Topic: Owning R-09 and looking for a good mic and pre set for it (Church set?)

[entropia.calante]

Hello to all, it's the first time I wrote in forum after have red here something very interesting!
I'm a novice taper and have a few question for you expert taping people.
Two words to introduce myself: my name is Maurizio from Italy; just bought from ebay a very good Edirol R-09, but as some of you knows, internal pre is a lot noisy.
I need to purchase a mic and a pre and reading forum I've made myself the idea that a Church pre and mics could be right for me.
My main purposes are to sthealth record some live gig (mainly jazz) for myself and also I need to record some nature sound (e.g. birds and other animals). I have a CONDENSER SHOTGUN cardioid for these nature sounds that seems to work well (Audio-Technica ATR55 Telemike), but also here I need more amplification (but not noise).
I was wondering if Church-Audio STC-9000 stereo cardioid microphone system selling on eBay for 200$ could be good both for concerts and for nature sounds (only the preamp with ATR55).
I've already seen the Church-Audio ST-9100 stereo microphone preamp that seems with better spec (but only 20 dB gain versus 30 dB of STC 9000).
I need the maximum gain so 30 is really better than 20...indeed 9000 is far cheaper...that is not bad at all! . But really I do not understand very well the differences in performances and field of use of both two pre.
Maybe some of you can help me to choose??? I would be very greatful, maybe directly good Mr. Church could answer to me ...I hope.
Please have my best wishes to all the forum... a very very good people to learn from.

Bye, Maurizio

P.S. And what about SP Preamp and Preamp 11, that have both a stunning 42 dB gain...?

[dorrcoq]

Welcome!  I use the STC-9000 with my Edirol R-09, and I'm very happy with the preamp and mics.  I haven't recorded any nature sounds, but it does a great job for loud and quieter cocnerts.

Dennis

[Arni99]

I´d go for the SP-PEAMP-11 as it´s considerably smaller than the curch preamp.
Consider the SP-PREAMP-11´s 12V battery lasts for 20 hours only......but for stealthing I´d go for the SP preamp.

[guysonic]

As a designer with over 35 years experience in audio I must comment that single stage preamp gain can be set very high (>30 dB), but increases in signal distortion, and decrease in high frequency resolution also occurs if not very, very careful with critical choices in design.  Most single amp stages are mostly good to <30 dB gains, above which performance drops significantly.

Suggest a less known, but very good choice for nature recording using R-09 with Sonic Studios PA-3SX preamp (20/28/36 dB gain), and is most appropriate powering DSM-1S/H mic model + WHB/N windscreen for nature recording system.



Same model PA-3SX pre is good for using with other self-powered mics like you have, and also live music recording, but NO windscreen needed for indoors using suggested appropriate mic models DSM-6S/H (best for pure acoustic performance, no big PA bass amps), or DSM-6S/M for jazz/moderately bass-loud PA'd bass pop/rock venue recording.

More preamp models found at http://www.sonicstudios.com/access.htm#micamp
Mic models specification chart at www.sonicstudios.com/dsm.htm#chart

And something you will find far too little researching other mic/pre recording systems are a multitude of sample recordings done with same recording gear you might purchase recording the same sounds of personal interest at:
www.sonicstudios.com/mp3.htm for natural sounds
www.sonicstudios.com/mp3_2slp.htm for live music recordings

[entropia.calante]

Thanks to all for the replies.

Sonic Studios PA-3SX preamp could be a very good choice...but it's too much expensive for my budget.
For the SP-PEAMP-11 it's one of my favourite but I'm not satisfied for the 12 V batteries that here in my town is not so easy to find.
So, till know ST9000 is the best candidate; just would like to know differencies in performance in terms of really low signals with ST9100.

I hope that other people answer to my questions so they can help me to make the right choice.

For now, all the best to you and thanks again

Maurizio

[Arni99]

Thanks to all for the replies.

Sonic Studios PA-3SX preamp could be a very good choice...but it's too much expensive for my budget.
For the SP-PEAMP-11 it's one of my favourite but I'm not satisfied for the 12 V batteries that here in my town is not so easy to find.
So, till know ST9000 is the best candidate; just would like to know differencies in performance in terms of really low signals with ST9100.

I hope that other people answer to my questions so they can help me to make the right choice.

For now, all the best to you and thanks again

Maurizio

Hi Maurizio,
I see you live in Italy.
Don´t you have these big electronic markets in Italy like in Austria or Germany called "Media Markt"?
There they sell 12V batteries for 3€.
On ebay you get these batteries even cheaper I guess.
Ciao from Vienna
Arni

Get a HIGH-sense cardioid mic which does NOT distort at high soundpressure levels, i.e. MM-HLSC-1 cardioid mic from www.microphonemadness.com .
With this mic you are on the safe side and don´t need a preamp for amplified shows using LINE-IN with a 9V battery box for providing proper power to the mics.
You can even use them on the R09´s MIC-IN (with or without-=>plugin-power on R09- a battery box), I taped a loud club show on MIC-IN using the MM-HLSC-1+9V battery box and it came out great.

Get a small bbox and a high sensitive mic as the above and you have 1 thing less to deal with .

