Topic: About to leap...R-4 PRO vs 744T

[waltmon]

...About to make the leap. Just curious if anyone had any opinions of the Edirol R4 PRO as compared to the SD 744T...

thanks alot

Walt-mon

[waltmon]

About to purchase one or the other and looking for some opinions/ comparisons

   thanks

Walt-mon

[OFOTD]

Well first off the biggest difference is about $2500.

744 Pros:
Compact design
VERY reputable manufacturer
the bright lights (sorry had to)


R4 Pro Pros:
Cost
Moddable (either Doug Oade or Busman)
Preamps on all four channels (744 only has them on two channels)
Ability to have many battery options (I get over 8 hours on all four channels WITH phantom on off of a Walmart LiON)


Those are just a few of the different pros of each box.  For me the biggest thing is cost.  That 744 box is pretty sweet but when you think that you can have the R4 Pro AND say a set of DPA's for the same price as the 744 then......

[flintstone]

The 744t is very nice, but remember:
To record 4 mics you'll need an external
mixer or preamp for two channels.  That
adds extra expense, extra weight, extra
complexity to your setup. 

OTOH, the R4 Pro works with 4 mics
without any additional gear. 

For people suspicious of Edirol gear,
it's worth noting that the R4 Pro is much
improved over the original R4.  The
preamps are different.  That said, I'd
still recommend that you buy
from Oade so you have an upgrade path
for the R4 Pro's preamps if you decide
they are not sufficiently quiet and detailed
for the material you're recording.

Flintstone

[meatling]

Another plus for the Sound Devices might be a probably better resale value than the R4. I imagine that from overseas clients you might even get more for it than you paid yourself.

To record 4 mics you'll need an external
mixer or preamp for two channels.  That
adds extra expense, extra weight, extra
complexity to your setup. 

Not only that, but -- assuming you don't bypass the 744T's preamps altogether -- you'll never get the same sound from the same signal on all 4 channels, because no external mixer has the same preamps as the 744T.

Speaking of which, Sonosax has announced a recorder just about in the same price region, but with the added benefit of 4 preamps. This might be an interesting alternative if you can wait a couple months.

m

[ford prefect]

The stock pre's on the R4 aren't too great, depending on how picky your ears are it's almost mandatory to get it modded (IMO).  I know the R4 Pro has different pre's - are they much better?  I haven't listened to anything recorded with this yet. 

it's worth noting that the R4 Pro is much improved over the original R4.  The preamps are different. 

[Nick's Picks]

i didn't know it had different preamps?

the 744 is a waste of $$ for concert taping..., says I.
but who cares what I think.  :-)

[gratefulphish]

I believe that Busman has confirmed that the pres on the R-4 Pro are the same as the stock R-4, and need to be modded under any circumstances if you are considering running mic>deck.  That being said, I have to recommend the 744.  I had an R-4 Pro, and am now running a 722 (waiting for the $ for a 744).  There is no comparison in the quality of the units.  The SD is built like a brick, and the R-4 felt somewhat flimsy by comparison.  The R-4 is also substantially larger.  There are a lot of alternate power options for both decks, so that really should not be a decision point. Yes the 744 is costly by comparison, but buy one, and you are done slutting in the deck department.  I have looked at the info on the upcoming Sonosax four channel, and for all of the bitching about the 7xx series meters (which are by leaps and bounds better than the R-4) I have no idea how Sonosax is going to show four channel metering, and time, etc. on that teeny little display.  You will need a magnifying glass to read your levels.  With the 7xx, you can read your levels from across the room.

[duch64]

gratefulphish : I saw that you recently switched from an Edirol R4 Pro to a Sound Device.

I'm thinking of buying this device -the R4 Pro- (and I probably will not be able to afford a SD or recorders in the same prices), but if the R4 Pro is not worth the money I may consider buying something more reliable (like a Fostex FR2).

So, does the R4 Pro disapointed you ?

[Shawn]

there is quite a bit of R4 vs SD 7xx discussion in this thread... http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,79068.0/all.html

I believe that Busman has confirmed that the pres on the R-4 Pro are the same as the stock R-4, and need to be modded under any circumstances if you are considering running mic>deck. 

I'm fairly certain that this is incorrect. If did find this quote from busman in the old team r-4 thread...

The R4 pro is a very good upgrade to the R4 standard. Since I have opened it up and worked on it I can say for sure this is what the R4 standard should have been to start with. The input path is much cleaner circuit wise. the shielding is 100x better than the original They use less electrolytic capacitors in the signal path. The unit has gain and trim control although the trim control is a somewhat difficult to operate.

using less capacitors, a "cleaner circuit", and more shielding leads me to believe that there are some significant differences between the pre's in the two units.

need to be modded under any circumstances if you are considering running mic>deck. 

I'm not sure if I've seen busman write this either, but in my experience it's an inaccurate statement. I ran an unmodded r-4 for 6 months without a single problem, and I know others who have run unmodded r-4s literally hundreds of times without any problems. Are the stock pre's fantastic sounding? no, but they are far from being poor enough to require a modification just to be used.

[Nick's Picks]

agreed.
I've made some excellent recordings w/a stock R4.  even better ones w/a preamp in front.


the preamps are better than the stock UA5, but not by a whole lot.  They are quiet, up until about 12:00 on the gain dials, then things get noisey.  Edirols best, still.

Stock, it sounds sort of flat.

[bgalizio]

agreed.
I've made some excellent recordings w/a stock R4.  even better ones w/a preamp in front.


the preamps are better than the stock UA5, but not by a whole lot.  They are quiet, up until about 12:00 on the gain dials, then things get noisey.  Edirols best, still.

