Topic: AT8531 Power Module Question

[cgrooves]

Thinking of picking up some of the AT853's (not SP modified) with the AT8531 power module.

The specs for this power module reference a AA battery. Does this battery go into the power module? Is this AA battery required when running phantom power, or is it another way to power the mic without using a preamp or battery box setup?

(I've searched the threads, and like the option of setting up the 853's with the mini xlr's (etc.) so you can utilize a battery box or preamp, depending on the situation.)

Thanks!

[pfife]

nah, there's no battery in the power module- it just sends the right power to the mics. You are going to need some source of power for the mics- if you aren't using the SP modified ones, you'll need +48V phantom power - such as that provided by a Denecke PS-2.

HTH

[cgrooves]

Thanks for the reply.
I know there are several power modules that can be used with these mics (even the non-AT modules like the ones that SP use).....but, this particular module seemed odd because it referenced a AA battery. 
What is the purpose of the AA battery, and where does it go?

Check out the specifications:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=AUAT8531&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku=163116

[cgrooves]

Ok. I did more research. The AA battery does go into the module. It is a 'box' style module, and not the smaller 'cylinder' style module.  This particular module comes with the AT853a's.  This setup seems to be ideal for what I'm looking for, because it appears that the 8531 module can be used as a battery box (even has roll-off switch) or in conjunction with a preamp.  The input for the module is mini xlr and the output from the box is xlr.  To use the mics without a preamp, I would use a '(2) xlr's to (1) 1/8" stereo mini cable', and bring the signals straight out of the two modules into my DAT deck.  When using a preamp, I would use 2 'xlr to xlr cables', connected from the modules to the preamp.  This option appears better than (or equal to) a battery box, because you are delivering 9v to each mic with separate power modules and have bass roll-off option.   

Does a typical battery box deliver 9v to EACH microphone?

Is my logic sound?

[pfife]

Ah, sorry... your question is getting out of my realm of knowledge,unfortunately.

What I will tell you is that its commonplace within these threads that the AT853's perform at a higher level when you are using +48v phantom power, as opposed to a battery box. 

Do you plan to stealth quite a bit?

[poorlyconditioned]

Ok. I did more research. The AA battery does go into the module. It is a 'box' style module, and not the smaller 'cylinder' style module.  This particular module comes with the AT853a's.  This setup seems to be ideal for what I'm looking for, because it appears that the 8531 module can be used as a battery box (even has roll-off switch) or in conjunction with a preamp.  The input for the module is mini xlr and the output from the box is xlr.  To use the mics without a preamp, I would use a '(2) xlr's to (1) 1/8" stereo mini cable', and bring the signals straight out of the two modules into my DAT deck.  When using a preamp, I would use 2 'xlr to xlr cables', connected from the modules to the preamp.  This option appears better than (or equal to) a battery box, because you are delivering 9v to each mic with separate power modules and have bass roll-off option.   

Does a typical battery box deliver 9v to EACH microphone?

Is my logic sound?

I have never seen these modules in person, so please take this advice with caution.

But my impression is that there are two types of power adapters, one box-like thing (8531) with a battery (AA) or phantom, and a second barrel-like one (8533) that is phantom only.

OK, if you use the box-like one, you should be able to run the outputs of the mic *directly* into your minidisc.  Just make an adapter that goes from XLR to mini plug.  That should work and you will not need a battery box.  The purpose of the battery box is to provide bias power to the mic, and the AA cell in the box already does that.  I don't know the correct wiring of XLR to miniplug though.

  Richard

PS: If you want to use a battery box to power the mics, you have to remove the adaptor and power the mics directly.  That is what I am doing, since I don't have any power modules.

[cgrooves]

Thanks.

Don't plan on stealthing too much.  I just don't have a preamp right now, so I would probably want to purchase the 853a microphones. These come with the 8531 power module referenced above, and would keep me from having to buy a battery box.  For now, I would just buy the microphones, along with a cable to merge 2 xlr's into 1 stereo mini plug. If I were planning on stealthing alot, I would rule out using both of these large power modules, and just use one battery box instead.

[pfife]

Thanks.

