Topic: Off Center Levels :: Compensate or No?

[hexyjones]

If you find one channel running hotter than the other...do you compensate? (add gain)

or should you leave it to preserve the stereo image...?

I've always been from the school of camp that said "leave it" - just accept that thats how the sound is moving...I might try moving my mics before I adjust any gain...

[F.O.Bean]

"thats what trim is for"

[hexyjones]

"thats what trim is for"

Is it? It would seem to me that pattern micing would rely on matched mics on equally gained channels...if one side is recieving more sound...so be it...thats the way it sounds to the "pattern"...

Now - the farther my mics are spaced apart...the greater my tendency to record each channel discretely...like "dual mono"

[C.Clark]

if your a little off center and one channel is hotter, for sure you need to even out the other channel.
why would you want to leave one channel at a louder volume, it just doenst make sense when you say
preserving the stereo image where one channel is crippled, .02

[hexyjones]

if your a little off center and one channel is hotter, for sure you need to even out the other channel.
why would you want to leave one channel at a louder volume, it just doenst make sense when you say
preserving the stereo image where one channel is crippled, .02

Because there is more sound coming from one side of the room than the other...and the channel isn't really crippled...it just doesnt happen to be recieving as strong a signal...

If you are recording a power trio...expect the guitarist on the right to be louder than the bassist on the left...thats just the natural balance of the source...you would be screwing with the image if you ran the bassists side hotter just to get a even reading...

[ChrisV]

Well with the UA-5 trying to have the channels be equal(especially if you ever have to adjust) at the show itself is kind of hard so I will try to make sure they are close to even in post.    I'll listen to it before and after and it most cases it does help the recording greatly...it just sounded off before and sounded much better after.

[Humbug]

I say compensate...by the way how the heck do you do this with Audacity?

I ahem *lost* Cooledit when my pc died recently and I've been struggling a little with Audacity.

[hexyjones]

Best way with Audacity:...

"Split Stereo Track" > Then "Amplify" the proper channel > Then "Make Stereo Track"

[C.Clark]

if your a little off center and one channel is hotter, for sure you need to even out the other channel.
why would you want to leave one channel at a louder volume, it just doenst make sense when you say
preserving the stereo image where one channel is crippled, .02

Because there is more sound coming from one side of the room than the other...and the channel isn't really crippled...it just doesnt happen to be recieving as strong a signal...

If you are recording a power trio...expect the guitarist on the right to be louder than the bassist on the left...thats just the natural balance of the source...you would be screwing with the image if you ran the bassists side hotter just to get a even reading...

i see your point, and i rarely ever tape power trio's, the bands i usually tape are 4-6 piece
and since moving onto laptop taping and having wavelab 5 metering at my fingertips makes
it very easy to fine tune levels out of the minime and it has worked just fine for me making
levels be somewhat matched and not lopsided
-to each there own

[hexyjones]

ORTF - XY - are very specific patterns that create a specific effect...I think there must be rules about setting levels that accompany each...

ORTF would seem to rely heavily on timing and phase differences...sort of like ears...(and you cant turn one of them up)

I was the guy on the right - on the pole - at the Richmond VA "Stockholm Syndrome" show...maybe 20 ft from the right PA stack... forward enough in the room that the left side of the PA is nearly non existient...

The right side mic is definitly getting more on-axis sound from the stack...but when listening to the tape..you don't notice the uneveness very much - if at all. If I boost the left (weaker) channel...it sounds funny - like I'm hearing too much of the hollow side of the room. And un-boosted...the bass "foundation" sounds equal on both channels...

[C.Clark]

i didnt realize you were talking about being that far over, thats kinda sucks
being 20' off center, i mainly am running DFC or close to it so, DIN and ORTF
work very well for me and my mics

[Tim]

if your levels are more than 2db or so off I don't think you're preserving the stereo image, I think you're ruining it. instead of being able to hear the music float between your speakers the sound will be weighted more to one side completely throwing off the imaging and balance.

are your mics matched that closely? Are you sure it's the mic configuration and not your actual mics that is causing this?

I don't know any tapers that just leave them as is when the levels are off, everyone I know tries to match as closely as possible. Anything more than 2db difference will be noticeable and I find it to be very distracting.

the sound engineer is not intentionally "weighting" one side of the room more than the other, so again, I don't think you're really preserving an accurate representation of how the room sounded that night.

**edit**

I see now that you are talking about being waaaaay off center. first recommendation is to bring a clamp and clamp to a center stand if you're running late. if that's not possible, run x/y and try and get the levels close. If you are waaaaay off center (like the SS show) you might be better off running a "stack" tape. That is, center yourself on one of the stacks and use the stereo configuration of your choice.

[hexyjones]

I see now that you are talking about being waaaaay off center. first recommendation is to bring a clamp and clamp to a center stand if you're running late. if that's not possible, run x/y and try and get the levels close. If you are waaaaay off center (like the SS show) you might be better off running a "stack" tape. That is, center yourself on one of the stacks and use the stereo configuration of your choice.

That is what I should have done...I wasn't that far off center...maybe 10 feet on a 40 foot stage...but I was close enough that I should have pointed my XY "arrow" (>) right at the stack...instread I pointed the arrow toward the middle of the stage...(probably further skewing the left channel) And maybe tightend up the angle a bit...more like 60 degrees...instead of 90...That SS show was hardcore...no wonder Craig puts his mics on the cieling...the floor moves enough that you get sway in your mic stand...not to mention the place was packed and there were hordes of mic stand grabbing shortcutters trying walk over everything...

[hexyjones]

i didnt realize you were talking about being that far over, thats kinda sucks
being 20' off center, i mainly am running DFC or close to it so, DIN and ORTF
work very well for me and my mics

I was 20 feet from the stack...and maybe only 15...I was really only 10 ft off center


<STACK>__________________________<--40ft-->______________________<STACK>






                                                                                        ME(XY)

[Humbug]

Best way with Audacity:...

"Split Stereo Track" > Then "Amplify" the proper channel > Then "Make Stereo Track"

Hexyjones, thanks for the help, works a treat. +t for you!

[marc0789]

I always even them out. bugs the shit out of me not to. might not be re-creating the sound where I was, but so be it, I can't listen to a show that's uneven by several db's. doesn't happen often, but for example happened a coupla weeks ago at blues traveler. we were more or less dfc, right in front of the soundboard, yet it seemed to me that the bass side was much louder. I evened them out quick and left 'em that way. I checked periodically to see if the sound guy evened things out, but nope.