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Gear / Technical Help => Playback Forum => Topic started by: Jason B on January 21, 2004, 07:35:57 PM
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Guys,
I need someone to coach me through my first purchase of a mono block tube setup. Any takers?
Thanks!
-JB
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You're welcome to have it shipped to me and I'll check it out for you to make sure it sounds OK ;D
What kind of help do you need?
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What kind of help do you need?
Pretty much a total schooling on tube pre's and amp's. Explaining everything like I was a 3 yr old. I am in the market and need to know what to look for, what to get, integrated, stereo, mono block etc, etc.
Interested in helping me out? Are you pretty knowledgable on this eqiupment? Thanks!
-JB
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www.audioasylum.com is about as good as it gets Jason
I would really rather get some info from people here. I appreciate the link Mike, I would just rather not step into a audiophile forum asking stupid newbie questions.
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Easy.
Monoblock tube setup = two tube amps, one for each channel. You would still need a preamp.
-- Look into some of the Audio Electronic Supply products (produced right here in Cary, NC). It is the "budget" division of Cary Audio.
Tube setup = one two-channel tube amp and one preamplifier.
-- Rogue Audio makes affordable choices in this area. Conrad-Johnson has a budget like under some other brand name that also looks good. Audio Research products are amazing.
Integrated tube amplifier = one unit, comprising the preamp and a two-channel amplifier.
-- JoLida is a popular brand.
Something that works very well if you can't swing the $$$ for an all-tube system is to use solid-state amplifiers and a tube preamp.
Keep in mind that you do not need as much power with a tube amp as with a solid-state amp. While a watt is a watt, a tube amp will "play" about four times as loud as a solid-state amp. In other words, a 25W tube amp will sound like a 100W solid-state amp.
There is a wide price range, but you will pay more for tubes than for solid-state. You can get a low-power JoLida tube integrated for like $500 off ebay or spend tens of thousands on an Audio Research setup.
Upgrading your speakers will make a much greater difference than will purchasing a tube amp.
What is your budget? What speakers are you using with it? What is your source (CD player, soundcard, etc.)?
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Monoblock tube setup = two tube amps, one for each channel. You would still need a preamp.
-- Look into some of the Audio Electronic Supply products (produced right here in Cary, NC). It is the "budget" division of Cary Audio.
Tube setup = one two-channel tube amp and one preamplifier.
-- Rogue Audio makes affordable choices in this area. Conrad-Johnson has a budget like under some other brand name that also looks good. Audio Research products are amazing.
Integrated tube amplifier = one unit, comprising the preamp and a two-channel amplifier.
-- JoLida is a popular brand.
Thanks Jamie. Well, this stuff I already know. I guess I am trying to figure out which companies that produce less expensive tube pre's and power amps are of good quality, and worth the money. Also, what pre will go well with that amp.
I am currently looking at an Antique Audio Labs ASL AQ1003DT. I have recently placed an order for som Axiom Audio m22ti's. I have read glowing reviews of this speaker and am extremely excited to hear it. It is a very efficient speaker as well.
What are some companies that have a moderately priced line of equipment? Antique Sound Labs seem to make excellent gear, and have a few models that are reasonably plriced.
This will all be played back from a Tascam DA-20 MKII / up-coming SACD/DVD-A player (undecided) > Apogee Mini DAC > tube pre/amp/integrated (undecided) > Axiom m22ti's.
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Why don't you head down to Audio Advice on Highway 70 and see what they have to say?
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I have thought about that, but I don't know if those guys work off of commission, and how willing they would be to spend any length of time talking with me, when I have no intentions of purchasing from them specifically.
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Jason,
Glad someone else has found value in the audio direct manf. like Axiom, Ascend, Onix, etc. They offer great value and sound. Have you heard the Axiom line before?? I susect you have if going with tube gear, very good choice for the speakers as they tend to be a little bright for me. Wih tubes I'd bet they sound (use a popular reality show word) amazing. What I've found nice about tubes (currently don't own any) is that you can change out the tubes to slightly alter the sound. I've found tubes have thier own sonic signature if you will. I'm sre you already know, but tubes will change over time. Good luck in the hunt, but if you can swing it...Audio Research is where it is at!