Don't plan on stealthing too much.  I just don't have a preamp right now, so I would probably want to purchase the 853a microphones. These come with the 8531 power module referenced above, and would keep me from having to buy a battery box.  For now, I would just buy the microphones, along with a cable to merge 2 xlr's into 1 stereo mini plug. If I were planning on stealthing alot, I would rule out using both of these large power modules, and just use one battery box instead.

are you planning to get a preamp soon?  If so, that will provide your phantom power (most likely) and will sound nicer than a battery box.  You'll then want to get the AT8533 modules, I do believe.

[poorlyconditioned]

Thanks.

Don't plan on stealthing too much.  I just don't have a preamp right now, so I would probably want to purchase the 853a microphones. These come with the 8531 power module referenced above, and would keep me from having to buy a battery box.  For now, I would just buy the microphones, along with a cable to merge 2 xlr's into 1 stereo mini plug. If I were planning on stealthing alot, I would rule out using both of these large power modules, and just use one battery box instead.

are you planning to get a preamp soon?  If so, that will provide your phantom power (most likely) and will sound nicer than a battery box.  You'll then want to get the AT8533 modules, I do believe.

Please check the 8531.  I think it will operate on *both* battery and phantom power.  This is the most flexible.  I don't think the 8531 is that big either.  Remember the cables themselves on these things are 25', you gotta stuff that somewhere too...

  Richard

[pfife]

OK, I guess am misunderstanding  I thought you were talking about the connectors - my bad... but  isn't the AT8531 basically a battery box?  And, do you need 2 of them if you are running 2 mics?  If you are going to have to get 2 of them, IMO, you'd be better served to get a Denecke PS-2, and the AT8533 connectors at the end of your 853's, which will:

a) send actual +48v to the mics, which will make them perform higher level than running them with a battery box.
b) PS-2's are routinely found for around $100 used, which is comparable to the price of 2 of these boxes you are looking at (but is better cause it's +48v!).  It runs off a normal 9v battery.
c) AT8533 connectors are basically normal XLRM connectors - those will plug into the PS-2, as well as almost any other preamp, and will take phantom power.  AT853's w/ AT8533 connectors go by AT853Rx model.

Sorry if I am off base here.

~Andrew

[leegeddy]

OK, I guess am misunderstanding  I thought you were talking about the connectors - my bad... but  isn't the AT8531 basically a battery box?  And, do you need 2 of them if you are running 2 mics?  If you are going to have to get 2 of them, IMO, you'd be better served to get a Denecke PS-2, and the AT8533 connectors at the end of your 853's, which will:

a) send actual +48v to the mics, which will make them perform higher level than running them with a battery box.
b) PS-2's are routinely found for around $100 used, which is comparable to the price of 2 of these boxes you are looking at (but is better cause it's +48v!).  It runs off a normal 9v battery.
c) AT8533 connectors are basically normal XLRM connectors - those will plug into the PS-2, as well as almost any other preamp, and will take phantom power.  AT853's w/ AT8533 connectors go by AT853Rx model.

Sorry if I am off base here.

~Andrew

i have a pair of AT853a and only ran the AT8531 battery box for one stealth show. never again!!! the performace of the mics w/ the 1.5v AA battery power is poor. i brickwalled heavily and never used the AT8531 ever again (with the battery).

running the AT8531 w/ phantom power from a preamp is exactly same as running AT8533/AT8533x. you simply remove the AA from the box and keep the switch on the "OFF" position.

AT8531 vs. AT8533 is another story though size wise. AT8531 is about the size of a Camel cigarrette box, which isn't too great for stealthing (you'll need one for each mic).

so my advise is go with the AT853Rx version IF you plan on running phantom power.

marc

[cgrooves]

Thanks for the help folks.
You cleared up the waters for me. 

[spyder9]

Ditto, on the 853RX.  Phantom is king!

[Idle Wind]

853Rx with phantom rocks the house.

there's a cheap phantom box up in yard sale - $35 2x48V

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=32721.0

[Alchemy]

OK, I guess am misunderstanding  I thought you were talking about the connectors - my bad... but  isn't the AT8531 basically a battery box?  And, do you need 2 of them if you are running 2 mics?  If you are going to have to get 2 of them, IMO, you'd be better served to get a Denecke PS-2, and the AT8533 connectors at the end of your 853's, which will:

a) send actual +48v to the mics, which will make them perform higher level than running them with a battery box.
b) PS-2's are routinely found for around $100 used, which is comparable to the price of 2 of these boxes you are looking at (but is better cause it's +48v!).  It runs off a normal 9v battery.
c) AT8533 connectors are basically normal XLRM connectors - those will plug into the PS-2, as well as almost any other preamp, and will take phantom power.  AT853's w/ AT8533 connectors go by AT853Rx model.

