Author Topic: which mic works best with the mr-1 (Read 6858 times)

audiothings · « **on:** February 10, 2008, 08:14:49 AM »

greetings

which stereo omni mic with high sensitivity/low noise floor (for recording acoustic sources) is known to work well directly (without external battery box) with the korg mr-1's internal preamp?

thanks,

moooose · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2008, 02:21:17 PM »

I don't know (and never will know) which mic works best. I know that AT 853 U omnis (soundprofessionals) works imho very well without any battery box.

audiothings · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2008, 02:03:30 AM »

thank you moooose. i am unable to find the 853u omnis on either sound professional's site or audio technica's site. i did find the sp cmc-8 quite interesting, but it uses the at943 caps. do you think it will perform equally well without a battery box?

thanks,

Javier Cinakowski · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2008, 09:30:01 AM »

Quote from: audiothings on February 11, 2008, 02:03:30 AM

thank you moooose. i am unable to find the 853u omnis on either sound professional's site or audio technica's site. i did find the sp cmc-8 quite interesting, but it uses the at943 caps. do you think it will perform equally well without a battery box?

thanks,

On Audio Technica's site it is U853R

On Sound Pro's site it is sp cmc-4u (or something similar)

moooose · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2008, 03:08:13 PM »

yes yes yes, the sp model is called cmc-4u (here is the link to the page: http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-4U).

Regarding battery box, it all depends on the sound pressure level. I would at first try without battery box; anyway if you have a basic confidence with a soldering iron you can easily DIY a battery box - it's really simple and fun.

nameloc01 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2008, 10:56:30 PM »

The u853 are designed to utilize a 3wire power setup. ...in one form or another.

Javier Cinakowski · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2008, 09:21:55 AM »

Quote from: nameloc01 on February 11, 2008, 10:56:30 PM

The u853 are designed to utilize a 3wire power setup. ...in one form or another.

I don't see how that is a helpful post. $:-\$

Almost any microphone that would plug into the mr-1 would perform better if used with a 3-wire setup. This is not unique to the 853...

That being said, the 1/8" version of the 853 works just fine for moderatly loud sources. For loud sources a 1/8" plug will work just fine if a resistor (4k7,2k2) modification is used. Church Audio, Sound Professionals and others on this borad can do this modification. The 4.7 mod that Church developed performs just as well as the 3-wire setup, and is more convienient....

audiothings · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2008, 09:52:50 AM »

i have a pair of avenson sto2s in the studio...

they are very similar in specs to several mics discussed here, and use the same panasonic capsules that many miniature mics use. for my intended applications, i would like something less noisy than them (27 dBA), and the only ones i can find are the dpa4060 (23 dBA) and maybe the sonic studios DSM-1S/x (26 dBA).

are there any others?

thanks,

nameloc01 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2008, 11:30:58 AM »

What i said..since you didnt catch it..is that they were designed to use a 3w setup. I said nothing else. The mod is beneficial if you already have a 2w bb or recorder that has adequate plug in power. But then you are bound to that or similar..plug in power wise..recorder. Think about it.

Javier Cinakowski · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2008, 11:37:22 AM »

Quote from: nameloc01 on February 12, 2008, 11:30:58 AM

What i said..since you didnt catch it..is that they were designed to use a 3w setup. I said nothing else. The mod is beneficial if you already have a 2w bb or recorder that has adequate plug in power. But then you are bound to that or similar..plug in power wise..recorder. Think about it.

No, I caught what you said and understand it very clearly.

The creator of this thread asked a very specific question, regarding microphones that will work directly with the mr-1, without any battery box.

There was no reason to mention anything about 3-wire setups in this instance. 3-wire setups will not work without the use of a battery box or compatible preamp. Additionally, it has been demonstrated that a modification such as Mr. Church's will allow proper performance of 3-wire electrets, in a 2-wire format, negating any reason to raise this 3-wire issue.

nameloc01 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2008, 11:43:30 AM »

Fyi. I just called a.t. , ar they have an office about 30 mins. From me.. The engineer i spoke said..any modification to their mics at all..voids the a.t. warrantee. Period.

Javier Cinakowski · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2008, 12:00:10 PM »

Quote from: nameloc01 on February 12, 2008, 11:43:30 AM

Fyi. I just called a.t. , ar they have an office about 30 mins. From me.. The engineer i spoke said..any modification to their mics at all..voids the a.t. warrantee. Period.

As far as warranty issues go, you are only slightly correct: Modification to the microphone body or capsule would absolutly void the warranty.

However, modification to the wire, is likely completly acceptable. Audio Technica understands the fact that people will add different connectors to the calbes. Typically in modular systems such as the Engineer Sound and UniPoint line, customers will use different connectors to be used for different purposes. Be it a wireless transmitter connector, mini-xlr, 1/8", xlr or hardwired to a power supply/walpack....

Church-Audio · « **Reply #12 on:** February 12, 2008, 12:16:31 PM »

Quote from: nameloc01 on February 12, 2008, 11:43:30 AM

Fyi. I just called a.t. , ar they have an office about 30 mins. From me.. The engineer i spoke said..any modification to their mics at all..voids the a.t. warrantee. Period.

