready to pull the trigger on one of these (or something like it) for a litle while now but I ran into a little problem. Checked out the specs. on the website and this don't add up:    

Recording
 -64-160 kbps MP3 format
 -8, 44.1 & 48KHz WAV

http://www.neurosaudio.com/store/prod_USB2_20gbspec.asp

about half way down the page

Tell me if I is seeing things but is that an "8", as in half of 16bit?!

[Zaphod]

I agree i believe those specs are misleading, but as schwill has noted it does record in 16 bit/44.1, 48

[dklein]

Maybe it does 8kHz waves?

[Sean Gallemore]

supposedly that is 16-bit/8khz for "voice recording"

Obviously that wouldn't be useful to us

[Thom Joad]

Thanks for the clarification.  Last night, J. Daniels had me believing there was actually an 8 bit digital recorder.  

I'll be interested to see how further tests come out.  I want to get a small DAT alternative soon, and it looks like it's between this,  or the JB3.  Thanks for your efforts! - Matt

[zhianosatch]

Noise Floor:  I plugged in my crappy sony mic, turned the gain all the way up on the Neuros, and let it record for 4 minutes.  Even with my mic right next to HD, it didn't pick up any noise.  It generally stayed between -68dB and -72dB. -72dB is the lowest the Neuros reads.  I couldn't make out any noises on the recording with my HD580s turned up all the way.

Not sure what exactly you're testing here... otherwise, it all seems butter.

[Sean Gallemore]

Thanks for the clarification.  Last night, J. Daniels had me believing there was actually an 8 bit digital recorder.  

I'll be interested to see how further tests come out.  I want to get a small DAT alternative soon, and it looks like it's between this,  or the JB3.  Thanks for your efforts! - Matt

Thom Joad, did you check out the torrent I added?  It's an a/d comparison between the neuros and the M1.  I think you'll even like the song choice I used for it

The only features the JB3 has over the Neuros are the digital input, its reputation, and its removable batteries

[Popmarter]

So, any final conclusions yet? I am looking for a recorder to replace the MD. JB3 is an option, but still a bit big i feel. All i use it for is stealthing. Few questions:

- can i change levels on the fly?
- can it record wav for hours, or is it limited?
- is the light bright enough (for recording in the dark)?

hope to hear, thanks!

[F.O.Bean]

Thanks for the clarification.  Last night, J. Daniels had me believing there was actually an 8 bit digital recorder.  

I'll be interested to see how further tests come out.  I want to get a small DAT alternative soon, and it looks like it's between this,  or the JB3.  Thanks for your efforts! - Matt

Thom Joad, did you check out the torrent I added?  It's an a/d comparison between the neuros and the M1.  I think you'll even like the song choice I used for it

The only features the JB3 has over the Neuros are the digital input, its reputation, and its removable batteries

and pop/click free recordings

[AT853rxwh]

If they get a pack that will do digi optical and firewire, it will be killer.  (at least some kind of digital in, and I guess I could settle for usb 2.0 but been spoiled with firewire  )

The thing that originally caught my attention on the Neuros was the fact that the developers are actually listening to the users, and then making changes.  Too often we have products here that people make then try to find someone to buy it...

I would say in about a year or two, this will be the device of choice if they continue the trend...


+T Schwill for being a guinea pig!

[Sean Gallemore]

So, any final conclusions yet? I am looking for a recorder to replace the MD. JB3 is an option, but still a bit big i feel. All i use it for is stealthing. Few questions:

- can i change levels on the fly?
- can it record wav for hours, or is it limited?
- is the light bright enough (for recording in the dark)?

hope to hear, thanks!

yes, you can change levels on the fly with no introduced noise
yes, it has been test for hours and will record 16/44.1 for up to 6 hours I believe (4GB limit with FAT32 systems)
yes, the light is bright enough.  It is an orange light that can be in off/10/30 second modes.

[Sean Gallemore]

Thanks for the clarification.  Last night, J. Daniels had me believing there was actually an 8 bit digital recorder.  

I'll be interested to see how further tests come out.  I want to get a small DAT alternative soon, and it looks like it's between this,  or the JB3.  Thanks for your efforts! - Matt

Thom Joad, did you check out the torrent I added?  It's an a/d comparison between the neuros and the M1.  I think you'll even like the song choice I used for it

The only features the JB3 has over the Neuros are the digital input, its reputation, and its removable batteries

and pop/click free recordings

that's not an advantage

[John Kelly]

Thanks for the clarification.  Last night, J. Daniels had me believing there was actually an 8 bit digital recorder.  

