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Gear / Technical Help => Post-Processing, Computer / Streaming / Internet Devices & Related Activity => Topic started by: tapeworm48 on April 12, 2018, 10:20:54 AM

Title: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: tapeworm48 on April 12, 2018, 10:20:54 AM
anyone have any best practices they use when mastering an acoustic show?  i taped a show with a solo performer, acoustic the entire night. standing crowd on a flat floor, small venue.  the crowd in between songs is louder than the music ever gets.  cardioids 8' from overhead speaker. 

should i normalize to the crowd noise? or normalize to the music, and let crowd clip?
i have access to audacity for editing software.

any other thoughts pointers?  in the past all i have done is clap removal, occassional hard limiting. 

thanks.
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: Ronmac on April 12, 2018, 10:26:20 AM
I cut the audience clapping and ambiance between songs to a separate stereo track, allowing you to compress and limit as required. Mix it together with the music track and print.
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: Gutbucket on April 12, 2018, 10:48:34 AM
Personally I can't stand clipped applause, and set my levels based on that when the music is lower in level.

If you want to make the effort to reduce the level of the applause between songs, doing so can makes for a better listening experience.

Ronmac's method of doing so is a good one.
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: capnhook on April 12, 2018, 10:57:11 AM
I always envelope the applause down, and up again, with well-designed ramps.

Very natural sounding when you get the knack.  :headphones:
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: Gordon on April 12, 2018, 12:00:51 PM
I always envelope the applause down, and up again, with well-designed ramps.

Very natural sounding when you get the knack.  :headphones:

this.  then raise overall gain.
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: perks on April 12, 2018, 01:08:01 PM
I always envelope the applause down, and up again, with well-designed ramps.

Very natural sounding when you get the knack.  :headphones:

this.  then raise overall gain.

I think what I'm doing is achieving the same ends thru a slightly different approach. For the applause that is truly during the breaks between songs I just use the Click and Crackle repair tool to compress that noise down to below the peaks of the musical parts. For applause that is happening during the music I try to compress just the individual claps to keep the remaining musical portion free of compression. Then once I've gotten all the clap spikes down below the peak levels for the music I normalize as I would typically do. I can certainly hear the compression during the between song clapping however its much more pleasant than having my ears blown up by the enthusiastic audience when I'm listening back. For the parts where the clapping and music are intertwined I really do not hear the compression by using it sparingly on the individual claps alone.
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: rocksuitcase on April 12, 2018, 01:46:42 PM
Similar approach here: in Audacity I highlight the applause, then do a hard limit to -9.999 (-10 is max) moving on to each piece of applause then export the file, then often I do the same process again. after that, I raise the overall levels to -.2 (some do -.5 or -1). For bands/songs which the clapping is during middle of the music, this is NOT what I would do.
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: tapeworm48 on April 12, 2018, 02:15:04 PM
thanks everyone for the input. 

i think i've been doing something similar to perks's approach.

as an example, here are my notes from another acoustic show.  i used click removal with the following settings at specific spots where there is a loud clap near the mics (tedious, but necessary).  and then use compressor in between songs to reduce the amplitude and harshness of the rise in crowd noise. 

any thoughts on whether 'click and crackle' is less noticeable during the listening experience, or easier to execute ?  or alternative options?  i may mess around with 'hard limiter' too but in the past i've only used it sparingly.


Click Removal:    Threshold - 110
      Spike Width - 40
Compressor:   Threshold - -14dB
      Noise Floor - -60dB
      Ratio - 5:1
      Attack Time - 0.1s
      Decay Time - 2.0s
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: Sloan Simpson on April 12, 2018, 05:56:02 PM
I'll parallel compress to bring the music up, limit the applause down to the peak level of the music, and move on.
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: vanark on April 12, 2018, 08:48:42 PM
I always envelope the applause down, and up again, with well-designed ramps.

Very natural sounding when you get the knack.  :headphones:

this.  then raise overall gain.

