Topic: recording md with pc-line-in/mic-in = lossless?

[tod3sschu3tze]

hi guys!
i have got a question in regard to transfering a minidisc to my pc.
i have got a good ol' sony mz-r70 and always connect it to the pc with line-in/mic-in and record it to wave in 1x speed
after some editing with wavalab i burn it to audio-cd or convert to flac.
but today i had doubts whether the line/mic -method is lossy or not.
some ideas?

[bconnolly]

hi guys!
i have got a question in regard to transfering a minidisc to my pc.
i have got a good ol' sony mz-r70 and always connect it to the pc with line-in/mic-in and record it to wave in 1x speed
after some editing with wavalab i burn it to audio-cd or convert to flac.
but today i had doubts whether the line/mic -method is lossy or not.
some ideas?

Technically, anything analog is "lossy" but not in the same way that mp3 or ATRAC is lossy.  If you want bit-perfect transfer from your MD to your PC, you're going to have to transer the audio over an optical cable (if your MD recorder has that, not sure).

[tod3sschu3tze]

Technically, anything analog is "lossy" but not in the same way that mp3 or ATRAC is lossy.

yes, thats what confused me. the analog way it is lossy, but a convertion to mp3 or atrac means a compression and a loss of quality the analog method does not bring along.

If you want bit-perfect transfer from your MD to your PC, you're going to have to transer the audio over an optical cable (if your MD recorder has that, not sure).

unfortunately it has not.
but when i record a md to the pc with that analog method and burn it to cd, is it still correct to denote it as lossless copy?

[taktheride]

i'd call it lossless going either way: analog or optical out.  I only have analog out of my MD and when i seed something after transferring it via analog, I call it lossless.  All my old MD recordings sound so rough anyways cause of poor mics, its not much better to do it via optical I imagine...

[tod3sschu3tze]

i'd call it lossless going either way: analog or optical out.  I only have analog out of my MD and when i seed something after transferring it via analog, I call it lossless.  All my old MD recordings sound so rough anyways cause of poor mics, its not much better to do it via optical I imagine...

ok, thanks!!

[firmdragon]

i disagree.  the way i see it, transfering via analog is lossy.  transfering via optical out is  lossless; it's digital.  recording atrac is by nature lossy, however it's something you can't control.

[taktheride]

going back and thinking about my previous post i feel i should clarify

If at all posssible, transfer via optical

Since I dont have the means to do that and my MD shows aren't the greatest thing anyways...the best transfer treatment they will ever get is analog, so thats why I would call it lossless..

[Brian Skalinder]

It doesn't matter whether you call it lossy or lossless as long as the transfer process is documented.  I would leave lossy/lossless out of the picture entirely and simply describe the transfer process:  MD analog-out > soundcard analog-in > etc.

[rowjimmy]

It doesn't matter whether you call it lossy or lossless as long as the transfer process is documented.  I would leave lossy/lossless out of the picture entirely and simply describe the transfer process:  MD analog-out > soundcard analog-in > etc.

stole the words out of my mouth.

[chong138]

I've been thinking about the diffrence between analog or digital transfers lately too.  I don't do much trading ever...but for my own listening pleasure I want to know if there is a noticable diffrence between an analog or digital transfer with either a MD or DAT?  If there's a noticable diffrence then I'll spring for a MD deck with optical out and a 7 pin cable for my DAT. 

[Brian Skalinder]

I want to know if there is a noticable diffrence between an analog or digital transfer with either a MD or DAT?

Yes.

[(((KB)))]

There is a significant signal to noise ratio difference when comparing digital to analog transfers. The best transfer results so far I've had (that was within my buget) was using a home deck MD w/ digital out  to a home deck CD burner. (currently I'm using a Sony mdsjb-920 [open box deal for about $300] with a inexpensive burner RCA cdrw140 [on sale for about $150] This has produced a decent lossless MCDR for me, which then is imported on to my computer for editing/archiving (of couse, the higher end deck you have the better digital transfer you will have). There is one other issue with this method to consider: Home decks may or may not recognize  LP2, LP4 NETMD record modes and will not allow playback of these mode types. In my opinion, these modes shouldn't be used in recording anyway due to the undesirable increase of compression on top of the normal amount there already is with ATRAC.

If you're interested in upgrading your "transfer rig" here are some links to a cost-effective start:
Sony MD Home Deck:  ($129.95)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=277124&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
Sony 5 Disc changer/Burner ($217.99)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=277123&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

Hope you find this helpful,

(((KB)))

[SparkE!]

You'll get a copy with less degradation if you use a MD deck that has an optical output connected to a digital recorder that is capable of recording a bit literal copy of the signal that comes from the optical cable.  Sony has a fair number of miniDISC deck with optical outputs, but they are all full sized decks.  The one I use is a MDS-JE530 and I record to a NJB3 via TOSLINK optical cable.  That produces a .WAV file that represents exactly the digital bit stream that the MDS-JE530 sends to its D/A converter that drives the line output.

I'm not saying that you can't get good results by re-recording the line output of your miniDISC player.  I'm just saying that it's possible to do a better job with the right equipment.

[SparkE!]

Here's a link to all of Sony's decks if you are interested.  You'd want to look for the ones with optical outputs.

http://www.minidisc.org/part_Decks_Sony.html