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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: ae35unit on June 21, 2014, 11:08:16 PM
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Hey folks,
Back around the 2000-2003 timeframe I used to tape a lot of shows - mainly with DPA 4021 > Lunatech V3 > DA-P1.
Been cleaning the garage lately, came across a bunch of old DATs and have been listening to / transferring them to my computer all week.
Kinda gave me the taping bug again - I've got a few gems that I simply recorded with a pair of Core Sound Binaurals > Sony PCM-M1. The DPA / V3 rig sounded fantastic, but what a headache! Gobs of batteries, mic stands / mounts, labeling/organizing boxes of DATs ...
I was just thinking that having a setup similar to the CSB > Sony PCM-M1 rig again would be fun and relatively hassle-free compared to the DPA/V3 rig. Then it occurred to me that people probably don't use DAT at all anymore and things would be very convenient with a recorder that went direct to SDRAM or Compact Flash media.
So, my question is - if you already had experience with and liked CSB mics, what's the modern digital recorder of choice for something like CSBs that have a 1/8" mini jack connector? What's the modern Sony D8/PCM-M1?
The priority here would be keeping things simple / hassle-free and choosing a recorder that generally yields good results and has good usability for live recording.
I've done some Googling, but if there's a consensus favorite recorder I'd like to know about it!
Oh, and I looked over at the Core Sound site - I've enjoyed their other products over the years, but I'm shocked to see that PDAudio 'product' still for sale on there since it's running on discontinued HP PDAs that kinda sucked even when they were current, 10 years ago. In the iPhone age do people still even bother with the acronym PDA!?
Thanks!
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Sony PCM-M10 is the new deck to get...
You might get some recommendations to get some Church Audio mics, but "buyer beware"... Look for a used set that fits your needs, or another seller (naiant???)...
Terry
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As a longtime CSB user, I'll second the M10 recommendation. It's easy to use, has great quality inputs, and runs an insanely long time on a pair of AA batteries.
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Simple: Sony PCM-M10. 20+ hours on brand name alkaline AA's.
Coming from the DAT world, you'll want to record at 24-bit/44.1 or 48kHz depending on your workflow and you'll NOT want to set your levels the way you used to. With 24-bit, you can set your peaks around -10dB to -12dB and then boost the levels in post without worrying about introducing a bucket-load of hiss.
Hope that helps.
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Not necessarily being a voice of dissent, but in addition to the Sony PCM-M10 I would suggest you also take a look at the Roland R-05 and at least compare it. Slightly different format and controls but its preamps and build quality are on par with the Sony. While it can't compete with the M10's extraordinary battery life, it's still pretty good.
As far as some small, omni-type microphones I believe DPA 4061s were used in the high-end CSBs and they are still available. But for less than half the price, you could get a brand new pair of rat-tailed Countryman B3s and then have one of the TS cablers (darktrain, tgakidis, etc.) terminate them into a stereo pair for a small fee. Purchase a battery box to go with the mics and recorder and you're ready to tape.
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Thanks for the info folks!
Particularly, thanks for the 24-bit note, adrianf.
What a great time for low-key taping, eh? Just over $400 for a perfectly servicable taping rig with the Sony + CSB combo. No toting gobs of equipment in special bags, no mic stands, no heavy SLA batteries, no shuffling & labeling DATs or real-time DAT digital transfers!
Thanks!!
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I don't understand the "buyer beware" above about Church Audio mics. The Church Audio CA-14 omnis aren't the smallest mics in the world, but they sound mighty fine. They do take a while to arrive because Chris Church builds them himself and is constantly backlogged, but there's ample evidence (try the Live Music Archive) about how good they sound.
ae35unit, are your CSB's still working, or were you looking for new mics too? If I'm thinking of the same mics, the CSBs came with their own preamp. When you get new mics, if you're recording amplified music all you need with the PCM-M10 is a battery box like Church Audio's UBB.
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I don't understand the "buyer beware" above about Church Audio mics. The Church Audio CA-14 omnis aren't the smallest mics in the world, but they sound mighty fine. They do take a while to arrive because Chris Church builds them himself and is constantly backlogged, but there's ample evidence (try the Live Music Archive) about how good they sound.
I can't seem to find it now, but there was a thread from someone looking to borrow a preamp b/c they hadn't received their order in a reasonable time from Church... I have no issue with how well Church products perform, but issue is how spotty the customer service can be... YMMV...
Terry
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I won't argue with you about whether the Church mics sound good, you may have a playback system that pairs with them well. I will say that anytime I've recorded the same show/spot etc. with my B3s and someone else used Church omni mics, mine gets more downloads. Plus I bought the B3s unterminated, got them in the mail, mailed them to tgakidis, who put a quality angled 1/8 stereo plug on them for a nice price for me, shipped them back along with some free stickers from bands I like, all before I got a response from Church. Actually, I'm not sure he ever responded.