Stock, it sounds sort of flat.

QFT. The stock pres are alright, but I will be happier once I can swing the busman mod.

[zowie]

So does anyone think it's worth my extra effort to run a SD MixPre in front of the standard R-4?

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

If you get an R4 hopefully you don't get a bunk unit like mine was.  I understand a lot of folks haven't had issues with their R4's....yet.  I was one of the first around here to get one so 18 months from now if you don't have any problems great.     HDD SLOW........  And I even got it with the new drive!  There's nothing left to change out of it!  And Edirol was no help.  Basically got sorry Charlie.  It's 18 months old they said.   No more edirol products for me though.  Ever.


Edited to add.  Not trying to bash Edirol.  I had a UA5 and loved it with my lappy.  The R4 was a constant source of grief and worry for me at shows.  Was it gonna happen or was it not gonna happen.     Just wanted to put that out there.  Never got a drive issue once in 3+ years of laptop taping. 6 times in 18 months on the R4 was enough for me.

[Ron Priest]

If you get an R4 hopefully you don't get a bunk unit like mine was.  I understand a lot of folks haven't had issues with their R4's....yet.  I was one of the first around here to get one so 18 months from now if you don't have any problems great.     HDD SLOW........  And I even got it with the new drive!  There's nothing left to change out of it!  And Edirol was no help.  Basically got sorry Charlie.  It's 18 months old they said.   

Well haven't had my R-4 very long but I did get the HDD slow error during one of my initial tests.  I was recording in the Mono x4 mode 96 Khz 24 bit (Four channel recording to four monaural files).  After contacting the place of purchase, they got back with me and suggested I download the firmware update from Edirol's site.  So after checking it out, and finding that my serial number did match the number with the affected drives I downloaded the firmware upgrade, installed it and haven't had any repeats of the HDD slow error.

So I have to ask, did you accomplish the firmware upgrade?  If so are you saying you still had problems after upgrading the firmware?   In what mode are you recording in when you got the HDD slow errors, or did it not make any difference?

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

My unit was nowhere near the serial number range.    Mine happened  doing  2xstereo  24/48 or 24/96.  Never ran mono.  And I never tried the firmware upgrade mainly do to the gaps in files it introduces and since the firmware couldn't be undone I didn't wanna do it if my problem still persisted.  It said this was to correct the 4xmono hddslow issue so I figured it wouldn't work for me. Maybe it would have though. Just couldn't believe a new drive couldn't solve the problem.  Leads me to believe Edirol has more than just a bug here.  Other than the drive slow thing the deck was really nice.  I was just tired of the "what if" thing.

[OFOTD]

So that we're not mistaken here Mark had a regular R4 and NOT the R4 Pro which DOES NOT suffer from the HDD Slow issue.

Just wanted that fact out there as the thread title is R4 Pro vs 744T

[Ron Priest]

So that we're not mistaken here Mark had a regular R4 and NOT the R4 Pro which DOES NOT suffer from the HDD Slow issue.

Just wanted that fact out there as the thread title is R4 Pro vs 744T

Good Point

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

You are correct sir.  I had the regular R4.  I guess I was more upset by Edirol's response to me than anything else so I wanted folks to be aware of their product support, etc.

[BayTaynt3d]

(an r4 needs...) to be modded under any circumstances if you are considering running mic>deck.

I totally disagree, there's plenty of decent stock R4 sources out there. As mentioned previously, a huge factor for sound quality on a stock R4 is about using as little pre as possible (which isn't a bad idea for anyone with any gear). This is accomplished through picking a good combination of mic-in/line-in and pad/sensitivity on your mics. With experience, I rarely ever need to put the gain past 12 'o clock (or even 11 for that matter). The R4 pro makes this even easier b/c it has seperate gain/trim knobs -- which is very nice. Anyway, just decided this thread needed a different perspective on that front.

YMMV of course, and tapermark's experience is a good example of that, cause that obviously sucked...

[OFOTD]

You are correct sir.  I had the regular R4.  I guess I was more upset by Edirol's response to me than anything else so I wanted folks to be aware of their product support, etc.

I wasn't trying to bust your balls Mark I promise. 

I posted some info in the Team R4 thread about a recent experience I had with support for the R4 and R4 Pro.  It appears that you can get direct support from the Roland Systems Group.  I had a great conversation with the lead tech over there, Ted Rosen.

I believe that the stick units do sound good on their own for the price point that they sell for.  But (you knew there was a but) there is alot to be said about the mods being done on both units.  I really do feel like once Doug Oade modded my R4 it sounded better than the 7xx boxes.  I feel the same way with my current Oade modded R4 Pro.

Again there is so much info regarding both boxes that you'll go crazy reading all of it.  Pros and cons.  Just count me as a satisfied R4 and R4 Pro owner.

[Ron Priest]

Again there is so much info regarding both boxes that you'll go crazy reading all of it.  Pros and cons.  Just count me as a satisfied R4 and R4 Pro owner.

Pardon my in inexperience  on this board, I'm pretty new here.  How do I find the "Team R4" Thread?

[OFOTD]

Again there is so much info regarding both boxes that you'll go crazy reading all of it.  Pros and cons.  Just count me as a satisfied R4 and R4 Pro owner.

Pardon my in inexperience  on this board, I'm pretty new here.  How do I find the "Team R4" Thread?

Always happy and exciting to add new members/owners to Team R4.

Here is the latest Team thread:     http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,83100.0.html

[Ron Priest]

Always happy and exciting to add new members/owners to Team R4.

Here is the latest Team thread:     http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,83100.0.html

Wow, thanks.  Looks like I got a lot of catching up to do.