Well I think he misunderstood your question.. Actually replacing the connector on a microphone does not void your warranty.. Why because there are no standards for audio connectors for mics used with wireless body packs.. So if AT did have a warranty like this they would not be smart at all since anyone that owns one of these mics might want to change the connectors. Secondly I was doing a play in Canada and we were having issues so I did some consulting with AT on solving the issue and resoldering connectors was never an issue with them.

UPDATE.. I put a call into Jim Walker he is the head of technical services for AT. He will give me the last word on this. It seems silly to me because many companies change wireless connectors on mics. And I know I did not have this issue with them 2 years ago when we were working out issues for the 800 series mics for a show I was doing.

Chris

Javier Cinakowski · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2008, 12:19:14 PM »

Quote from: Church-Audio on February 12, 2008, 12:16:31 PM

Quote from: nameloc01 on February 12, 2008, 11:43:30 AM
Fyi. I just called a.t. , ar they have an office about 30 mins. From me.. The engineer i spoke said..any modification to their mics at all..voids the a.t. warrantee. Period.

Well I think he misunderstood your question.. Actually replacing the connector on a microphone does not void your warranty.. Why because there are no standards for audio connectors for mics used with wireless body packs.. So if AT did have a warranty like this they would not be smart at all since anyone that owns one of these mics might want to change the connectors. Secondly I was doing a play in Canada and we were having issues so I did some consulting with AT on solving the issue and resoldering connectors was never an issue with them.

Chris

I dunno Chris, he only lives 30 miles from the AT office, he must know what he is talking about...

nameloc01 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2008, 01:06:25 PM »

What i know is the engineer at the stow,ohio office clearly stated the u853 come with a mini xlr..because..again..they were designed for 3w. He stated adding anything to or taking anything off of them at all voids the warrantee. He did use the word "period" so if you are looking to argue that call them yourself...1-330-686-2600

Church-Audio · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2008, 01:11:31 PM »

Quote from: nameloc01 on February 12, 2008, 01:06:25 PM

What i know is the engineer at the stow,ohio office clearly stated the u853 come with a mini xlr..because..again..they were designed for 3w. He stated adding anything to or taking anything off of them at all voids the warrantee. He did use the word "period" so if you are looking to argue that call them yourself...1-330-686-2600

I will agree if you promise to always have that picture on your profile

Church-Audio · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2008, 01:19:49 PM »

I just got off the phone with Jim Walker service manager for Audio Technica USA he said and I quote.

"That replacing a connector on any Audio Technica mic does not void the warranty as long as your not dumping 110 volts into it or anything"

I knew this because I have dealt directly with Jim in the past. So that is the final word from AT.

I dont think it really matters in the grand scheme of things but its important to know that this will not void your warranty.

Chris

nameloc01 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2008, 01:22:25 PM »

Believe me that is a bad picture of her. I'll agree if you do. ps. They said any mod would have to be honored by the modee..a.t. will not warrantee any altered cables,jacks,plugs, bodies/capsules.

nameloc01 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2008, 01:24:03 PM »

Hmmm. Thats not what they are telling me here.

Church-Audio · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2008, 01:32:31 PM »

Quote from: nameloc01 on February 12, 2008, 01:24:03 PM

Hmmm. Thats not what they are telling me here.

Well they are wrong Jim is the service manager he is the one responsible for all warranty enforcement for AT USA. Give him a call

Almost every company out there that makes mics and lav mics offers a mic with bare ends.. The reason for this is to be able to wire up your own connector because there is no standard. Now some of the people at AT think that replacing a connector is a "mod" I dont. Its a necessary evil to adapting a product to a wireless transmitter. Something that gets done every day. AT can tell if a product has been damaged because someone hooked it up wrong. That would NOT be covered under anyones warrenty.

Javier Cinakowski · « **Reply #20 on:** February 12, 2008, 01:49:16 PM »

I don't seem to be getting along very well with nameloc01 (i never did play well with others!),

BUT, his picture does deserve a T+

Church-Audio · « **Reply #21 on:** February 12, 2008, 04:34:41 PM »

Quote from: mshilarious on February 12, 2008, 04:11:52 PM

Speaking of company support, a while back I had a product manager at Korg who liked my mics. So he recommended them to a client for the MR-1, and I asked him what was the power spec on the MR-1's inputs (they are balanced input, so it's not obvious what Korg may have done). Actually I asked twice, and never heard back

So if anybody can fill me in, I'd appreciate it . . .

Not alot of power at 3 volts!....
"A switch selects the input gain range between mic or line level. A second switch applies 3.0V microphone plug-in power. Input impedance, specified as 10 kilo-ohms, actually appears to be closer to 100 kilo-ohms for both the line and mic modes."

Church-Audio · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2008, 07:57:01 PM »

Quote from: mshilarious on February 12, 2008, 05:43:57 PM

Quote from: Church-Audio on February 12, 2008, 04:34:41 PM
Not alot of power at 3 volts!....
"A switch selects the input gain range between mic or line level. A second switch applies 3.0V microphone plug-in power. Input impedance, specified as 10 kilo-ohms, actually appears to be closer to 100 kilo-ohms for both the line and mic modes."

What's the source for that? Mic impedance can't be 100K, the supply resistor has to be a lot less than that.

Anyway, 3V across tip and ring is a lot better than just one or the other, at least from my perspective . . . but that doesn't mean that was what they did

I think the boneheads were not using a real impedance meter to measure the impedance

They must have measured the dc resistance

John this was the source.... http://www.proaudioreview.com/pages/s.0035/t.8221.html