Topic: Does Using DVD Shrink Create any "loss"?

[Tony B]

...Sorry, new to the DVD burning game, and wanted to make sure that any DVDs I trade out are as good as they can be. Does Using DVD shrink to copy the TS_Audio/Video files to your harddrive create any inherent "loss" in subsequent copies? Any settings on DVD Shrink that I should be aware of before I burn?

[Nick in Edinboro]

Yes.  It compresses the file to fit on a DVD-/+R disc...  Is it noticable?  Depends on the level of compression, but it's generally considered to do its compression well enough that it isn't as noticable.

[Gordon]

if you are talking about live shows on dvd they should not need to be compressed as they are cut to fit on one or two disc.  btw I wouldn't use dvd shrink to rip to the harddrive.  use DVD Decrypter (it's free) to rip and shrink only if you need to re author it.

[Tony B]

if you are talking about live shows on dvd they should not need to be compressed as they are cut to fit on one or two disc.  btw I wouldn't use dvd shrink to rip to the harddrive.  use DVD Decrypter (it's free) to rip and shrink only if you need to re author it.

Sorry, yes I'm talking about live shows, and I have DVD Decrypter as well. I'll use that going forward. Thanks!

t's

TB

[dnsacks]

Can't you simply open the live show via explorer and copy the "Video_TS" directory to your hard drive without using either program?  I thought dvd shrink/dvd decryptor were for working with protected/encrypted dvds.

[Gordon]

you can just copy it.  I'm new to this as well and have been told to rip.  anyone?

[kfrinkle]

DVD Decrypter is great at copying DVDs, it the DVD version of EAC, so use it to copy your concert DVDs for sure.  Shit programs like Nero can actually copy bad DVDs, and not tell you.  I have had a few DVDs in which the bup and ifo files were bad (not authored correctly), yet Nero went ahead and burned them anyways.  DVD Decrypter will tell you if there is a problem.

[Ed.]

i honestly don't know if you can straight copy them from the disc to the harddrive.  honestly, the extra step of opening dvd decryptor takes about two seconds and i'm guarenteed a working disc...copying takes many many minutes and i won't know if i wasted my time until i burn the dvd.  i'd rather just play it safe.

dvd decryptor is a great program, i use it to burn all my .iso files.
dvd shrink is also great.

and in my opinion, both programs put dvd x copy to shame.

[OFOTD]

Here is the gospel on ripping dvdd's:

Store bought DVD - Use DVD Shrink
Downloaded/burned  DVD - Windows Explorer or DVD Decrypter

The purpose of DVD Shrink is to allow you to copy a full length DVD (8GB) to fit on a recordable (4.3 GB)
Yes DVD Shrink does compress but it also allows you to cut out stuff you don't need like subtitles, foreign language tracks, bonus materials.

If you have a live show that has been burned onto the disc then just use Windows Explorer to copy the VIDEO_TS folder as the AUDIO_TS is empty!


Hope this helps and good luck!

[Zee]

The purpose of DVD Shrink is to allow you to copy a full length DVD (8GB) to fit on a recordable (4.3 GB)
Yes DVD Shrink does compress but it also allows you to cut out stuff you don't need like subtitles, foreign language tracks, bonus materials.

My understading of this is, if you take out enought stuff (french 5.1 2.0 bouns features) ect. so the total space is 4.3 GB or under is does not use compression.

[F.O.Bean]

The purpose of DVD Shrink is to allow you to copy a full length DVD (8GB) to fit on a recordable (4.3 GB)
Yes DVD Shrink does compress but it also allows you to cut out stuff you don't need like subtitles, foreign language tracks, bonus materials.

My understading of this is, if you take out enought stuff (french 5.1 2.0 bouns features) ect. so the total space is 4.3 GB or under is does not use compression.

exactly right bro, thats what i use dvd shrink for

each has theyre own uses, both are great and are totally free

[tilomagnet]

I think you can set it to "no compression" then it won´t compress at all. If you set "automatic" it will compress as much as necessairy that it fits on a standard 4,7 GB dvd.

[RRobar]

If these discs are burned discs you got in trade then by all means you can just copy the AUDIO_TS and The VIDEO_TS folders to your HD and then burn again. The only reason to need to use other decryptor programs is to copy DVD9 (store bought) dvd's (that you own ). Also the purpose of a shrink program is just to fit those ripped dvd's to a 4.7 GB disc. I don't run this program as I run a mac. I use MacThe Ripper to rip and DVD2OneX for shrinking. But if I want to back up a back up I just move the folders mentioned above and burn.