I'll be interested to see how further tests come out.  I want to get a small DAT alternative soon, and it looks like it's between this,  or the JB3.  Thanks for your efforts! - Matt

Thom Joad, did you check out the torrent I added?  It's an a/d comparison between the neuros and the M1.  I think you'll even like the song choice I used for it

The only features the JB3 has over the Neuros are the digital input, its reputation, and its removable batteries

and pop/click free recordings

that's not an advantage

It's a disadvantage???

[Sean Gallemore]

Thanks for the clarification.  Last night, J. Daniels had me believing there was actually an 8 bit digital recorder.  

I'll be interested to see how further tests come out.  I want to get a small DAT alternative soon, and it looks like it's between this,  or the JB3.  Thanks for your efforts! - Matt

Thom Joad, did you check out the torrent I added?  It's an a/d comparison between the neuros and the M1.  I think you'll even like the song choice I used for it

The only features the JB3 has over the Neuros are the digital input, its reputation, and its removable batteries

and pop/click free recordings

that's not an advantage

It's a disadvantage???

it would be an advantage over the Neuros if the Neuros had pops and clicks.  That's what I was trying to say.

[Popmarter]

thanks a lot swill, for the fictures too, great! its a pity you ahve to use that black (backpack) on the neuros,. makes it only little smaller that a M1. But...its still smaller than JB3.

other pro/cons compared to the JB3?
Why is this one better than the JB3? (or not?)

[Sean Gallemore]

I've given all the information I have in this thread.

It will accept 9-16V DC.  I'm gonna make an RC pack and see what kind of results I get with it.

[F.O.Bean]

so you havent gotten any pops/clicks schwill???

good to hear, now just make a digi-in, and id prolly buy one!!

[Popmarter]

do we really need a digi-in?

probably most have seen it, good forum
http://www.neurosaudio.com/community/forum/default.asp

[Rick]

We definetly need to go to a show and do a JB3 vs. Neuros A/D test. Find a show we can tape!

[Sean Gallemore]

I'm gonna be in Irvine for Primus, but I doubt yer hitting that.


pick yer medicine, preferrably something that doesn't suck

[Rick]

pick yer medicine, preferrably something that doesn't suck

So I guess Jessica Simpson at the mid-state fair is out then

Next show I'm going to is the Cayucos Music Festival in two weeks... Does cost $10, but there's going to be many bands that I don't care about so some experimenting can be done.

I'm gonna be in Irvine for Primus, but I doubt yer hitting that.

If it was within 2 hours I'd be there

[Sean Gallemore]

pick yer medicine, preferrably something that doesn't suck

So I guess Jessica Simpson at the mid-state fair is out then

Next show I'm going to is the Cayucos Music Festival in two weeks... Does cost $10, but there's going to be many bands that I don't care about so some experimenting can be done.

I'm gonna be in Irvine for Primus, but I doubt yer hitting that.

If it was within 2 hours I'd be there

I might be at the Cayucos thing, it's right before finals though...

[Sean Gallemore]

here's some more info I dug up

• High-Performance Stereo Codec
– 90-dB SNR Multibit Sigma-Delta ADC (A-weighted at 48 kHz)
– 100-dB SNR Multibit Sigma-Delta DAC (A-weighted at 48 kHz)
• Highly Efficient Linear Headphone Amplifier
– 30 mW per channel into 32 #8486;

A/D Converters
Dynamic range, A-weighted, –60-dB full-scale input 85dB (min) 90dB (typical) Total harmonic distortion 1 dB input 0 dB gain -80dB (typical) ADC channel separation 1 kHz input tone 90 dB (typical)

D/A Converters
Total harmonic distortion (1kHz, 0dB), -88dB (typical) -80dB (max) Total harmonic distortion (1kHz, -3dB), -92dB (typical), -86dB (max) DAC channel separation 100 dB (typical)



Stereo Headphone Output
0-dB full-scale output voltage 1.0 VRMS
Maximum output power, RL = 32 #8486; 30mW
Maximum output power, RL = 16 #8486; 40mW
Signal-to-noise ratio, A-weighted 90dB (min) 97dB (typical) Total harmonic distortion, 1kHz, PO = 10 mW, 0.1% (max) Total Harmonic Distortion, 1kHz, PO = 20 mW, 1% (max)

[Sean Gallemore]

I ran the Neuros line-in recording at 16/44.1 with the RC Battery pack I made.  I got  5h 30m of continuous recording until the battery levels dropped all the way down.  I stopped there so I wouldn't lose the wav, and therefore I could check it for continuity.  Through calculations, it can supposedly record for over 6.5 hours onto one file, but without an a/c power supply or a larger battery pack, the batteries will first die.

[Chapper]

How long will it run on the internal batteries?

[Sean Gallemore]

I've been told 3-4

[Popmarter]

Schwilly, i saw you taped Primus with the Neuros. Can you give a brief summary on how it went?