Sorry if I am off base here.

~Andrew

i have a pair of AT853a and only ran the AT8531 battery box for one stealth show. never again!!! the performace of the mics w/ the 1.5v AA battery power is poor. i brickwalled heavily and never used the AT8531 ever again (with the battery).

running the AT8531 w/ phantom power from a preamp is exactly same as running AT8533/AT8533x. you simply remove the AA from the box and keep the switch on the "OFF" position.

AT8531 vs. AT8533 is another story though size wise. AT8531 is about the size of a Camel cigarrette box, which isn't too great for stealthing (you'll need one for each mic).

so my advise is go with the AT853Rx version IF you plan on running phantom power.

marc

Warning: This is a thread originally from 2004.

I thought the whole purpose of the AT8531 was to provide phantom power off of the 1.5 volts from the AA battery. Or is the purpose instead to adapt the mics to accept phantom power from another source, much like the AT8533?

[illconditioned]

Thinking of picking up some of the AT853's (not SP modified) with the AT8531 power module.

The specs for this power module reference a AA battery. Does this battery go into the power module? Is this AA battery required when running phantom power, or is it another way to power the mic without using a preamp or battery box setup?

(I've searched the threads, and like the option of setting up the 853's with the mini xlr's (etc.) so you can utilize a battery box or preamp, depending on the situation.)

Thanks!

The AT8531 are only good if you run phantom.  They don't provide enough volts with the AA battery.

My advice, get a three-wire battery box.  You've got miniXLR connectors on your AT853, right?  I think Will_S has some battery boxes.  Send him a PM, or post an "ISO" for three-wire battery boxes.

Otherwise just do a 4.7k mod on your mics and terminate in a miniplug.  Chris Church can probably help you out if you cannot solder.  And, no, I'm not offering to do any mods... Sorry, I'm not able at the moment...  I'll just offer advice from behind the keyboard...

 Richard

[Will_S]

Thinking of picking up some of the AT853's (not SP modified) with the AT8531 power module.

The specs for this power module reference a AA battery. Does this battery go into the power module? Is this AA battery required when running phantom power, or is it another way to power the mic without using a preamp or battery box setup?

(I've searched the threads, and like the option of setting up the 853's with the mini xlr's (etc.) so you can utilize a battery box or preamp, depending on the situation.)

Thanks!

The AT8531 are only good if you run phantom.  They don't provide enough volts with the AA battery.

My advice, get a three-wire battery box.  You've got miniXLR connectors on your AT853, right?  I think Will_S has some battery boxes.  Send him a PM, or post an "ISO" for three-wire battery boxes.

My boxes are both based on fozzy's Crown Royal design where the two mics terminate to a single miniXLR (when you include the sleeve of the connector, this works out to enough conductors to do 3 wire power for each mic).  But, I can include a short bit of cable I chopped off my mics to do the 4.7k mod which you can copy to figure out how to wire your mics to work with the boxes.

[Alchemy]

Thinking of picking up some of the AT853's (not SP modified) with the AT8531 power module.

The specs for this power module reference a AA battery. Does this battery go into the power module? Is this AA battery required when running phantom power, or is it another way to power the mic without using a preamp or battery box setup?

(I've searched the threads, and like the option of setting up the 853's with the mini xlr's (etc.) so you can utilize a battery box or preamp, depending on the situation.)

Thanks!

The AT8531 are only good if you run phantom.  They don't provide enough volts with the AA battery.

I see what you are saying...but there is someone on DIME that posts recordings with a basic AT853>AT8531>R-09 and the clarity is great. It is the type of sound that can only be acheived with phantom power. That's why I'm confused.

[jeromejello]

i have run my at853a's with the 8531 batterybox/p48 adapter as well as my current 8533 p48 adapters.

the 8531 were pretty much useless for anything i needed them to do.  only providing 1.5v of power to mic is IMO not really powering these mics.  as a p48 adapter they are (as previously mentioned) the size of a pack of cigs and need a XLR break out cable if you are going to run into a pre.  in sum, they underpowered the mics and were too bulky.

on the advice of a member here (i think marc kim) i sent my 8531 boxes to AT and had them send me 8533's instead.  Since the 8531's were practically new, it was free of charge (other than the cost to ship to AT).  These are the p48 barrels that everyone in familar with.  i use these for p48 applications and had a battery box for smaller discrete needs.  these days, i havent really powered the at853a's with anything other than the SD MP-2.