If your shrinking a disc to 4.7 and are concerned with video quality. Then select only the audio track you want (5.1, dolby, DTS, Ect.) and not just do a disc copy. Most DVD's while they say like 7.4 GB when ripped. There are usually multiple audio tacks that take up alot of space and most likely not needed by you.

[OFOTD]

The purpose of DVD Shrink is to allow you to copy a full length DVD (8GB) to fit on a recordable (4.3 GB)
Yes DVD Shrink does compress but it also allows you to cut out stuff you don't need like subtitles, foreign language tracks, bonus materials.

My understading of this is, if you take out enought stuff (french 5.1 2.0 bouns features) ect. so the total space is 4.3 GB or under is does not use compression.

DVD Shrink resamples everything.  Even if you just remove everything but the actual movie you are still getting compression.  Let's say you get rid of the unecessary audio tracks and bonus features and the actual movie part of it comes in at 3.5GB well DVD Shrink is going to take that and create a 4.7GB disc.  up sample or down sample it is still being resampled in some way or another.

[Evil Taper]

Wow, you guys are messing with your dvds much more than you need to.  If the master dvd plays fine and everything and is a single layer disc all that you have to do is make a disc image of the entire dvd with nero and then burn the image to a blank.  This makes a 100% backup of the original to the point where even the encoded dvd title that your computer reads the disc as will be the same.  There's no decrypting/encrypting needed whatsoever and it works flawlessly.  I've copied lots and lots of dvds like this and have not once has a problem with the burned copy having any glitches or not working properly.  If you're working with traded concert dvds this will work everytime since nobody is going to spend the $7 per disc to write dual layers.  So please stop messing with the discs when you copy them, this is why they seem to never work right when I get them


(also, when using DVD Shrink to copy a disc that's dual layered and under 140 minutes always use the re-author function and select only the main movie.  if it's a super high bit rate dvd you'll not notice anything after you compress it, if it's just a standard bit depth and say 2 hours 15 minutes you'll also not notice anything after compressing it.  anything longer than that and you'll start getting fuzzy burns and other noticeable residue of the compression.  as a rule of thumb you should probably never compress anything past 77% and only go that far if it's a super high bit rate.  anything past there and you'll not like your dub....this is what i've noticed at least.  alot of times on newer movies you can just dump the DTS track to get much better compression results since those are massive files.  you'll not miss them when their gone unless you have a super dooper hi-fi home theater that you need to justify buying because of DTS dvds )

[F.O.Bean]

The purpose of DVD Shrink is to allow you to copy a full length DVD (8GB) to fit on a recordable (4.3 GB)
Yes DVD Shrink does compress but it also allows you to cut out stuff you don't need like subtitles, foreign language tracks, bonus materials.

My understading of this is, if you take out enought stuff (french 5.1 2.0 bouns features) ect. so the total space is 4.3 GB or under is does not use compression.

DVD Shrink resamples everything. Even if you just remove everything but the actual movie you are still getting compression. Let's say you get rid of the unecessary audio tracks and bonus features and the actual movie part of it comes in at 3.5GB well DVD Shrink is going to take that and create a 4.7GB disc. up sample or down sample it is still being resampled in some way or another.

if this is true, the whole dvd would be written on, and theyre not, if it says it has 3.5GB(dvd shrink) of data, then it burns 3.5GB of data

[Evil Taper]

Yeah what Bean said.  That's a completely bogus statement.  DVD Shrink will just rip that amount of data bit for bit and then make it work properly.  That's like saying that a 10 minute cd is upsampled to take up the entire available space on the disc....you can definately burn a 1.5 gb dvd made on dvd shrink

[dnsacks]

My understanding of dvd shrink is that it's able to "copy" copy-protected content by "playing" the content through a player that contains the proper copy decoders and then "recording" the data stream being played back.  This suggests to me that the binary information for each frame that it records could well (will?) be different than that contained in the original source sample (at a minimum, if the source contained copy protection, the copy made by dvd-shrink would be protection-free). 

If my understanding is correct, it would seem that DVD Shrink is writing data that is different than that contained on the source disk and therefore is not performing a "lossless" operation in the truest sense of the wordk. Thus, it makes sense to copy dvds that do not contain copy protection (and are sourced on "normal" single layer dvd-r disks) using a different program (like nero's copy function, etc.) and only use dvd shrink for its intended purpose, backing up copy protected material.