If money didn´t matter, I´d go for the "DPA 4060" omnidrectional microphone....2 mics make 630 Euro.
You need to buy adapters for it´s microdot plug system .
DPA sells it´s MMA6000 preamp for ~400 Euro which has 37,5dB gain in 2,5dB steps.
When you buy the dPA mics+dpa preamp you don´t need adapters for mic-termination.
www.dpamicrophones.com
http://dpamicrophones.com/module.php?MID=101&itemid=4060-BM&PID=&function=pdescription
http://dpamicrophones.com/module.php?MID=101&itemid=MMA6000&PID=&function=pdescription

no preamp, just a 9V bbox from DPA:
http://dpamicrophones.com/module.php?MID=101&itemid=MPS6030&PID=&function=pdescription

[entropia.calante]

Hi Arni

You are so kind to write your reply to me. I've red also a lot of your posts and they are helping me to make an idea about mics and pres...
Ok for the 12 V batteries...it's ok also in Italy, first I believed to be a different one.
For the pre, I understand your suggestions but I really need a 1 complete set used for live gigs and same for nature sounds; so I need the pre for amplify that little sounds from small and distant animals and at the same time for using the line-in of my R-09 to minimize the high noise of mic-in for all other registrations.

And than...money IS ALWAYS a problem...I've just bought R-09, 2 mics, a new laptop...and so on!!!
I really was attracted from the eBay set by Church Audio that is: <<STEREO PREAMP & MICS 4 MINDISC DAT EDIROL R09 MICRO BR
CHURCH AUDIO STC-9000 CARDIOD MICROPHONE SYSTEM>> sold for 199 $, so not expensive but I think good for concerts and....maybe but I have not proof...for nature sound recording.
Another question, if you are so kind: if I chose to go for the SP-PREAMP-11 - SOUND PROFESSIONALS, that is sold for 199 $, which mic from the same supplier could be a good match?
Bear in mind the cost, because the SP-CMC-2 at 159 $ is out of budget for me toghther to SP-11.

Thanks again... all the best and cheers to all the people from this GREAT-GREAT forum

Maurizio

[Arni99]

for nature sound recording I would choose the sp-tfb-2 in ear binaural mic as HIGH-sens-version.
it produces extreme realistic stereo effects when used in-ear and your hands are free for ie. videotaping.


for concert recording safe some money and don´t buy cheap stuff.....200$-3000$ =>good or very good mics .

[entropia.calante]

Could be an interesting options...I've red good reviews about this mic.
I think about what you've said and hope to read other opinions specially about CHURCH AUDIO STC-11 with 9100 and 9000 and differences about these two pre, versus the SP-PREAMP-11.
My main doubt is about differences in real gain between these pre.
And don't you consider a good option the CHURCH AUDIO STC-11 with any of the 3 pre

Hi
Maurizio

[entropia.calante]

Hei...I think you are right...I'm not so experienced in forums
Thanks so much Arni...hope to meet you again!

Maurizio

[ambo]

if you are going to record quiet nature sounds, then keep in mind that all of the lav style minimics are noisy. Over in Naturesounds Yahoo group, the consensus for quiet recordings seems to be mics with a selfnoise of less than 14db. The Churchs, MM, SP, and even DPA's are much noisier. This isn't a problem for most music recording however.

[Church-Audio]

Could be an interesting options...I've red good reviews about this mic.
I think about what you've said and hope to read other opinions specially about CHURCH AUDIO STC-11 with 9100 and 9000 and differences about these two pre, versus the SP-PREAMP-11.
My main doubt is about differences in real gain between these pre.
And don't you consider a good option the CHURCH AUDIO STC-11 with any of the 3 pre

Hi
Maurizio

My preamp  does not have enough gain for very quiet nature recording. Its great for acoustic shows and for loud rock concerts, but I did not design it for nature recording. For nature recording you need at least 40 db of gain the Edirol is a good recorder but you might be better off with a nice Sony Md and a good pair of omni mics. I make a nice set for $109.99 this connected straight into a MD recorder should be enough gain for most situations. But again that's just my opinion.

Chris

[Church-Audio]

As a designer with over 35 years experience in audio I must comment that single stage preamp gain can be set very high (>30 dB), but increases in signal distortion, and decrease in high frequency resolution also occurs if not very, very careful with critical choices in design.  Most single amp stages are mostly good to <30 dB gains, above which performance drops significantly.

Suggest a less known, but very good choice for nature recording using R-09 with Sonic Studios PA-3SX preamp (20/28/36 dB gain), and is most appropriate powering DSM-1S/H mic model + WHB/N windscreen for nature recording system.


Same model PA-3SX pre is good for using with other self-powered mics like you have, and also live music recording, but NO windscreen needed for indoors using suggested appropriate mic models DSM-6S/H (best for pure acoustic performance, no big PA bass amps), or DSM-6S/M for jazz/moderately bass-loud PA'd bass pop/rock venue recording.

I guess its a good thing I am really careful then. You never waste an opportunity to flog your gear! I love your consistency!

Chris

[Church-Audio]

for nature sound recording I would choose the sp-tfb-2 in ear binaural mic as HIGH-sens-version.
it produces extreme realistic stereo effects when used in-ear and your hands are free for ie. videotaping.


for concert recording safe some money and don´t buy cheap stuff.....200$-3000$ =>good or very good mics .

Some people actually like my "cheap stuff"  they actually think it sounds good. So do I but I guess I am a bit biased..

[entropia.calante]

Hi Chris,

thanks a lot for answering directly to my questions.

I would like tu use R-09 and not buy an MD, so is the set you are speaking about not good for my R-09 ? Nor cant't you help me with a suggestion about another set from you? Maybe not the best for both world (music & Nature) but a good compromise... in fact life is sometimes a matter of compromises
Otherways...what do you think  of SP-PREAMP-11 (I know is not a your creature ) but you are so equilbrate that I can trust you, really I think.
All the best