[Roger Gustavsson]

Is this not just a case of different supply voltages giving different overload levels? A higher voltage feeding the internal FET of the capsule will normally result in more headroom. The specification of the AT853a says max 121dB with 1.5V and 135dB with 9-52V. I think there is only 9V (or slightly less) of supply to the FET with Phantom Power. Would it be possible to replace the 1.5V AA battery with two 3.6V ½AA lithium batteries (=7.2V)?

[cgrooves]

Is this not just a case of different supply voltages giving different overload levels? A higher voltage feeding the internal FET of the capsule will normally result in more headroom. The specification of the AT853a says max 121dB with 1.5V and 135dB with 9-52V. I think there is only 9V (or slightly less) of supply to the FET with Phantom Power. Would it be possible to replace the 1.5V AA battery with two 3.6V ½AA lithium batteries (=7.2V)?

 

I'm sure someone could do this mod, but then you have 2 power modules that are even bulkier than they are stock.  The better solution (sizewise) would be to use a single 9v powered battery box that powers both mics. 

I still haven't used my 8531's with AA's; just as a means to step down the p48 to a voltage that the mics can handle.

[Roger Gustavsson]

The power modules will not become any bulkier. Two ½AA are just the same size as one AA! Just put smaller batteries in series. What you get is 7.2V where you had 1.5V. The increased headroom would be of use in many cases. This would be more or less on par with a Phantom Power if that is what you want. 

Roger

[cgrooves]

The power modules will not become any bulkier. Two ½AA are just the same size as one AA! Just put smaller batteries in series. What you get is 7.2V where you had 1.5V. The increased headroom would be of use in many cases. This would be more or less on par with a Phantom Power if that is what you want. 

Roger

Gotcha.  I missed the 1/2 part. 

[kozakz]

My experience with the AT8531 is that they are absolutelly crap for loud concerts with 1 AA battery. If I turn on the bass roll off then the sound got much better. With the bass roll off they are usable, but not the perfect solution.

[Alchemy]

There has to be a mod for this box that no one is talking about. This certain someone is using 1 AA battery in each module and getting great results at high volume shows. What everyone says here makes complete sense to me, but at the same time there seems to be an exception. 

Here is a prime example...

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=158830

[OOK]

There is a solution, several.  I had sound pro build me a preamp box that each mic has its own 3 wire hook up That runs on a 9volt.   It raised the SPL handling of the mics.  They worked great from that point on. I believe that it supplys 9 volts bias power at the mics, which is much higher than the 1.5-3 volts plug in power that most recorders provide.

Prior to that I had the single plug two wire set up and the mics bottomed out bad in loud enviorments.

Sound pro will also make pigtails that have these power modules made for the mics.  They allow you to run phantom power. http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/AT8533X

I have my set up for sale here.  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=94770.0
sorry for the shameless plug.  But these do work great.

[cgrooves]

Sound pro will also make pigtails that have these power modules made for the mics.  They allow you to run phantom power. http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/AT8533X

The AT8531's allow you to run phantom power too (in case you didn't realize it).  The AA battery is just another option that is pretty much useless (in most people's opinion).  The concensus seems to be that the 8533's are the better option for running phantom, because it is a more compact solution (i.e. doesn't require the pigtails).  The reason I originally went with the AT8531's was because of the battery powered option.  If I had known then what I know now, I would have just went with the AT8533's.

[nameloc01]

Get yourself a factory made phantom power ( a denecke ps2 for example) the adaptors and you will be completely set. If you do that you will not be able to overload them, trust me.

[Church-Audio]

Ah, sorry... your question is getting out of my realm of knowledge,unfortunately.

What I will tell you is that its commonplace within these threads that the AT853's perform at a higher level when you are using +48v phantom power, as opposed to a battery box. 

Do you plan to stealth quite a bit?

Not true actually, they perform exactly the same as a matter of fact some of the "AT" phantom adaptors actually have a high pass filter at 100hz in them that is always on. This actually serves to further degrade the low end of the mics connected to them * unless that's what you want * the bias voltage between 5 volts and 12 volts makes very little if any change in the mics overload characteristics.