I don't understand the "buyer beware" above about Church Audio mics. The Church Audio CA-14 omnis aren't the smallest mics in the world, but they sound mighty fine. They do take a while to arrive because Chris Church builds them himself and is constantly backlogged, but there's ample evidence (try the Live Music Archive) about how good they sound.
ae35unit, are your CSB's still working, or were you looking for new mics too? If I'm thinking of the same mics, the CSBs came with their own preamp. When you get new mics, if you're recording amplified music all you need with the PCM-M10 is a battery box like Church Audio's UBB.
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Oh, and I looked over at the Core Sound site - I've enjoyed their other products over the years, but I'm shocked to see that PDAudio 'product' still for sale on there since it's running on discontinued HP PDAs that kinda sucked even when they were current, 10 years ago. In the iPhone age do people still even bother with the acronym PDA!?
Thanks!
That should tell you something about Core Sound. May have been a good company to deal with 20 years ago when there were not many alternatives, but IMO there is no way Core Sound Binaurals + a battery box is worth $250+ today. The Countryman B3 recommendation is a good one. Also if you don't mind waiting up to 2 months, a set of Church Audio CA-11's with both omni and cardioid caps for less than $200 shipped is a great deal. They work fine directly into an M10 even though Chris Church doesn't recommend it, or you can buy one of his tiny 9 volt battery boxes for an additional $30. I know these mics sound great for the money and you'd have the flexibility of 2 different patterns. I haven't heard the Core Sounds myself but reviews I've heard on them say basically that they are OK but that there are better options available for the money.
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I won't argue with you about whether the Church mics sound good... I will say that anytime I've recorded the same show/spot etc. with my B3s and someone else used Church omni mics, mine gets more downloads.
I didn't mean to cast any aspersions on the B3s. They sound great on what I've downloaded. Should I ever have the wherewithal they'll probably be my next upgrade.
But since you have to buy two of them and get them terminated, they are about twice the price of Church Audio. And I did point out initially that there's a wait involved for Church Audio--agreed, sometimes a considerable one. But to just say "buyer beware" without elaboration seemed overly broad to me.
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Don't suppose you still have your 4021's? If so, there are easier ways to run them nowadays, and I guarantee that will sound way better than CSB, CA-14 or B3's. All you need is a Naiant Tinybox and run that via a 1/8" miniplug connector straight into either the M10 or R05 that lots of people have already recommended (oh, and a hat and some velcro or duct tape).
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I had mine shipped to Jon (Naiant) and he terminated, shrink-wrapped etc. for me. Can't remember what he charged, but it wasn't much.
I won't argue with you about whether the Church mics sound good... I will say that anytime I've recorded the same show/spot etc. with my B3s and someone else used Church omni mics, mine gets more downloads.
I didn't mean to cast any aspersions on the B3s. They sound great on what I've downloaded. Should I ever have the wherewithal they'll probably be my next upgrade.
But since you have to buy two of them and get them terminated, they are about twice the price of Church Audio. And I did point out initially that there's a wait involved for Church Audio--agreed, sometimes a considerable one. But to just say "buyer beware" without elaboration seemed overly broad to me.
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I won't argue with you about whether the Church mics sound good... I will say that anytime I've recorded the same show/spot etc. with my B3s and someone else used Church omni mics, mine gets more downloads.
I didn't mean to cast any aspersions on the B3s. They sound great on what I've downloaded. Should I ever have the wherewithal they'll probably be my next upgrade.
But since you have to buy two of them and get them terminated, they are about twice the price of Church Audio. And I did point out initially that there's a wait involved for Church Audio--agreed, sometimes a considerable one. But to just say "buyer beware" without elaboration seemed overly broad to me.
I had mine shipped to Jon (Naiant) and he terminated, shrink-wrapped etc. for me. Can't remember what he charged, but it wasn't much.
sound professionals did mine, although Jon's price was probably much less expensive.
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Must have been tgakidis then.
I don't recall that was me. Generally, I only work on my own stuff, and I don't think I've ever seen a pair of Countrymen or DPAs.
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You asked only about a recorder (I was in your boat a few years back). The M10 is probably the best; the Roland R-05 costs less and is pretty much as good. I'd take either in a heartbeat.
When you do decide those CSBs aren't cutting it, the Countryman B3 route does work. Those things are SMALL, and while I like the 4061s very much, as noted, buying them new is pricey, and buying them as beat-to-shit Broadway mics on eBay carries risks that buying new B3s does not.
For a non-omni mic in a reasonable price range, I'd also look to AT853s aka SP-CMC-4 if you buy from Sound Professionals, or for a smaller (albeit also somewhat bass-lacking) cardiod, the SP-CMC-8 (which is an Audio Technica 943).