This.
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: Walstib62 on April 14, 2018, 09:55:24 AM
I always envelope the applause down, and up again, with well-designed ramps.

Very natural sounding when you get the knack.  :headphones:


This method is very easy and natural sounding. Best approach I have used yet.
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: ilduclo on April 14, 2018, 09:59:45 AM
I always envelope the applause down, and up again, with well-designed ramps.

Very natural sounding when you get the knack.  :headphones:

mr hook is CORRECT!
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: opsopcopolis on April 15, 2018, 10:23:17 PM
I just limit the ever loving fuck out of it (setting my thresh about at the upper limit of the music) aaaand done. I can usually hear fades before/after songs and I find the total change in dynamics a little disconcerting. Clapping is louder than quiet music, so I'll let it stay that way to a certain extent
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: Sloan Simpson on April 15, 2018, 10:47:27 PM
I just limit the ever loving fuck out of it (setting my thresh about at the upper limit of the music) aaaand done. I can usually hear fades before/after songs and I find the total change in dynamics a little disconcerting. Clapping is louder than quiet music, so I'll let it stay that way to a certain extent

Same here
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: nulldogmas on April 16, 2018, 12:34:42 AM
I just limit the ever loving fuck out of it (setting my thresh about at the upper limit of the music) aaaand done. I can usually hear fades before/after songs and I find the total change in dynamics a little disconcerting. Clapping is louder than quiet music, so I'll let it stay that way to a certain extent

Same here

I prefer dynamic compression above a certain threshold to hard limiting, but otherwise basically the same principle here.
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: rocksuitcase on April 16, 2018, 01:38:54 PM
I just limit the ever loving fuck out of it (setting my thresh about at the upper limit of the music) aaaand done. I can usually hear fades before/after songs and I find the total change in dynamics a little disconcerting. Clapping is louder than quiet music, so I'll let it stay that way to a certain extent

Same here

I prefer dynamic compression above a certain threshold to hard limiting, but otherwise basically the same principle here.
I know we have gone over this dynamic compression thing many times- do you have a TS thread and/or link for "simple" instructions to use dynamic compression? I'd like to try it.
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: ilduclo on April 16, 2018, 01:54:48 PM
depending on who the artist is, I could do it and give you a conceptual plan for future shows, maybe others could try, you could compare results?
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: nulldogmas on April 16, 2018, 03:17:33 PM
I know we have gone over this dynamic compression thing many times- do you have a TS thread and/or link for "simple" instructions to use dynamic compression? I'd like to try it.

I do not, and the exact instructions are going to vary depending on your editing software. The basic principle, though, is the same: Pick a threshold (which in this case will be the peak level of most of the music), and above that change the "slope" of the input/output ratio. Something like a 3:1 ratio is usually good for reducing stray outliers like especially loud snare hits, and you can go even higher than that if all you're doing is reducing loud claps.

Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: rocksuitcase on April 16, 2018, 03:48:10 PM
I know we have gone over this dynamic compression thing many times- do you have a TS thread and/or link for "simple" instructions to use dynamic compression? I'd like to try it.

I do not, and the exact instructions are going to vary depending on your editing software. The basic principle, though, is the same: Pick a threshold (which in this case will be the peak level of most of the music), and above that change the "slope" of the input/output ratio. Something like a 3:1 ratio is usually good for reducing stray outliers like especially loud snare hits, and you can go even higher than that if all you're doing is reducing loud claps.
Thanks, as I typed it and hit post, I thought to add the software I use (Audacity), but then thought there was some basic conceptual aspects to it which I would like to know. That is what you described- THANKS!
Title: Re: Advice on mastering an acoustic show
Post by: opsopcopolis on April 16, 2018, 05:41:12 PM
^ Just look it up on youtube or something, there's an abundance of how to videos on compression/limiting/any other processing you could ever want.

I also tend to like Sound on Sound articles for good quick explanations