[OFOTD]

Yeah what Bean said.  That's a completely bogus statement.  DVD Shrink will just rip that amount of data bit for bit and then make it work properly.  That's like saying that a 10 minute cd is upsampled to take up the entire available space on the disc....you can definately burn a 1.5 gb dvd made on dvd shrink

Not to turn this into an argument but it does resample.  It is not a straight bit for bit ripper.  The authors of DVD Shrink advise you to use a decrypter such as DVD Decrypter or DVD43Free.   There was a thread some time ago on doom9 about the quality of DVD Shrink when copying a DVD5 disc and how the decrypting used old algarithims.  They also suggest on the DVDShrink support forums that to "achieve a perfect copy" that you use ISO mode on DVD Decrypter. 

Now you could also use WinISO or even Nero to make an ISO to burn.  If you run DVD Shrink and rip a portion of the movie, save it to the HD and then compare file sizes you will see that these do NOT match up.  While they are in the same range of file size (within 1-50MB for a 4.3GB disc) it is not bit perfect.

DVD Shrink is a great program for certain features but is certainly not the one-in-all perfect solution.  Also remember that the sampling and resampling of audio and video are not as similar as we might think.   Doom9 obviously and dvdrhelp.com are great resources on video ripping, burning, etc.

[Evil Taper]

Copy protected dvd...what?  There's this nifty program called AnyDVD that you can download a trial version of before acquiring a full retail copy when you decide it rules.  Basically it removes any regional/copy protection and lets you do what you need to do to any dvd.  I'll have to agree that you should only be backing up stuff with DVDShrink that you can't backup with a disc image...dual layer discs and what not.  Why fix it if it ain't broken right?

[F.O.Bean]

FWIW< I have only used dvd shrink on store bought dvd's, nothing that ive received from trades like live phish shows, those for some strange reason only like to work w/ dvd decryptor

[Simp-Dawg]

i use dvd decryptor and dvd shrink as well to backup my blockbuster online rentals (just in case they need my help ) and i'm not too concerned about quality loss right now.  i don't have a great theater system yet, and i don't feel like making the effort to make great copies cuz i'll probably just end up buying whatever i really like eventually.

[Ed.]

the new version of dvd shrink has different quality settings for ripping the video.  it can now do serveral passes, etc, for better quality.  it'll take quite a bit longer, but if you want the high quality video, you can get it.  it might still not be as good as other rippers, but whatever.

also, i'm a nut for dts, thats one of the things i won't rip out of a video, i will rip the stereo and 5.1 dolby, but i'll keep the dts.  thats just me tho.  dts is great.

the only time i had a rip that i wasn't happy with was canibal the musical, but i was an idiot when i ripped it.  personally i keep most of the extras, but i compress them moreso than the main video.

[F.O.Bean]

theres a newer version available

[Evil Taper]

the only time i had a rip that i wasn't happy with was canibal the musical, but i was an idiot when i ripped it.  personally i keep most of the extras, but i compress them moreso than the main video.

Troma dvds all have the EXACT SAME EXTRAS!!!  That's the "Troma Intelligence Test" and the "Troma Studio Tour".  That's like 2gb of info to fill on every disc, but if you're a fan of such films send me a pm and you'll be glad you did

[NewHomebrew]

also, i'm a nut for dts, thats one of the things i won't rip out of a video, i will rip the stereo and 5.1 dolby, but i'll keep the dts.  thats just me tho.  dts is great.

Interesting.  You know that the PCM audio track is the only non-lossy audio track on a DVD, right?  DTS typically has a higher bitrate than Dolby, so if you had to pick one multichannel, DTS.

You kids and your "ripping"!  I haven't encountered a trade DVD that I couldn't just copy directly to my hard drive using Windows Explorer.

[Evil Taper]

It's called Netflix there guy....heh
And Mr. Ed guy...you want Cannibal The Musical I send you better copy (to back up yours of course )  Resident TS.com Troma Freak!!!!!

[Ed.]

It's called Netflix there guy....heh
And Mr. Ed guy...you want Cannibal The Musical I send you better copy (to back up yours of course ) Resident TS.com Troma Freak!!!!!

whoa, thanks for the offer, i'm all good tho, my roommate actually bought it - i just need to not be lazy and make another copy.