SC
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is that you can change out the tubes to slightly alter the sound. I've found tubes have thier own sonic signature if you will.
Yes. The Antique Audio Labs integrated amp I am looking at comes with sets of Svetlana and Electro Harmonix tubes as well as the stock ones.
-JB
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I've had some great pre's, but my fav' was actually a vintage peice. Dynaco PAS-2, mine came with the original telefunken 12ax7 tubes and it was just plain sweet, literally as good as other new tube pre amps I had auditioned, I mainly used it for LP transfers of quadraphonic recordings. The circuit topology is what most modern tube amp manufactures use as a basis for their designs. One caveat, make sure you get a factory built unit, they were also sold as kits, though I have seen some of the kits built by audiophiles with pure silver point to point wiring, pretty nice!
As far a tube amps go, not much has changed in the last 40 years. But buy two older McIntosh monoblocks and you have an investment in your sound with as good or better quality than todays amps. When you want something new years down the road and you sell them you'll at least double your investment instead of losing 50% to depreciation.
my$.02
peace, chris
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I just picked up a BAT VK-60 & while it's my first tube amp I must admit it is very sweet. It is only rated @ 60wpc & does have less impact than the McCormack I used to have. The DNA-1 was rated at 185 & there is definitely a loss of impact but the midrange, OH MY GOD.
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I owned a pair of Golden Tube Audio SE-40s. Single ended 40 WPC stereo amps that you can run in bridged mode as 90 WPC monoblocks. These were a cult classic in the mid-90s, and I LOVED them. Driving a pair of ESL-63s, I just couldn't stop listening all night, even with crappy sources. If they're still going for $300-400 used they're a great bargain.
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But buy two older McIntosh monoblocks and you have an investment in your sound with as good or better quality than todays amps.
haven't noticed a lot of Mac stuff on teh used market... what do their older monoblock tube amps go for?
tubes are a long way off for me but I sure do like window shopping!
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You can find a ton of used Mac stuff on Agon or some of the specialty used Mac shops online. Normally the used mono's run from $1,000.00 per amp & up.
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Other tube amp companies to look into..
- Rogue audio: the older m120 monoblocks are 120w and pretty reasonable in price. just replaced this year by the m150, so they are still pretty new
- Manley : they make real nice stuff. the "stingray" integrated is highly regarded (by my dealer, who doesnt even sell them), and very sweet to the eye as well.
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I run a Jolida 302a, which feeds into my Klipsch speakers...
sounds alot better than you would think...
if you try the klipsch forum, you will see that some guys over there mod vintage tube amps. You buy one on ebay, have it shipped to these guys, who mod it and clean it up, and they send it to you. You could get an integrated this way, delivered to your door, for around $500
used Klipsch can put you back $350 and up, but they are big, so you might want to find those locally (otherwise shipping could run you a bill....
let us know what you end up doing...
you could
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FYI first thing to do with a Jolida 302a is replace the SED EL34's with Electro-Harmonix fat-bottle 6CA7's (another name for EL34, but don't get the EH EL34), and upgrade the Sovtek 12AX7WA's to one of the hundreds of better options.
I have no idea why SED EL34's have gained recognition in audiophile circles. They are a guitar amp tube, designed to offer enhanced Mullard-like coloration as an effect, not a good thing at all for hi-fi. The EH 6CA7's are a much more balanced tube. I've compared several EL34's in my Audio Innovations S500 (integrated 25W/ch Class A), including Mullards, SED's, and EH's, and the EH 6CA7 was a stand-out among the new production models and a revoltingly good value.
This is the type of thing that makes it so hard for tube newbies. The difference in performance and longevity varies so widely between tube brands, even between different vintages of the same tube model from the same factory. Learning the properties of different microphones is about 1/10th as inconsistent and intangible as learning about tube gear. It can be a lot of fun, or a very expensive source of frustration, usually a bit of both.
The Jolida recommendation is a good one though.