[Sean Gallemore]

went well, I did unfortunately catch some skipping about 52 minutes into the show, but it seems to be isolated to that track.  It's not like MD skips, where there is a pause.  It is continuous, but still a noticable jump.  Only happened a few times within a minute time frame from what I know.

You cannot record with the caselogic case on because the fabric won't allow the 1/8" plug to penetrate (huh uhu uhuh) fully, but I might cut the hole a little bigger.

Sound Forge showed that I had overs throughout the show, but it's not audible.  The Neuros never went above 0 though, so I'm not sure what's up.

I used the RC pack for extra power, and the internal battery stayed charged the whole time.  Atleast another 2 hours of recording.  The only problem with the external batt pack is that the orange backlight stays on no matter what.  Not too much of a problem, unless you are concerned it'll give you away

[Popmarter]

good to hear this, thank you. Seems like a good alternative to MD then. I was shocked to see the small level-meters on the JB3, how is that with the Neuros? Did it work in 'the field'. Can you upload a picture here,  of the Neuros-rec.levels when you are recording line-in. i think more people are intrested to see that.

[Sean Gallemore]

good to hear this, thank you. Seems like a good alternative to MD then. I was shocked to see the small level-meters on the JB3, how is that with the Neuros? Did it work in 'the field'. Can you upload a picture here,  of the Neuros-rec.levels when you are recording line-in. i think more people are intrested to see that.

the levels are about as good as the JB3 meters but in a different way.

they aren't quick like a DAT or MD< they are very choppy, and the peak doesn't hold out for a while, so you can't really tell what yer topping out at without closely observing the numbers.  I'd recomend running well below what appears to be zero because you will rarely see when it DOES hit zero.  I got overs running my test and even at primus where I thought I was safe.  I'll get pics when I can, but I don't have anything that takes good macros right now

[save]

so size is reallly the only advantage it has over the jb3 then, right?  the fact that it doesn't have any sort of digi in kind of makes it useless to most of the tapers out there who already have a a/d converter.  still seems like a jb3 would be the better choice (cheaper & digi in) between these two recorders.  

[timP]

if you guys don't really care about not running digi-in then the Archos  120 could be perfect with huge file sizes and visable, changable levels and really really small.
just my 2c.

[Sean Gallemore]

so size is reallly the only advantage it has over the jb3 then, right?  the fact that it doesn't have any sort of digi in kind of makes it useless to most of the tapers out there who already have a a/d converter.  still seems like a jb3 would be the better choice (cheaper & digi in) between these two recorders.  

[1]  there are plenty of tapers who don't have dedicated a/d's
[2]  has a 4GB file limit and not a 2GB limit
[3]  better meters (in my limited experience with both)
[4]  upgradable

[F.O.Bean]

skips arent good tho schwill

[Rick]

[2]  has a 4GB file limit and not a 2GB limit

JB3 has a 3GB limit... Plus you can start a new recording on the fly (well almost)

I have to agree with Justin, unless your going to stealth with it without a a/d, then I think the JB3 is the way to go...  If they can upgrade the backpack with a digi-in though, I'll get one.

[timP]

I got 4 hours the one time I had to run it that long, and it's A?D is just as passable as the JB3s. Pretty cooll little brick I think.
just really like my 120 is all..................

[Sean Gallemore]

I got 4 hours the one time I had to run it that long, and it's A?D is just as passable as the JB3s. Pretty cooll little brick I think.
just really like my 120 is all..................

you had a neuros for a while?

[Sean Gallemore]

http://www.sonicstudios.com/page38.html

downl the page a ways is some info and display pictures of the Neuros

[Tenn Man]

Hey Schwill,

You seem to have the most knowledge about using the Neuros, so I'd like to ask you a couple of questions.

I understand that the JB3 has a digital input but the Neuros does not. What is the significance of having a digi-in?

In what situations would you need a digi-in vs. a line-in?

Does the Neuros have an A/D converter?

Can you use an external A/D converter plugged into the line-in?

I know it depends on the volume of the source, but is a pre-amp gernerally needed with SP mics or is a battery box usually enough with the Neuros?

Thanks for your info.

[Brian Skalinder]

What is the significance of having a digi-in?

A digital input allows you to run an outboard ADC.  Outboard ADCs generally sound better than internal ADCs on consumer-level recorders.

In what situations would you need a digi-in vs. a line-in?

If you're running an outboard ADC.

Does the Neuros have an A/D converter?

Yes.

Can you use an external A/D converter plugged into the line-in?

Nope.  Since the Neuros does not have a digital input, you can't feed it a digital signal from an outboard ADC.

[Sean Gallemore]

The significance of not having the digi-in on the Neuros is that you CANNOT use a higher quality external A/D converter.  You must use the internal one, which is the generic consumer crapola.  A digital input is great for running high dollar external adcs for the best sound.  If you don't have an external adc, then the digital input is virtually useless.

No, an external adc cannot be directly pluuged into line-in unless the signal is passed through a lossy analog conversion - ie: line out of a UA-5 - or taken from the line-out of a multi-purpose box like the Grace V3.

I would say you definitely won't clip if you don't have a preamp, I'm not sure how close you could reach to 0dB, however, as I haven't done any testing at concerts with out my MP-2.  The line-in on the Neuros probably has the equivelant gain as the line-in on an MD, but this is just speculation.

[Sean Gallemore]

jerk beat me to it

[Tenn Man]

Thanks to both of you. Helpful info.

Schwill, what do you like about the Neuros vs. the JB3?

Is there anything new on the horizon?

[Sean Gallemore]

Thanks to both of you. Helpful info.

Schwill, what do you like about the Neuros vs. the JB3?

Is there anything new on the horizon?

Pros for Neuros:
it broadcasts over radio frequencies in a limited area.
It's external power supply can range from 9-16V DC
It's shape
It can be upgraded with the purchase of new backpacks, which in the future may have additional/different inputs/outputs, can be upgraded to 80+ GB, more flash, etc.
Great online support by both users and developers
Updated Firmware comes out about once a month, if not more.
I feel the levels are better for analog recording

Pros for JB3:
Internal Battery lasts a lot longer in JB3
Digital Input
Firewire & USB
More reputable
I think it has a line-out
The software has to be better.  I think the Neuros software is disgustingly useless.

I'm sure there are more...

[arawak420]

ive been checking the neuros myself. so it isn't digital like it says, or im thinking it records analog and converts internally to digital? am i right here? i heard the  neuros record with a battery life of 2.5 hours in wav format seeings how the hd is constantly running.

 i read earlier says that there was a jump in the recording. was that cause you moved or got bumped? in wav. format it is running the entire time. heres a picture of a 10 hour record time battery pack that attaches to the recrder.
 

there is a 2nd generation model out.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/NA-HARDDISC link to it

so what the conclussion on the neuros vs. jb3

should i just go for the digital jb3?

can i take the recording from the neuros and run it into a home a/d converter into the pc?
kind of like
sound source>mics>analog>neuros
when i trasfer tp pc can i, neuros>home a/d converter>pc to get digital sound
can that work,will it work, or dont do it?

so what the conclussion on the neuros vs. jb3?

conclussion please cause im still confused.

[Sean Gallemore]

ive been checking the neuros myself. so it isn't digital like it says, or im thinking it records analog and converts internally to digital? am i right here? i heard the  neuros record with a battery life of 2.5 hours in wav format seeings how the hd is constantly running.

you are correct on both accounts, but I have gotten less recording time out of the internal battery than 2.5 hours.

i read earlier says that there was a jump in the recording. was that cause you moved or got bumped? in wav. format it is running the entire time. heres a picture of a 10 hour record time battery pack that attaches to the recrder.

that was a one time deal.  I'm not sure what happened.  I ahd another instance were it introduced mild static for about 3 seconds into the recording, but that hasn't happened again either.

there is a 2nd generation model out.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/NA-HARDDISC link to it

so what the conclussion on the neuros vs. jb3

I listed the Pros and Cons above, based ion my limited use with both. I suppose which ever fits your needs best would take the cake.

should i just go for the digital jb3?

probably, unless you want the extra gimmicks that come with the Neuros

can i take the recording from the neuros and run it into a home a/d converter into the pc?
kind of like
sound source>mics>analog>neuros
when i trasfer tp pc can i, neuros>home a/d converter>pc to get digital sound
can that work,will it work, or dont do it?

I answered this in the other thread.  It will be a direct data transfer from the Neuros to your PC.  The Neuros acts like a 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) harddrive so you can directly copy files.

so what the conclussion on the neuros vs. jb3?

I went with the Neuros for shape and the possibility of future upgrades.  It all depends on what options you need and how much you are willing to spend

conclussion please cause im still confused.

hopefully this helped

[arawak420]

i know that i can transfer straight to the pc via 2.0, but in order to get digi qaulity it might be worth it to run it to run it through a home a/d converter>pc in real time to get digital qaul.

i have a 40gb zen im gonna sell here soon

[Sean Gallemore]

i know that i can transfer straight to the pc via 2.0, but in order to get digi qaulity it might be worth it to run it to run it through a home a/d converter>pc in real time to get digital qaul.

i have a 40gb zen im gonna sell here soon

If something has the ability to record in 16 bit, 44.1khz wav, then it is already a digital device and there is no need for post conversion.

[zhianosatch]

i know that i can transfer straight to the pc via 2.0, but in order to get digi qaulity it might be worth it to run it to run it through a home a/d converter>pc in real time to get digital qaul.

there has to be some basic "analog v. digital" faq on the internet somewhere